50,000 visas for foreign nurses! Is this really a good thing for us Americans? - page 14

I just read about these new immigration laws passed in the senate and I'm wondering what the changes will mean for us Americans as far as finding and keeping a job goes. I don't have anything... Read More

  1. by   madwife2002
    Quote from lizz
    Not necessarily.

    I am a CNA and a nursing student and, according to this board, every RN would treat me badly, be totally rude, and eat me alive ... because that's what's routinely posted. Has that actually happened to me? No. Could it happen? I guess so, but I haven't seen it.

    When people are treated well ... be it by employers, RN's, whatever ... they don't post it because, well .... it's not as interesting or dramatic.

    That's not to say these bad things never happen either. But, I do think you get a distorted picture on this board because, pretty much only the bad things are posted ... kinda like the news tends to report crime and other extraordinary events. It actually happens in a small number of cases but, that's what's reported because it's more interesting and out of the ordinary.

    Very interesting, I guess if we all posted good things we would live in an unrealistic world. On the other hand it does no harm to be prepared.
    Thank you for your comments and views.
  2. by   ptadvocate81
    Tony,
    I don't know where you live or where your friends are applying for jobs, but I know in my city in Texas (population about 200,000) there are 2 nursing schools that put out about 200-300 nurses each May and December and finding a job in one of the three hospitals here is never a problem. I work with a lot of nurses that work in both community hospitals. One hospital just brought over 50 nurses from the Philipenes to work for 2 years and that has done nothing but helped the shortage here. I think that as long as they are competant and accepting of our culture here, bring them on. Today the U.S. is 400,000 nurses short and it is predicted that by 2020, we will be 1.2 million short. These nurses are indeed just a bandaid...
  3. by   desperado8156
    when you are stretched out and overworked, burnout eventually takes over. I guess admin wants to make the most bang for their buck, and instead of keeping adequate staff, just increases the work for the rest of staff til they find replacments. I see too much turnover in my dept, that means the rest of us take up the slack in the dept. Some days there isn't time for ANY break. Even lunch is rushed and cut short, because we are still dedicated to our patients
  4. by   desperado8156
    filipino nurses are hard working and dedicated. I'm NOT one, but I know many of them.

    they want the same as you and me,,, a job and pay. It isn't their fault that americans want too much, it is our fault. When you point a finger at someone else,, three other fingers on that hand point at you
    "Don't fear them, work alongside them"
  5. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    Want too much to have decent working conditions??? Okaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay....
  6. by   SmilingBluEyes
    I, too, find myself rather baffled at your last 2 posts, Desperado. Really, they contradict. Is it too much to ask for safe, decent staffing working conditions?

    What is it American nurses ask for that is, in your words, "too much"? Or is the American Public asking too much , e.g. the "bang for the buck" you refer to???

    Please clarify your position; I am not trying to be argumentative, I want to know what you mean to say here.
  7. by   desperado8156
    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    I, too, find myself rather baffled at your last 2 posts, Desperado. Really, they contradict. Is it too much to ask for safe, decent staffing working conditions?

    What is it American nurses ask for that is, in your words, "too much"? Or is the American Public asking too much , e.g. the "bang for the buck" you refer to???

    Please clarify your position; I am not trying to be argumentative, I want to know what you mean to say here.
    Well I'll be the first to go along with the fact that many rn,lpn have very hard situations. I am in a new wing, with many conveniences. But we are overworked with too many patients per nurse. We are overloaded where there isn't enough time to get lunch in. What concerns me alot is cutting the patients out on the time needed to do our best. My position is the same as nurses across the country see everyday of spreading yourself out, and when an emergency comes up the other patients get less. The shortage of nurses can use "quality" nurses from other countries. Thanks for your comment, I'm not trying to be argumentative either
  8. by   Liz69
    I think that none of these politicians are getting together on a global level to realise that 50000 nurses recruited in the US just creates a need for 50000 nurses elsewhere. When will the global nurse shortage be addressed reponsibly? I don't mind the recruitment of foreign staff. I think an exchange of knowledge is of benefit to all staff, but not at the cost of a local sense of stability or a major shortage created in the donor country/ies. This is not only a US issue, it effects us all.
  9. by   lindarn
    Quote from ptadvocate81
    Tony,
    I don't know where you live or where your friends are applying for jobs, but I know in my city in Texas (population about 200,000) there are 2 nursing schools that put out about 200-300 nurses each May and December and finding a job in one of the three hospitals here is never a problem. I work with a lot of nurses that work in both community hospitals. One hospital just brought over 50 nurses from the Philipenes to work for 2 years and that has done nothing but helped the shortage here. I think that as long as they are competant and accepting of our culture here, bring them on. Today the U.S. is 400,000 nurses short and it is predicted that by 2020, we will be 1.2 million short. These nurses are indeed just a bandaid...
    Just for the record, there are 500, 000 licensed, experienced, American nurses in this country who have left nursing and are no longer working in their profession. Why? Because working conditions are worse than ever, pay is at the HS drop out rate in too many communities, and the concept of respect has gone to hell in a handbasket.

    If pay, working conditions, and treatment were corrected, there would be no need to bring in that amount of foreign nurses. Unfortunately, hospitals, and insurance companies would rather have foreign nurses who will work triple shifts, take any and all abusive treatment, and work for the lowest amount of "prevailing wage", just to sent $$$ back to the old country for their indiginous, third world relatives. This is not the solution to the "nursing shortage", which by the way, is really non existent. This is a self created problem that was caused by hospitals and insurance companies, that was created for one reason only- to eliminate, as much as possible the American nursing work force. They cannot out source the "product" that hospitals sell,(patient care), so the only way to accomplish what they accomplished in the business sector, is to 'insource" the worker bees- Registered Nurses. From other countries, of course.

    And, forgive me for getting on my soap box again, but in the not to distant future, when it finally dawns on the native- born American nurses, that they have been intentionally replaced, in a carefully though put plan to eliminate the American work force, (in other words, they have succeeded in pulling the wool over our eyes, and we never noticed until it was too late), and want their jobs back, they will be told that they were replaced by a workforce that is better educated than American Nurses are, and that American nurses are under educated. Many of the nurses that are being brought to this country have BSN's, because their countries had the foresight to improve the educational leval of their workforce, and they resisted the effect of the lobbyists trying to counteract what was needed in nursing. The Filipinos, and Canadians ALL have BSNs because of the entry in to practice. We are still in the 19th Century, with no end in sight.

    Think about it- who is REALLY prevented and fighting the change to an all BSN workforce? Who is encouraging (or discouraging) nurses from pursuing a higher level of education? The hospitals, who else. Do you think that they really want nursing to advance to at least a BSN as entry into practice? Have unity? And have nurses educated who realize their worth in the workplace? (the reason that most BSN's leave bedside- because they are not rewarded for their educational accomplishments, and leave for greener pasteurs for more $$ and better working conditions, that cannot be obtained at the bedside). We, (BSN's), have been educated as to the worth of nursing, what we contribute to patient care, and to the opportunities available. They would have a nursing work force who would demand more money, as have PTs, OTs, Pharmacists have, as THEIR educational requirements have increased (they now all have a DOCTORATE as entry into practice- accomplished without the whining and complaining by nurses. They now ALL MAKE ALOT MORE MONEY THAN NURSES- THE LAST I CHECKED, DOUBLE WHAT NURSES MAKE). That is the last thing that hospitals and insurance companies want. The foreign nurses are afraid to complain, because that would mean being fired, and made to return to their own countries, in disgrace. They will not demand the higher pay, and better working conditions that American nurses demand. They will not complain about unsafe staffing situations. We are playing right into the hands of our enemies (hospitals and insurance companies) when we don't demand the ANA to increase the entry into practice educational requirements.

    Think out side the box, and LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE! This is an entirely contrived situation by the hospitals and insurance companies, to achieve a certain goal- further eliminating the American workforce. If you think otherwise, you are in la la land. I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I would be happy to sell you really cheap. It is a real steal! It is right next to the oceanfront property in Arizona!

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Spokane, Washington
  10. by   Proud to an LPN
    Quote from Tony35NYC
    I just read about these new immigration laws passed in the senate and I'm wondering what the changes will mean for us Americans as far as finding and keeping a job goes. I don't have anything against foreign nurses, but can we seriously be civil if we find ourselves competing against them for jobs in areas where the labor market for nurses is tight? I mean, 50,000 is not a small number.

    According to one senator's spokesperson (who evidently doesn't have a clue about what's really behind the nursing "shortage"): "The shortage our hospitals are facing is coming close to epidemic proportions," said Chris Paulitz, spokesman for Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison (news, bio, voting record), R-Texas. "Americans are not getting the health care they deserve but are dependent on. We limited this to 50,000 existing visas not being used to be used for nurses."

    The article contains a lot of other unrelated political stuff, but if anyone cares to read it, here it is.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050504/...NlYwMlJVRPUCUl
    I work for a nationwide company that has facilities all over the US and PR..our corp HR people actually go to India and recruit their nurses, they then pay them for relocating, pay for (and their family)airfare and first year of housing once they come here even get them furniture and items they need for daily living..Help them obtain not only a prof lisence but get them to the DMV to learn how to drive ( yet in this country we have so many homeless people because they can not get hired anywhere, but do we give them a hands up..noooooo) They get healthcare and perscriptions, as do their families..
    I can not even begin to count how many med errors I have corrected because of the language barrier, or listened to MD's totally flip out because they can not understand the nurses when they call.. WHen we get an admission on our shift, we have two MDs that will only verify their orders IF an American Nurse calls them in..Due to so many errors that have been made.
    Not only are patients suffering because of some of these nurses, but our country is also suffering !!!!!
    The bigger Corps are spending ALOT of money to bring these nurses over,,,I guess they just don't get it,,,if they put the same amount of time and money into our pockets, things would be awhole lot better for their facilities...
    Sad isn't it......
  11. by   desperado8156
    Gee, I would think that they would make the same amount no matter thay are from a different country. I guess from what I am reading they are paid less? We also have Docs that are working off their tuition bill by agreeing to work in rural areas. Why isnt part of the package in coming over here is that they must first work in certain geographic locations of need

    Quote from JessicaGmz
    I LOOK AT IT FROM 2 DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEWS:

    1). IT SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD IDEA IF IT RELIEVES SOME STRESS AND WORK LOAD FOR THE CURRENT OVERWORKED NURSES.

    2). WHAT IS THIS IS NOT TEMPORARILY AND LOOK AT IT AT THE "SAVING MONEY" PROSPECTIVE. THEY WOULD RECRUIT NURSES FROM OTHER COUNTRIES WHO WOULD BE WILLING TO WORK FOR A LOT LESS MONEY...... JUST GETS ONE THINKING.
  12. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Quote from desperado8156
    . Why isnt part of the package in coming over here is that they must first work in certain geographic locations of need
    Because of politics. Those recruiting overseas have ZERO interest in improving staffing, safety and other conditions in our facilities. It's all about saving the almighty$ to line their pockets----and those of the politician in said pockets. The American WAY!!!! :angryfire

    The "need" is not going to be truly addressed in our rural and other needy areas. That is not the intent!

    "Need" is not the motivating factor, or else we would not be taking nursing from other 'needy" areas/countries to take care of our "need" here.
  13. by   tencat
    It really doesn't matter if foreign nurses are paid the same. I imagine most often they would work for less, which keeps the wages low for everyone. If they agreed to come here but demanded more money and better working conditions, I'd bet the program would disappear in a hurry. As has been said, it's all about saving the institutions money, not about care for patients or easing of shortages. It's like the outsourcing of factory jobs. Why pay minimum wage to U.S. workers when there are workers in Mexico who will work for $1.00 an hour? I know some Philipino nurses, and they are very good at what they do. But I think that bringing in thousands of people from other countries to provide 'cheaper' labor for wealthy corporations does hurt workers in this country, no matter what the job is. JMHO.

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