Aide Sucks Medicine Out Of Patient's Pain Patch - page 5

CUMBERLAND, Md. -- A West Virginia woman has been convicted of neglect after she admitted removing a nursing home patient's time-release pain patch and sucking out the medication. Megan Oglesbee,... Read More

  1. by   AKAKatydid
    I'm not going to get into any argument about legalities... Duragesic patches are legal, and are under strict control.

    We had a patient not too long ago admitted for an overdose from chewing on her husband's fentanyl patch. It is lethal.

    BTW, interesting thought, to cut them up before disposal. Never thought about this - great idea!
  2. by   jerseyboy
    Quote from EricG
    I am not advocating, agreeing with, nor partaking in the merits ~or~ lack thereof of legalizing illicit or prescription drug use/abuse but in order to educate some who have posted re: meth and the absurdity of it being produced by pharmacuetical co's, please search the drug Desoxyn.
    Hi EricG
    Not quite as absurd as one would think, is it? I would imagine there are few, if any, explosions when manufactured in the proper manner by professionals.
    Thanks for your response
  3. by   jerseyboy
    Hi EricG,
    Not quite as absurd as one would think, is it? I would imagine that there are very few, if any, explosions when manufactured in the proper manner by professionals.
    Thanks for your response.

    p.s. I am having trouble getting my posts to cross over, so I apologize if they come across more than once.
  4. by   kbrn2002
    [
    Please be aware that "used" patches (the ones you take off of people after the three days) still have enough fentanyl gel in them to be attractive to users -- the Federal DEA (and, probably, your state DEA) expects you to document wasting them the same as any other partially used dose of narcotics (witnessed and signed for by two people). Also, putting them in a sharps container is NOT considered appropriate/adequate disposal -- the preferred/acceptable methods are to either 1) cut the patch in half (so that the gel will be washed out/diluted) and flush down a commode or 2) secure in a locked container (not a sharps box) until they can be taken away to be incinerated.[/QUOTE]

    WOW! I've been pulling patches off for ages and never thought about disposing of them. We just toss them in the garbage. I think I'll mention this to our DNS and see about changing our policy to comply with proper narcotics disposal.
  5. by   elkpark
    WOW! I've been pulling patches off for ages and never thought about disposing of them. We just toss them in the garbage. I think I'll mention this to our DNS and see about changing our policy to comply with proper narcotics disposal.
    Please (everyone) also note my other original point -- it's not just the physical disposal of the patch that is an issue, it's also a matter of accounting for the used patches. The hospital I investigated ended up in serious trouble with the Feds over the rules about controlling narcotics because the patient died of an acute fentanyl OD and the nurses couldn't account for what had become of the used patches (and, therefore, couldn't prove that the patient hadn't been able to just pick up used patches and ingest the remaining gel) -- no documentation :uhoh21: .

    The Federal DEA (and, probably, your state DEA -- my information came from my state DEA, in the course of the death investigation) expects you to document disposal of the used patch the same as you would half a tubex of Demerol or an Oxycontin tablet that got dropped on the floor -- witnessed by two people (the "waster" + a witness), and documented in your narcotics log or Pyxis (wherever you document other narcotics wastage).

    The rules require that you think of (and treat) a used fentanyl patch exactly the same as any other partially used dose of a narcotic. I'm not trying to be a know-it-all or nag -- just pass on some useful information. This is something that many people (and facilities) don't really think about until the doo-doo hits the fan (as it did for the hospital I investigated), and then it's a little too late. Trust me, you do NOT want to be in trouble with the Feds over problems with narcotics control!
  6. by   Blackcat99
    Thanks so much elkpark for this valuable information.:hatparty: I will make a copy for my DON too.
  7. by   snowfreeze
    Hmmm, Manor nursing care...I have heard bad things about them so maybe they are not too selective with hiring practices. This kind of stuff makes the good people ie the bedside care givers who really care.. look bad.
    Remember not all the chinese restaurants have cat carcasses in their dumpsters.
  8. by   FurmanGirl
    jerseyboy,
    First of all, my intentions. As a pre-nursing student, I hadn't heard of this. I was trying to get this information out for those who don't know, and as we will be supporting wellness, ways to stop it. It's regulated for a reason, it's illegal for a reason. I wasn't posting it for a discussion of the legalization on drugs, but how to help and watch out for people like this, they need help also. And you're absolutely right, you can have the right to post whatever you want, whenever. And alcohol, though I agree the drinking age should be lowered, for many reasons I wont' go into here, is legal if you are of a certain age and abid by certain rules (no driving, public spectacles), besides, some alcohol has actually been shown to be, well, for lack of a better word, healthy (one glass of red wine a night). It's a completely different issue.

    Yes, I personally disagree with you. My problem is that your posts don't seem to be helpful, nor do they seem to be positive. As far as talking about minorities, how's this? I live in a small southern town, where every belief I hold dear is in the minority. I'm an atheist, feminist, AND democrat. I think our sex ed should be comprehensive, I thought more should be done to prevent domestic violence, etc., etc., etc. I DO know what it's like to be in the minority and I don't think it should be silenced. But as you said, it is a discussion board, and only a discussion board. If you feel so strongly, I hope you're also out there lobbying and sending letters to your senators, anything you can to spread knowledge about your issues. That's what I do. I don't try to persuade the few people that might happen to read my opinions on a nursing site.

    What I meant and should have said about having time is that I choose my battles wisely, and for some people, there's no use in arguing b/c the other won't listen anyway. I honestly felt it a waste of time. You want to talk credentials?? I have a BS in Biology from a private liberal arts school that is consistenly ranked among the top in the nation. I've always been in the top as far as acadmics. AS far as WPM, I'm probably around 100. As far as reading slow, you really shouldn't chastise me for taking to the time to understand and speculate every point before organizing my arguments. Not to mention you shouldn't attack people with learning disabilities, who are ALSO a minority. You don't know anything about me.


    As far as being a sensible person, you completely lashed out at me as a person to make your opinion and intelligence more worthy. That's not the way to gain respect, especially for you opinions. For the record, I think that YOUR opinions are misguided. But as a said before, we agree to disagree. While you are more than welcome to post your opinions here, I just choose not to read them.
  9. by   chicago bsn 2005
    i kinda think drug use is all over. and people would be more likely to get help if it wasn't illegal. dosages would be more controlled too - maybe safer? but mostly, i think people would eventually be more likely to get help when they're in trouble if it didn't mean outting themselves, for being a "deviant" or doing something illegal they could lose their jobs, among other things, over. also, mainstream social pressures of how to handle drug use appropriately could be improved. shunning other humans like lepers shouldn't be our main approach. in the past, i've found most people using "drugs" to be very secretive. the rest of us go unaware until their problem is out of control. it is sad. they are alone. and resorting to desperate measures. i thought i was being careful, always tossing narcs in the sharps bins. i will make sure i squirt every last drop out now first. i'd hate to think i was contributing to someone else's misery.
  10. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from chicago bsn 2005
    i kinda think drug use is all over. and people would be more likely to get help if it wasn't illegal. dosages would be more controlled too - maybe safer? but mostly, i think people would eventually be more likely to get help when they're in trouble if it didn't mean outting themselves, for being a "deviant" or doing something illegal they could lose their jobs, among other things, over. also, mainstream social pressures of how to handle drug use appropriately could be improved. shunning other humans like lepers shouldn't be our main approach. in the past, i've found most people using "drugs" to be very secretive. the rest of us go unaware until their problem is out of control. it is sad. they are alone. and resorting to desperate measures. i thought i was being careful, always tossing narcs in the sharps bins. i will make sure i squirt every last drop out now first. i'd hate to think i was contributing to someone else's misery.
    Actually, the stigma against drug use is pretty much gone since most folks of the baby boomer generation and younger have at least tried illegal drugs. You ARE stigmatized if you make a judgment about drug users however so the stigma has done a 180.

    We had a meth mom give birth to a baby with IUGR recently and we had to speak of our anger in quiet tones and preface it with "I'm not judgmental" . . . . . . . if they are treated like "lepers" it is only in secret quiet conversations.

    There is very little left to keep people from using illegal drugs except the law against using illegal drugs. In my town, we all know who uses, who manufacutures or sells. No one is "secretive" about their drug use that I know of. Well, except maybe nurses or aides who suck meds from patches.

    In other countries that have tried decriminalization or legalization, drug use has soared. The last bastion for most folks was taken away and they decided to try it. Then they get hooked.

    Making the drug legal does nothing to the pathophysiology of the drug that makes people become addicted. Changing the definition doesn't change the outcome. People get hooked.

    The alcohol argument is the horse that escaped from the barn . . . . . no way to go back and no excuse to let the other horses out.

    Plus I personally find it immoral for our government to be in the business of making drugs more available.

    steph
  11. by   Jerico
    Quote from GLORIAmunchkin72
    Some of those patches are moist from sweat. HOw disgusting...
    Not just that, but I cannot IMAGINE putting my mouth on ANY patient.....

    OMG I think I am going to barf.
    :chuckle

    Well...unless it was..perhaps..Russell Crow?
  12. by   elkpark
    In other countries that have tried decriminalization or legalization, drug use has soared.
    Do you have sources to support that? Because that's not at all what I recall hearing and reading over the 20 years I've worked in psych and substance abuse. What I am used to hearing/reading is that there is a small "bump" up in usage in response to the change in the laws, but the usage rate then quickly goes back to what it was. Even if rates went up in the European countries that have decriminalized some drugs, their rates of usage are still well below ours, so one can hardly argue that our approach is more effective ...

    Prohibition was a dismal failure for ETOH, and, so far, IMO, it's been a dismal failure for other psychoactive substances, as well.
  13. by   toddy36
    Have you ever walked out of work with a pill in your pocket that a pt wouldn't take due to pt in x ray...or refused.. or something to that nature??? Do you know that is a felony class 4??

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