50,000 visas for foreign nurses! Is this really a good thing for us Americans? - page 2

I just read about these new immigration laws passed in the senate and I'm wondering what the changes will mean for us Americans as far as finding and keeping a job goes. I don't have anything... Read More

  1. by   Jessy_RN
    Quote from sunnyjohn
    Pick one!! lol


    :deadhorse

    :smiley_ab

    :redlight:



    :flamesonb

    HOw cute, LOL....love it
  2. by   Kabin
    I agree Marie, it's our problem and, in the long term, we need to fix it without relying on short-sighted fixes that may sacrifice patient safety in other countries. Now there's a nursing irony.

    And as long as there's career advice being given, maybe those that complain that their working too hard need to reconsider whether nursing is there best career choice.
  3. by   smk1
    are the nurses being required to work in "underserved" areas or will they be flooding the market in areas with no true shortage? As a student this is a bit concerning but i don't know enough about the issue to have an informed opinion.
  4. by   fergus51
    Quote from SMK1
    are the nurses being required to work in "underserved" areas or will they be flooding the market in areas with no true shortage? As a student this is a bit concerning but i don't know enough about the issue to have an informed opinion.
    I don't believe the government can force immigrants to settle in one area. Part of being a free country means people get to decide for themselves where they want to live. I would be extremely concerned if the government started mandating nurses to work in a certain area.
  5. by   Tweety
    Quote from BeachNurse
    True..
    How many times have we heard American nurses complaining about the low pay, etc.? If you don't like it, leave it. And let someone do it who wants to.

    Yeah, heaven forbid we use our power to change things. Let's just hire foreign workers who are greatful for the low pay and poor working conditions.
  6. by   Tweety
    Quote from fergus51
    I don't believe the government can force immigrants to settle in one area. Part of being a free country means people get to decide for themselves where they want to live. I would be extremely concerned if the government started mandating nurses to work in a certain area.
    I think they are recruited to hospitals that want them, rather than a certain geographical area, but I'm sure they get to choose where to live based on the job availability. Of concern was the hospital, was it in Virginia(?), that hired foreign workers despite having American applicants, under the guise they wanted experience. I'm sure this isn't a common practice, but if I was a new grad, I'd be a bit wary. Also that there are waiting lists of Americans who want to become nurses is a big concern and should be a priority in addition to the filling the immediate needs.

    As a descendant of immigrants, I certainly don't advocate for not bringing immigrants to America, that's what we are all about. The need for nurses and future nurses is critical. Fairness and equality for American workers first and foremost, however.

    I guess rather than improving conditoins, etc. and improving education, it's cheaper to hire foreign workers. Other businesses have the same problem with outsourcing. It's about economics.

    O.K. now, I've gone into beating the dead horse mode, but I was just trying to see things from the perspective of a new grad or the pre-nursing student on the waiting list. :hatparty:
    Last edit by Tweety on May 5, '05 : Reason: typos
  7. by   Jessy_RN
    Quote from Tony35NYC
    I just read about these new immigration laws passed in the senate and I'm wondering what the changes will mean for us Americans as far as finding and keeping a job goes. I don't have anything against foreign nurses, but can we seriously be civil if we find ourselves competing against them for jobs in areas where the labor market for nurses is tight? I mean, 50,000 is not a small number.

    According to one senator's spokesperson (who evidently doesn't have a clue about what's really behind the nursing "shortage"): "The shortage our hospitals are facing is coming close to epidemic proportions," said Chris Paulitz, spokesman for Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison (news, bio, voting record), R-Texas. "Americans are not getting the health care they deserve but are dependent on. We limited this to 50,000 existing visas not being used to be used for nurses."

    The article contains a lot of other unrelated political stuff, but if anyone cares to read it, here it is.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050504/...NlYwMlJVRPUCUl
    I LOOK AT IT FROM 2 DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEWS:

    1). IT SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD IDEA IF IT RELIEVES SOME STRESS AND WORK LOAD FOR THE CURRENT OVERWORKED NURSES.

    2). WHAT IS THIS IS NOT TEMPORARILY AND LOOK AT IT AT THE "SAVING MONEY" PROSPECTIVE. THEY WOULD RECRUIT NURSES FROM OTHER COUNTRIES WHO WOULD BE WILLING TO WORK FOR A LOT LESS MONEY...... JUST GETS ONE THINKING.
  8. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Quote from Marie_LPN
    And leave the dangers and the hazards rampant that's commonly associated with the low pay.

    No, thanks, i'd rather stay here and do something about it, instead of running away, or telling others to.
    THANK YOU! That old "love it or leave" thing is really not the answer! We or our loved ones are going to need care one day and I ask those with this attitude: who wants to leave it to low-paid and unhappy workers to care for us or our loved ones? I can't believe any nurse would say this is the answer. :angryfire
  9. by   NRSKarenRN
    Quote from JessicaGmz
    THEY WOULD RECRUIT NURSES FROM OTHER COUNTRIES WHO WOULD BE WILLING TO WORK FOR A LOT LESS MONEY
    US labor laws prohibit this...must offer same salary US nurses make to foreign nurses with equivilent experience and training. Several facilites have paid $$$$ fines over this issue.
  10. by   suzanne4
    Look closely at this bill............Notice that it is preceded by H-_....these are temorary work permits only, not permanent residency status. Bad thing....
    It has the same requirements that the nurse needs to land a green card, Visa Screen Certificate and the full set of English exams that goes along with it.
    The nurse literally belongs to the agency or hospital...........if they do not like one another they only have a certain number of days to find someone to sponsor them, or they have to leave the country.................these contracts are for only two or three years, and many times cannot be renewed.

    Since the nurse would not have permanent residency status, yes, they can be paid a smaller salary................and most fo the time they are......The company only needs to pay the same if they have permanent status in the US, not here on a tempoary basis.

    I am very much against these visas, only suggest/recommend that the nurse comes to the US with a green card, doesn't try short-cuts, or they only get the royal screw in the end...............
  11. by   begalli
    One thing, as others have pointed out, is that many of these foreign nurses are leaving horrendous working conditions and anything is an improvement. The problem I see is that the nurses will be so grateful for this perceived improvement and think everything's just dandy when in fact, everything's NOT dandy.

    I see this now with some US nurses who come to work with us from other states. Just the other day I took report from a nurse who handled, to the best of her ability, a ridiculous assignment. During report, she said to me, "remember, I worked in Florida where we had 3-4 intubated patients at the same time!" Within the first 15 minutes into the shift, I let it be known that the two patients assigned to me needed to be split up into two separate assignments with two RNs and that's exactly what happened. The Resource nurse got the critical care crisis nurse to the unit to take one of the patients until another staff RN could get there. Neither of these patients received proper care for 4 hours prior to my arrival because SHE DID NOT SPEAK UP. She just "dealt" with it because "it was even worse in Florida and at least this is better." That's so wrong.

    Women of many cultures are not encouraged to "rock the boat." I respect that, but I'm afraid they will just take the dangerous staffing. I'm not saying that my unit took advantage of the RN in my story, but our Nurse Managers rely upon us telling them what the patient's needs are so they can staff appropriately. She did not speak up and they did not know what was happening.

    In states that don't have staffing laws (all others except CA), I feel that a lot of foreign nurses will just take it and as long as one nurse goes along with this, it diminishes the stance of other nurses fighting for patient and nurse safety. We have more than enough of this at home already, we don't need any more of it.
  12. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Quote from begalli
    One thing, as others have pointed out, is that many of these foreign nurses are leaving horrendous working conditions and anything is an improvement. The problem I see is that the nurses will be so grateful for this perceived improvement and think everything's just dandy when in fact, everything's NOT dandy.

    I see this now with some US nurses who come to work with us from other states. Just the other day I took report from a nurse who handled, to the best of her ability, a ridiculous assignment. During report, she said to me, "remember, I worked in Florida where we had 3-4 intubated patients at the same time!" Within the first 15 minutes into the shift, I let it be known that the two patients assigned to me needed to be split up into two separate assignments with two RNs and that's exactly what happened. The Resource nurse got the critical care crisis nurse to the unit to take one of the patients until another staff RN could get there. Neither of these patients received proper care for 4 hours prior to my arrival because SHE DID NOT SPEAK UP. She just "dealt" with it because "it was even worse in Florida and at least this is better." That's so wrong.

    Women of many cultures are not encouraged to "rock the boat." I respect that, but I'm afraid they will just take the dangerous staffing. I'm not saying that my unit took advantage of the RN in my story, but our Nurse Managers rely upon us telling them what the patient's needs are so they can staff appropriately. She did not speak up and they did not know what was happening.

    In states that don't have staffing laws (all others except CA), I feel that a lot of foreign nurses will just take it and as long as one nurse goes along with this, it diminishes the stance of other nurses fighting for patient and nurse safety. We have more than enough of this at home already, we don't need any more of it.
    Exactly right.
  13. by   Tony35NYC
    Quote from suzanne4
    ... they can be paid a smaller salary................and most fo the time they are......The company only needs to pay the same if they have permanent status in the US, not here on a tempoary basis.

    Thank you. This is partly where I was coming from with my original post. I know for a fact that some hospitals do this because I've seen it happen to a nurse who was a good friend of mine from the Caribbean. She came here on an employment visa under contract to work at this particular hospital shortly before the visa clamp down after the 9/11 incident. The hospital hired quite a few of them at lower salaries, and then they got rid of the agency nurses, a few reg staffers, and the per diems. Then they worked the new hires half to death, but some of these nurses were so grateful for the opportunity to come here to work that they didn't complain about the terrible assignments and conditions.

    I never understood (until I read your post) how they were able to get away with replacing existing staff with lower-paid foreign workers because I thought this was against the law. According to what I heard from my friend, the terms and conditions of the visa are very restrictive, and although she wanted to leave she couldn't just quit and go apply for a job somewhere else. Breaking the terms of the employment contract for any reason would be grounds for immediate deportation, unless she found another hospital that was willing to sponsor her. (Fortunately for her, she eventually did.)

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