Arizona Nurse's License Threatened by Doctor After Providing pt education - page 11

the email and arizona state board of nursing casethis is a (must read) e-mail that was passed to me from echo heron. @echoheronauthor hello ms. heron, my name is amanda trujillo. i'm a registered... Read More

  1. Visit  kcmylorn} profile page
    I think there are some states in this country, Arizona being one of them, an RN needs permission to put her car key in her own car. That nurse was not reported to the board for entering a case managment referral. There are too many states in this country that an RN- any RN( be that RN a diploma, ADN or BSN or MSN or NP or DNS or what ever degree) DO NOT need a doctor's order to enter a case managment referral!!
    That nurse has an MSN after her name.! For which she is NOT a student in. There are no generalist tracts for the MSN degree. One either gets an MSN in Administration, Education or Clinical, and there are multi sub areas under each one of those 3 areas. She had to have taken a 'speciality tract' in one of those 3 areas to earn herself an MSN!! It's not the same as earning an BSN- go to school for 4 years and, viola!! get a nursing degree aka a "generalist" degree. the BSN is a generalist degree in nursing. As a BSN, one is not a specialist in any of the nursing specialties. A nurse may work on med/surg unit for x #number of years but that nurse is NOT a specialist in med/surg with just a BSN.!! There is no general MSN- therefore that nurse would enter a MSN- clinical spec or NP- acute care.
    lindarn likes this.
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  3. Visit  anonymousandy} profile page
    Does anyone have information regarding the specifics of her education? If indeed she exclusively discussed perioperative issues, then she's in scope, but if she talked about the procedure itself...that's a violation. Right? I don't think enough information has been made available, but it's still concerning.

    If the supplemental material involved the surgical procedure itself, why was the hospital assigning the nurses to deliver them to patients? Is it a system problem? I hope I never find myself in a similar situation...
    lindarn likes this.
  4. Visit  dzadzey} profile page
    This is why nurses MUST unionize.
    Zombi RN, Nurse80sbaby, KelRN215, and 4 others like this.
  5. Visit  kcmylorn} profile page
    This is a case of a physican with a big ego, with the hospital AND nursing administration( shame on them) backing the physician. Why- because that physican brings in the money- the nurse( any nurse for that matter) doesn't. I remember hearing this mantra way back in the 1990's- how much the doctors bring in the money. They bring in the patients and us nurses don't. Then way back then, we were so sick of hearing it, one of our Union leaders( that's when people had more guts to speak out, and 'freedom of speech' was still part of the American landscape) decided to take it to the public poll in the local newspaper. We were a small community hospital( remember them). We knew our frequent flyiers as well as we knew our own family. Sometimes we didn't have to look( yes, paper charts) up their histories. We knew them off the top of our head. As it turned out- some of the patients were coming to that hospital( there was another swankier hospital within 5 miles) because they had a favorite nurse at that hospital. Needless to say that shut administration up! Yes, the doctors admitted the patients, but the patients were willingly admitted for their favorite nurse to be assigned to them during their stay.

    Patient satisfaction surveys would have worked well back then- the hospitals were smaller, more personal, the community knew the nurses because the nurses were there for so long. The patients lived in that community, raised their families in that community and died in that community.The patients had an attachment to the nursing staff. i guess they called that- 'engaged"This engagement crap today administration keeps shoving down the workers throats today, ain't never gonna happen. All the factors necessary for it to happen are gone, long gone. A pipe dream of administration - one of many.
    morte, smoke over fire, and lindarn like this.
  6. Visit  Anxious Patient} profile page
    There is a great discussion about this incident on a doctor's forum. Lots of fireworks between the docs and nurses. If you're interested:
    lindarn likes this.
  7. Visit  Diegoseesnurses} profile page
    I am currently on the verge of getting into an Accelerated BSN program and have no hospital exp. but from an outsider point of view this is a very sticky situation. Do hospitals have different guidelines for stuff of this nature? I would've thought that being a patient advocate is one of the functions of a nurse.
  8. Visit  NRSKarenRN} profile page
    I've been reading this case with great interest and listened to an interview of Amanda about her BON case. She had accepted a position in home health after getting termed from Banner that didn't work out resulting in the Supervisor and her quarreling, words were exchanged: In my opinion, that's what caught the boards attention to request a psych eval.
    Amanda's Radio Interview on RNFMRadio


    Donna Cardillo RN has an interesting take on this case in her blog:
    Could What Happened to Amanda Trujillo Happen To You??

    I could see this happening to myself for I've advocated regularly for patients putting in phone calls requesting homecare, hospice or social work evals AND have had surgery held up on 2 occasions when I declined to sign witness surgical consents on night shift as patients did not understand complications or post surgical care as part of standard nursing practice under hospital standards and BON regs in PA.
    Advocating for and educating patients is one of our top priorities after patient assessment.
    Last edit by NRSKarenRN on Feb 28, '12
    lindarn and VICEDRN like this.
  9. Visit  WoosahRN} profile page
    For those that feel that she overstepped her bounds that is your opinion and you are entitled to that. And yes, there are two sides to every story and details that we may never know. That said, can anyone here really think that she deserves to have her license removed or threatened for this? That is my take on it. No patient harm came of this, no medical error has been reported. To me, this case does not justify the things that have happened to this nurse as a result. Amazes me that a doctor can kill a patient (many examples but let's just take the MJ case for one) and is able to continue to practice not only during the investigation but also after being convicted of wrong-doing. There are many doctor errors that we don't hear about because insurance and quiet mediation has already dealt with it all while the dr continues to work (and possibly never has to even make an appearance). We are humans and we do make mistakes but it always amazes me that doctors have so many people to back them up and nurses are on their own. Part of the problem is this....we are sitting around judging whether what she did was ok or not. We as nurses are shooting ourselves in the foot. If we don't support each other how in the world do we expect others, including a BON, our nurse manager or a hospital board, to support us?
    SE_BSN_RN and lindarn like this.
  10. Visit  kcmylorn} profile page
    Does anyone know if this patient is still alive?
    Isn't it a criminal offense to deny a patient the right to speak to hospice if they request it?
    SE_BSN_RN, ProArizona, and lindarn like this.
  11. Visit  dishes} profile page
    According to Amanda Trujillo's response on whitecoat, the patient is alive and will be summoned during the legal phase, see #15 Amanda Trujillo | WhiteCoat's Call Room
  12. Visit  canoehead} profile page
    Quote from Diegoseesnurses
    I am currently on the verge of getting into an Accelerated BSN program and have no hospital exp. but from an outsider point of view this is a very sticky situation. Do hospitals have different guidelines for stuff of this nature? I would've thought that being a patient advocate is one of the functions of a nurse.
    Used to be. Now you need to be a hospital advocate, talk up the hospital services and your coworkers so patients feel good about their stay. Patient advocacy comes in so long as it doesn't cost profits.
    nursehomesupplies and lindarn like this.
  13. Visit  kcmylorn} profile page
    this should answer the question as to why this entire farce is happening. i remember posting "someone knows someone" between hospital, dr transplant and the az. bon. i believe i gave the suggestion of "golf buddies". and a bang on response to my comment was "follow the money" well here it is- the money trail dr transplant, hosptial and bon and az nursing association. this makes me ashamed i'm an rn. and i don't live in az. never been there.

    excerpt taken from :amanda trujillo | whitecoat's call room
    "when two nurses complained to the texas medical board that a physician was trying to hock herbal medications to hospital clinic patients, they were fired and prosecuted for criminal acts. the texas nurse's association became outraged, established a legal defense fund for the nurses, and fought for them. in the end, the doctor was the subject of a complaint by the texas medical board, and the hospital at which the nurses worked was fined for firing the nurses.
    why isn't the arizona nurses association taking any action on amanda's behalf? i might have an idea.
    it so happens that the president of the arizona nurse's association, teri wicker, is also the director of professional practice at banner del e webb medical center - the same hospital where amanda trujillo used to work. has anyone asked her for comment?"

    my question is- has any one questioned her( this teri wicker) ethics?
    SE_BSN_RN, tewdles, and lindarn like this.
  14. Visit  kcmylorn} profile page
    Since Amanda is criticized for the way and the intials after her name. Why is this person allowed to change credentials

    Ray Kronenbitter, RN, MSN, PCCN
    Director of Governmental Affairs
    Arizona Nurses Association

    The RN,MSN designation is the same degree as Amanda's neither are students in a master's of nursing program, Both have completed and earned the Masters degree. The PCCN designation is a certification in critical care nursing- CCRN is - critical care nursing(ICU,CCU, MICU,SICU - spending x number of hours in a certain amount of time practicing in that area of nursing and taking a American Association of Critical Care Nurses certifiction exam- don't have to be a BSN, MSN or DNS. Do have to be an RN. PCCN is the Progressive Care certification- stepdown, telemetry- again don't have to be a BSN, MSN or DNS, do have to be an RN)

    This same person above in another letter signed their name
    Ray Kronenbitter, RN, MN,FAAN. no 'S' for Science, and FAAN designating a fellowship)
    Director of Governmental Affairs
    Arizona Nurses Association

    I believe Amanda signed her name correctly Amanda MSN, RN. and the person above has incorrectly signed their credentials. - as the degree is supposed to be before the license( MSN,RN) indicating that you can take someone's license from them, but you cannot take their educational degree from them.
    Just a thought.

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