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Accused nurse must stay in jail



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No. 20
from PaulW
Old Mar 11, 2009, 09:06 PM

Default Re: Accused nurse must stay in jail
Originally Posted by lamazeteacher View Post
This comes from my post:
No mention of what references the parents had for hiring this nurse, and the reason why she was told not to give him any meds, makes me suspect that they had misgivings about her at the getgo. The newspaper article said she was licensed. Did anyone verify that, and whether there were dings in her record?
http://www.licensepa.state.pa.us/Det...se_id=1040002&
Apparently there ARE "dings" but you need to email ra-prothonotary@state.pa.us for more information. Maybe the family never asked for further information.
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No. 21
from Lotte
Old Mar 12, 2009, 03:30 PM

Default Re: Accused nurse must stay in jail
Maybe she has a disciplinary action because she is in jail? I'm not clear - has she been in jail since 2006?
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No. 22
Old Mar 12, 2009, 05:13 PM

Default Re: Accused nurse must stay in jail
Okay first this judge should not be presiding over this trail. He is biased. Yes it is his job to interpreatethe law and apply it but it is not his job, to pass judgment, that is a job for jurors unless this is a bench trial. And, with the judge already obviously biased, that is of course lead to biased trail, and the judge will sway the jury.

Second, the layer should ask for and be granted a change of venue.

Third, I personally think the parents did it and this nurse is a scapegoat. I mean how many pts has she killed before or after this chile? Remeber she had still been practing up until the time of her arreast. She wasn't the child's normal nurse, so unless she is a psyco, she would have had no reason to atempt to murder the child. The parents or even the regular nurse may have. Also, think about why the parents hired a nurse? If the nurse didn't give meds, and her oly job, was to repositions, and do ADL's, why pay for a nurse. That can be handles by an HHA, a CNA, or any untrained or unlicensed person for a lot less money. So, why did they spring for a nurse in my opinion, because nurses give meds. And if they planned on killing a child, they would need someone who specifically had training in that area, and not just a HHA, or CNA. And it was just is normal nurses luck to have called in that night, or she would have been the scapegoat.

And lastly, last time that I checked first degree murder requires intent, and premeditation. Unless the DA wants an acquittal or a mistrial he should reduced the charge, because there is no way non-biased jury could find this woman to have had intent, to kill this child, that she didn't know, before hand,unless she has done it before.
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No. 23
from Atheos
Old Mar 12, 2009, 05:19 PM

Default Re: Accused nurse must stay in jail
Originally Posted by Dream_Nurse2b View Post
Okay first this judge should not be presiding over this trail. He is biased. Yes it is his job to interpreatethe law and apply it but it is not his job, to pass judgment, that is a job for jurors unless this is a bench trial. And, with the judge already obviously biased, that is of course lead to biased trail, and the judge will sway the jury.
Bias doesn't qualify as a valid reason for dismissal of a judge from a case.

Second, the layer should ask for and be granted a change of venue.
Can't see how this will hurt.

And lastly, last time that I checked first degree murder requires intent, and premeditation. Unless the DA wants an acquittal or a mistrial he should reduced the charge, because there is no way non-biased jury could find this woman to have had intent, to kill this child, that she didn't know, before hand,unless she has done it before.
No need for intent. All sorts of things qualify. The heinousness of a crime, special circumstances, etc... The DA may have evidence we aren't privy to. Which is why you are supposed to wait for all the evidence before judging guilt or innocence.
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No. 24
Old Mar 12, 2009, 06:43 PM

Default Re: Accused nurse must stay in jail
Originally Posted by Jolie View Post
Stanley,

You raise some valid points, but I still disagree. Big surprise there

At least 2 things work against the defendant by being kept in jail awaiting trial. One, she is not able to fully participate in her defense. Of course she can be deposed there, but that is a very tiny part of building a defense, especially in a medical case where the lawyer is not likely to be knowledgable about nursing care, standards of practice, policies and procedures, disease processes, etc. The defendant has demonstrated a minimal flight risk. Even if she were kept on house arrest, she would have access to telephones, computers, journals, textbooks, visits from co-workers to assist in developing a defense. None of that is available to her (to the same extent) from a jail cell.

Secondly, by being forced to remain in prison, she looks guilty to the general public which will make up the jury pool. And despite the burden of proof, we all know that perceptions matter. She has surendered her license and poses no threat to the public health and safety of Lancaster, PA, or anywhere else.
Would you have it that all those accused of first degree murder be free on bail?
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No. 25
from Jolie
Old Mar 12, 2009, 09:14 PM

Default Re: Accused nurse must stay in jail
Originally Posted by hypocaffeinemia View Post
Would you have it that all those accused of first degree murder be free on bail?
No.

Admittedly, we are trying this case on the BB based upon information from popular press news articles.

But this information (available in the other thread:http://allnurses.com/nursing-news/de...se-350198.html presents no solid evidence of any wrongdoing on the nurse's part, ample reasonable doubt and evidence of the nurse's stable living situation in the community. I do not understand, even after reading the judge's explanation, how he reached the decision that a 1st degree murder conviction is a reasonable outcome, which is the criterion for denying bail.

If there were eye witnesses to the nurse's actions, evidence that the nurse had diverted morphine or a significant risk of harm to the community, I could understand and support the order to remain in jail.

In a case with purely circumstancial evidence, and very little of that, it is not reasonable.
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No. 26
Old Mar 12, 2009, 09:25 PM

Default Re: Accused nurse must stay in jail
Originally Posted by Jolie View Post
No.

Admittedly, we are trying this case on the BB based upon information from popular press news articles.

But this information (available in the other thread:http://allnurses.com/nursing-news/de...se-350198.html presents no solid evidence of any wrongdoing on the nurse's part, ample reasonable doubt and evidence of the nurse's stable living situation in the community. I do not understand, even after reading the judge's explanation, how he reached the decision that a 1st degree murder conviction is a reasonable outcome, which is the criterion for denying bail.

If there were eye witnesses to the nurse's actions, evidence that the nurse had diverted morphine or a significant risk of harm to the community, I could understand and support the order to remain in jail.

In a case with purely circumstancial evidence, and very little of that, it is not reasonable.
I am not in a position to say whether or not the decision to deny bail was legit. I was just calling you out on your reasons in support of bail: to build a defense and to not appear guilty to society. Those two are things that should be extended to all accused, not just those whose profession happens to be the same as ours.
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No. 27
from Jolie
Old Mar 13, 2009, 07:55 AM

Default Re: Accused nurse must stay in jail
Fair enough, but rest assured my indignation at this woman's continued presence in jail is not based upon her profession. If there was substantial evidence of her guilt or her danger to society, I'd be beating the drum to keep her there, nurse or not. Probably even more so, because of her profession.
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No. 28
from Atheos
Old Mar 13, 2009, 08:22 AM

Default Re: Accused nurse must stay in jail
Originally Posted by Jolie View Post
Fair enough, but rest assured my indignation at this woman's continued presence in jail is not based upon her profession. If there was substantial evidence of her guilt or her danger to society, I'd be beating the drum to keep her there, nurse or not. Probably even more so, because of her profession.
Oh? So you have evidence that you are withholding from the defense and prosecution concerning her guilt or innocence??



You are making a judgment based off of news reports. There may be substantial evidence that hasn't been released to the public. In fact, the police and prosecutors routinely hold evidence back during pre-trial periods as a means of catching the perpetrator.
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No. 29
from Jolie
Old Mar 13, 2009, 08:29 AM

Default Re: Accused nurse must stay in jail
She's already caught, Stan. What remains to be determined is whether or not she is the perp. We are to presume that she is not, unless and until proven otherwise.

I realize that the prosecution may have evidence we are not privvy to. Like I said, we are trying this case on the BB based upon popular press news articles, which is, admittedly, an unwise thing to do.
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