2 hospitals to drop licensed practical nurses - page 7

the changes at mercy and unity hospitals are meant to improve care, but unions say the remaining nurses will be stretched too thin. all 90 licensed practical nursing jobs at mercy and unity... Read More

  1. by   bmoore1973
    I think this is very sad, when i worked in houston the lvn's worked side by side with the rn's and our roles were pretty much the same except for the few things we weren't able to do as lvn's. I now work in a small hospital in north texas and the lvn's are treated like a NA and aren't able to do near the nursing care that i was trained to do in the bigger hospitals in houston.
  2. by   LadyLesile
    I know down south LPN will do a lot more than LPN in Ohio can. never understood that
  3. by   AngelsRN
    Quote from N.S.46
    My father had to be put in the hospital yesterday. The hospital he's at does not have any LPN's, they have gone to PCT's (Patient Care Technician). I asked one of them what is the difference between them & a NA. She said they do everything the LPN's used to do; tx, drsg. changes, inserting caths (that bothers me :uhoh21: ), tube feedings :uhoh21: , etc. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that.
    PCT's where I work dont do those things -- LPN's or RN's do -- the PCT's where I am do baths, accuchecks, vitals etc. but nothing like what you have described. I guess it depends on the institutional policy.
  4. by   RN34TX
    Quote from LadyLesile
    I know down south LPN will do a lot more than LPN in Ohio can. never understood that
    It's a scope of practice issue.
    Some states, particularly up north in midwestern states, can restrict LPN practice to the point of reducing them to being glorified nursing assistants who can give Tylenol and insert foleys.
    Texas has a wide LVN scope of practice and it is only the facility itself that will restrict what an LVN can do here.
  5. by   pedinurse05
    I really don't think the concept of having an all RN nursing staff in acute care is that bad of an idea. As an LPN, I always steered clear of the hospital because of the low pay and lack of respect for LPN's. I worked in LTC for awhile and then did primarily pediatric homecare. I think as the level of acuity rises that the nurse should be able to do ALL aspects of patient care...unfortunately, as an LPN one is bound by restrictions. While this concept is not widely accepted by LPN's, it is becoming a trend. LPN's do have a place in nursing...but in my opinion, I am happy to go to work and be responsible for my actions. After completing my ADN program I started work on a cardiac step down unit. We had 5 patients and had a tech for every 8-10 patients. More than once we had only one tech for the entire 45 beds--so we did total care of all 5 patients. We had no LPN's. I couldn't imagine going back and giving meds, blood, and co-signing assessments. The LPN really couldn't do much to help because several patients required IVP meds and blood (florida does not allow LPN's to spike blood). We were a fast paced unit with constant admits and discharges...again, LPN's can't do initial assessments. I refuse to co-sign assessments I did not do. I recently relocated to California where I work with an all RN staff in pediatrics. We do primary care--and it goes well on this particular floor with no assistive personnel. I don't want to co-sign any assessments or hang blood and give IVP meds for any one else. It is busy enough as it is without going around doing extra work for someone else. I am sure that there will be plenty of people who disagree and that is fine because we are all entitled to our opinion. As an LPN I really thought acute care was for RN's and still do. I waited until I was an RN before I started in the hospital.
    Missy
    Last edit by pedinurse05 on Nov 27, '05
  6. by   shodobe
    The hospital where I work eliminated the LVN position here about 5 years ago. The LVNs were given a choice of leaving or working in the new Neuro Care unit. Some left, others went to the NCU. I worked on a M/S unit, many, many years ago, and was ecstatic when we were given an LVN to pass meds. Bad move on hospitals to do away with an important part of team nursing.
  7. by   veronica butterfly
    Quote from RN34TX
    What needs to be kept in mind here is that MN has a uniques surplus of nurses, causing hospitals to have such an arrogant attitude.
    No, not true, MN does not have a surplus of nurses, everyplace is short-staffed and begging nurses to stay on for an extra shift.

    Yes, true, the hospitals have such an arrogant attitude about LPN's. I'll have my RN in May, I've been an LPN for 3 years. I wouldn't even consider working in a hospital here until I got my RN. LPN's are treated like they're half a nurse, yet they have the same acuity patients most of the time, plus make $10/hr less. Many of them have been nurses for years and did ICU and NICU back when LPN's could work those units.

    A woman I know started a med/surg job as a LPN and part of her orientation was hanging with the RN's on the Flying Squad for a day. None of the nurses introduced her as they went from room to room. Finally someone asked who the she was, and the Flying Squad RN said "oh no one, she's just a new LPN". sad sad sad sad. Needless to say it didn't get any better and she ended up quitting after a couple of tough months.

    There IS a place for LPN's everywhere!!!
  8. by   RN34TX
    Quote from veronica butterfly
    No, not true, MN does not have a surplus of nurses, everyplace is short-staffed and begging nurses to stay on for an extra shift.

    Yes, true, the hospitals have such an arrogant attitude about LPN's. I'll have my RN in May, I've been an LPN for 3 years. I wouldn't even consider working in a hospital here until I got my RN. LPN's are treated like they're half a nurse, yet they have the same acuity patients most of the time, plus make $10/hr less. Many of them have been nurses for years and did ICU and NICU back when LPN's could work those units.

    A woman I know started a med/surg job as a LPN and part of her orientation was hanging with the RN's on the Flying Squad for a day. None of the nurses introduced her as they went from room to room. Finally someone asked who the she was, and the Flying Squad RN said "oh no one, she's just a new LPN". sad sad sad sad. Needless to say it didn't get any better and she ended up quitting after a couple of tough months.

    There IS a place for LPN's everywhere!!!
    Then why are MN nurses on this BB constantly complaining that they can't find a job?
    I see it all the time and I tell them to get out but they won't leave.

    I worked as an LPN in MN for a brief period of time in the late 90's and arrogant RN attitude was rampant there.
    I couldn't even start IV's or even so much as flush a central line!
    MNA instilling paranoia into their heads that LPN's will take their jobs if you give them too wide of a scope of practice didn't help the matter of course.

    Yes there is a place for LPN's everywhere, and it looks like MN intends to literally put them in their place.
    Last edit by RN34TX on Nov 27, '05
  9. by   NurseWeaver
    I am a LPN in Indiana, and I am in a LPN to RN bridge program. I know scope of practice differs from state to state. But I work primarily Med-Surg and ICU,and on occasion ER and Mother-baby. I give blood, IVP, start IVs or foleys. I do everything that the RN working with me does. And sometimes the only RN is the charge nurse. I do my own intial assessments with a RN co-signature. The only change in my position, when I am through with the LPN to RN nursing program, will be the intials behind my name and my pay rate.
  10. by   nurse4theplanet
    Quote from chicago bsn 2005
    first, i think some people are taking things very emotionally and personally when it comes to their defense of LPN's.

    second, i've never worked with any LPN's in any hospital so i can't actually speak of their work performance from any personal experience.
    People become emotional when they feel that their job or an important assistive staff member's job is at stake. It's just not good business for anyone who IS involved with LPNs. With all due respect, perhaps you should stick to a thread where you can provide personal experience to pull your opinions from.
    however, i can not imagine entering nursing with any less experience than a BSN program. i worked for ten years in unlicensed but certified positions and by no means has that prepared me for the very different responsibilities of nursing. (and yes i understand LPN's are licensed instead of certified, though honestly after being both in the past, they seem the same: we all took some test to say we're at least marginally proficient. whooptie do.)
    LPNs take a different version of the NCLEX. So they are held to standards just like an RN....which is much more demanding than a certification, as I have held as well. Your license may not mean much to you but it does to others who hold one, including an LPN.
    i don't know. but i can't say it doesn't bother me that an ADN might get out of school and be working beside me, making the same money. when i know i've spent more blood, sweat, and tears (and money, and hours studying, and withstanding all those horrid clinical rotation hours), than they have. does it make me happier that they took the easier route? should i be proud of them? does it bring me satisfaction that they spent their clinical time learning how to do technical nursing tasks, instead of building those patho-pharm correlational clinical care maps, and now seem more able to jump right in than i am? no. in fact it's scary, i know she knows even less than i do. however, i do know i'm better off in the long run. it was a personal choice. and i know that i'm more "science" educated than most RN's as well. i know it will eventually pay off. right now i'm struggling though, still a new grad, and trying to compartmentalize and form associations between the new bits of information that constantly flood me everyday.

    What a horrid point of view you have. It makes me laugh and scared at the same time. You are poorly informed my friend. ADNs and BSNs spend the same amt of time in clinicals, we do all the same paperwork, and believe me it is NOT the "easy" route. The only difference is a handful of administration classes that can be taken within a one yr course. Perhaps the reason you see ADNs looking so prepared is because they ARE. Don't assume an ADN knows less than you. This is false, cocky, and will give you problems in the future. Concentrate on getting yourself together first before you cast a stone.
    and frankly, i'm not sure where an one year educated LPN should fit in.
    Well, this is one of many things you don't seem to understand yet. Believe me, I work with some LPNs that can run circles around new BSN grads in most respects.
  11. by   nurse4theplanet
    Quote from austin heart
    I never said that there was not a place for LVNs. I am not speaking of you but I know of at least one person that fired back a response to my post that evidently did not read it very well. I just think that the need for them will not be as great as the Boomer generation gets older and sicker. .
    You are kidding, right? As the baby boomer generation grows older more and more LTC facilities will be opened to accomodate. If history repeats itself, guess who will be the majority of the staff---LPNs my friend. Also, as the BB begin to get sicker and enter the healthcare system (Hospitals) more LPNs will be needed to assist the RNs that are ALREADY overloaded and growing fewer and fewer by the day. The need will increase not decrease. This seems like common sense to me.
  12. by   sjrn85
    chicago bsn: It comes as no shock to me that you're a new grad. I hope time and experience will temper your attitude. If you think you can do this alone, you're in for a big letdown.

    BTW, are you being precepted exclusively by BSNs? You've never had to work with a charge nurse who was a diploma RN/ADN have you?

    Nurses need uniting voices, not divisive ones, and certainly not ones who can scarcely conceal their contempt and disdain for others. All the professional degrees in the world will not get you any respect if you can't show consideration for your colleagues.
  13. by   hope3456
    Quote from LadyLesile
    I just read where the state of Ohio will have medication aides from May 1 2006 to June 30 2007 has anyone ever worked with a med aide? how long do they go to school?


    There is a very heated discussion about this subject on the LTC discussion board. (at least there was a couple weeks ago!)

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