2 hospitals to drop licensed practical nurses - page 8

the changes at mercy and unity hospitals are meant to improve care, but unions say the remaining nurses will be stretched too thin. all 90 licensed practical nursing jobs at mercy and unity... Read More

  1. by   LadyLesile
    As a LPN who has worked in medsurg ER I know that to do what I want I must go back to school and get my BSN .
  2. by   willtm
    I have been reading this thread from the beginning and have finally figured out what has been bothering me with most of the posts. If we all think back to the very beginning of nursing school, that first course called fundamentals and recall the intructors talking about what nursing is we will remember that is an Art AND a Science. Many of these posts fail to consider the ART part of nursing.

    I worked Thanksgiving this year. A woman came to the desk with a box in her hand and handed it to me. She said "I brought this for everyone that took care of my mother while she was here, you were one of them. Also...." She named several other staff members. She looked familiar, but I couldn't quite place her. Some time later it occured to me that her mother had been a patient in room 110. I was never asigned to her as her nurse, but one day the tech assigned to her came to me and said the daughter didn't like the way her mother was breathing and the assigned nurse was busy, would I come check. When I walked into the room I saw a woman with hair less then an inch long, her skin was very pale and her eyes were closed. Her resperations were slow and when she breathed in it was a gasp--you all have seen this type of breathing--she was dying and the daughter was having trouble coming to grips with her impending loss. I came out of the room, the daughter was crying in the hall and looked at me, I told her everything was ok, that her mother's breathing pattern was normal for her condition. I told her I was sorry and I hugged her a cried with her, as I am now typing this. Her mother passed away during her stay with us and she brought us a cheesecake to let us know she appreciated everything we had done for her and her family. I didn't need to look at a chart or a lab value, nor would having a BSN have helped---this is the art of nursing. She needed reassurance, understanding and a hug. I was never her mother's nurse, yet I made a difference--this is why I became a nurse.

    The art of nursing is equally as important as the science of nursing. The ability to assist someone using a bed pan for the first time without making a big mess is the bed is important. The ability to assist a patient with an everyday task that they have done without help all of thier lives, without feeling embarressed or helpless is important and should never be underestimated. The ability to feel another's pain and offer a kind word and a hug is so very important. These are the things patients remember about their hospital stay and the nursing staff.

    I agree that nurses should be knowledgable and educated. I was an LPN for 7 years, I recently completed a bridge program and am now an RN. I also plan on beginning an rn-to bsn program in the spring. As educated people we should have more tolorance for each other regardless of level of education.
  3. by   chicago bsn 2005
    Quote from asoldierswife05
    People become emotional when they feel that their job or an important assistive staff member's job is at stake. It's just not good business for anyone who IS involved with LPNs. With all due respect, perhaps you should stick to a thread where you can provide personal experience to pull your opinions from. LPNs take a different version of the NCLEX. So they are held to standards just like an RN....which is much more demanding than a certification, as I have held as well. Your license may not mean much to you but it does to others who hold one, including an LPN.What a horrid point of view you have. It makes me laugh and scared at the same time. You are poorly informed my friend. ADNs and BSNs spend the same amt of time in clinicals, we do all the same paperwork, and believe me it is NOT the "easy" route. The only difference is a handful of administration classes that can be taken within a one yr course. Perhaps the reason you see ADNs looking so prepared is because they ARE. Don't assume an ADN knows less than you. This is false, cocky, and will give you problems in the future. Concentrate on getting yourself together first before you cast a stone.Well, this is one of many things you don't seem to understand yet. Believe me, I work with some LPNs that can run circles around new BSN grads in most respects.

    you know, i don't appreciate the name calling from a supposed fellow professional.

    and yes, i think i already said we all value people who already have experience. my point was really regarding how i felt about the nursing educational system and where i thought it should go: as in towards requiring it be more advanced.

    and call me cocky, but a BSN with ten years previous hospital work behind her does have more knowledge than a blank slate 21 year old with an ADN. i was comparing myself to another new grad, an entirely different beast than you're taking on.

    meanwhile, obviously there is a difference between the different degrees offered in nursing or we wouldn't be discussing anything here, now would we? the ADN and BSN curriculums are not the same. the coursework is not the same if you compare getting a BSN with getting an ADN and finishing a BSN completion program.

    i can't believe i let people irritate me like this. at least i know i made you think.
    Last edit by chicago bsn 2005 on Nov 28, '05
  4. by   Sheri257
    In California, the LVN issue has also been impacted by the ratio law. You can have either one RN assigned to five patients, or one RN and LVN assigned to ten patients under the law.

    One hospital in my area has the RN - LVN system because they can save money ... obviously one RN and one LVN is cheaper than having two RN's assigned to ten patients. But, the hospital is now phasing out the LVN's because they can't keep RN's who are leaving to work across town in RN only facilities.

    Don't get me wrong ... there are a lot of great LVN's. But, the problem is when you are assigned to an LVN that's not so great. When I worked at this hospital more than one RN was upset when they'd get written up for med errors, etc. that were done by the LVN.

    It would probably be a different situation if you could pick your LVN's, and be able to work with the really good ones all the time, but that wasn't the situation at this particular hospital. When you get a bad LVN, it's always on the RN's license and the RN's don't like it.

    Also ... I think a lot of RN's just feel less stress when they have only five patients to worry about instead of ten. Even if there's more work involved with the five patients, there's still less responsibility with no LVN and five less patients to worry about.

    Last edit by Sheri257 on Nov 28, '05
  5. by   chicago bsn 2005
    Quote from willtm
    I have been reading this thread from the beginning and have finally figured out what has been bothering me with most of the posts. If we all think back to the very beginning of nursing school, that first course called fundamentals and recall the intructors talking about what nursing is we will remember that is an Art AND a Science. Many of these posts fail to consider the ART part of nursing.

    I worked Thanksgiving this year. A woman came to the desk with a box in her hand and handed it to me. She said "I brought this for everyone that took care of my mother while she was here, you were one of them. Also...." She named several other staff members. She looked familiar, but I couldn't quite place her. Some time later it occured to me that her mother had been a patient in room 110. I was never asigned to her as her nurse, but one day the tech assigned to her came to me and said the daughter didn't like the way her mother was breathing and the assigned nurse was busy, would I come check. When I walked into the room I saw a woman with hair less then an inch long, her skin was very pale and her eyes were closed. Her resperations were slow and when she breathed in it was a gasp--you all have seen this type of breathing--she was dying and the daughter was having trouble coming to grips with her impending loss. I came out of the room, the daughter was crying in the hall and looked at me, I told her everything was ok, that her mother's breathing pattern was normal for her condition. I told her I was sorry and I hugged her a cried with her, as I am now typing this. Her mother passed away during her stay with us and she brought us a cheesecake to let us know she appreciated everything we had done for her and her family. I didn't need to look at a chart or a lab value, nor would having a BSN have helped---this is the art of nursing. She needed reassurance, understanding and a hug. I was never her mother's nurse, yet I made a difference--this is why I became a nurse.

    The art of nursing is equally as important as the science of nursing. The ability to assist someone using a bed pan for the first time without making a big mess is the bed is important. The ability to assist a patient with an everyday task that they have done without help all of thier lives, without feeling embarressed or helpless is important and should never be underestimated. The ability to feel another's pain and offer a kind word and a hug is so very important. These are the things patients remember about their hospital stay and the nursing staff.

    I agree that nurses should be knowledgable and educated. I was an LPN for 7 years, I recently completed a bridge program and am now an RN. I also plan on beginning an rn-to bsn program in the spring. As educated people we should have more tolorance for each other regardless of level of education.
    you seem so very kind. and i like how you think. i'm so glad you're a nurse.
  6. by   LadyLesile
    Yes you are right nursing is an art and science. One time while I was working medsurge I was taking care of an old woman .I said to her one day I love the angles you have in your room this lady had angle dolls ect I told her that my wall paper in my hallway at home had angles on it. she had one little angle that you could hold in your hand I asked her where she had brougth the angle?Her daugther who was in the room said that she had brougth the angle at WALMART. Well the next day the told me that she had something for me, it was a little angle .I hold that angle in my hands before I go to work and pray that I will have a good day. Two days latter the old woman went in to hospice care.Right now I work in LTC but Iwant to go back and work in the ER so I will have to go back to school.One thing that makes me mad is when a nurses aide goes to school LPN or RN comes back to work and treats the other nurses aides dirty.Yes we should have tolorance regardles of level of education. And work together.
  7. by   chicago bsn 2005
    Quote from sjrn85
    chicago bsn: It comes as no shock to me that you're a new grad. I hope time and experience will temper your attitude. If you think you can do this alone, you're in for a big letdown.

    BTW, are you being precepted exclusively by BSNs? You've never had to work with a charge nurse who was a diploma RN/ADN have you?

    Nurses need uniting voices, not divisive ones, and certainly not ones who can scarcely conceal their contempt and disdain for others. All the professional degrees in the world will not get you any respect if you can't show consideration for your colleagues.
    it is disrespectful for me to voice my opinion that i think nursing should require a bachelor's degree at minimum? it's disrespectful for me to share my honest feelings on an anonymous discussion board?

    i don't believe it is. and seriously, i don't understand people responding with personal insults...when i certainly hadn't addressed anyone on this site individually.

    and i don't misbahave at work over things like this. my knowledge is meager compared to my coworkers. this is obvious; i'm a struggling new grad.

    the 'ADN' i refered to is not an actual person i work with, so don't be freaking out that i'm abusive to some nice, unsuspecting person i work side by side with. i was just making my point...if the other new grad they'd hired besides me was an ADN student, that's exactly how i'd feel: resentful. perhaps you find it upsetting, but it's true.

    times change. slowly. i don't think i'd have felt this way years ago, when there was talk of BSN programs but so few people went through them.

    i like posting. i like writing. and i like talking nursing with nurses i don't actually work. though i have two aunts who are nurses, i don't like to have such heavy discussions with them either. i am a nurse and am just as much the voice of nursing as any other nurse. i often don't post when i disagree with what most people in the thread are saying, simply because i'm not in the mood to carry on like this. for whatever reason, i felt up to it the other day.

    we might as well be talking religion in most of these "nursing" discussions on allnurses.com. it often makes me bothered. it is good for us to share information like this, but i'd certainly shy away from it in the workplace.
    Last edit by chicago bsn 2005 on Nov 28, '05
  8. by   LadyLesile
    Your personal insult to me was saying that nursing should require a bachelors degree.I work with RNs and LPNs Happy to hear you have your BSN I trust that you worked hard for your degree.But come down to earth new grad you see the longer you keep your nose in the air the harder you fall
    Last edit by LadyLesile on Nov 28, '05
  9. by   Sheri257
    Oh boy ... how did an LVN thread become a BSN debate? The LVN vs. RN issue isn't controversial enough? :chuckle

    For crying out loud. These days you're lucky to get into any program, ADN or BSN. In my area you don't have a choice because there's five ADN programs for every BSN. All of them have waiting lists and you basically go with any program you can get into, period. I suspect it's the same in a lot of places around the country.

    I wish people could give this one a rest for that reason alone.

  10. by   chicago bsn 2005
    Quote from LadyLesile
    Your personal insult to me was saying that nursing should require a bachelors degree.I work with RNs and LPNs Happy to hear you have your BSN I trust that you worked hard for your degree.But come down to earth new grad you see the longer you keep your nose in the the harder you fall.
    really? i would not find it personally insulting if they started saying they wanted nurses to have master's degrees to be considered minimially competant. i would not at all. in fact i kind of expect it in the years to come. what do you all have against education? i was not talking about experienced nurses and their job performance here.

    and i might add, i do not actually like the word "professional", i only have used it to add emphasis. i liken it to the terms "white collar" and "blue collar," being classist which i also abhor.

    i'm seriously saying, i think today's nurses need to be more educated when they come out of school. while, the art of nursing weaves it's way through everything we do, much more is required of us than offering someone a bedpan to be competant in most of our positions.

    but whatever. i will listen to the last poster and stop beating this horse, despite the fact that i find increasing educational requirements to be quite related to the elimination LPN positions.
    Last edit by chicago bsn 2005 on Nov 28, '05
  11. by   LadyLesile
    It took me over one year to start my LPN program
  12. by   lwd338
    The LPN's where I work, work right along side the RN'S we insert caths give all meds (except hanging Iv meds and blood )we do Tube feeds we change and do trach care we are involved in all kinds of skin care ostomys etc. we do diabetic teaching , documentation, pain assesments , The onley things the RN<S do that we dont do are like I said Blood, starting Iv,s andn hanging IV meds, (we change tubeing and hang dry or changed iv solution) the rns do the orders and take telephone orders telephone orders now are onley IF the MD is out of the hospital other wise he/she has to come to the floor . If my hospital got rid of all the LPN's (they tried it but it never went through most left on there own accord) the patient care woudl be disasterous I dont think they teach PT care in school anymore itis shameful to see an RN groan whenthey have an actuall pt assignment and have to wash someone or att the very least wash there back The cna,s have a 6 pt assignment and we have the best!!! but getting help from someof the RN,s is like pulling teeth.. My advice is NEVER PISS OF YOUR CNA!!! or LPN for that matter hahah!!!
  13. by   svetas
    Quote from TheCommuter
    My heart bleeds for the LPNs who will be phased out of the hospital positions as well as the RNs who will likely be spread thin as they perform the bedside duties of the phased-out LPNs in the very near future.

    It is imperative that I secure my future by bridging over to an RN program within the next one to three years.


    Hi, everybody!

    I am RN from Israel...I know where all this stuff is going to! When I worked there, RNs did all the work including changing and turnind the patients...there are no LPNs, no oter help...and now LPNs are pushed out from everywhere ...they have no choice , but to learn on there own:angryfire

    If this is the prosess here... its so SAD!!!!

    Lana

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