2 hospitals to drop licensed practical nurses - page 25

the changes at mercy and unity hospitals are meant to improve care, but unions say the remaining nurses will be stretched too thin. all 90 licensed practical nursing jobs at mercy and unity... Read More

  1. by   SharonH, RN
    Quote from Sahara311
    I totally understand this.... I just graduated LPN and in our particular school, we have layover time from the day ADN program on the same units. By the time we all were about to graduate(now mind you, they are a year ahead of us in class and clinical time), they were trying to wrap their minds around caths and trachs. They had seen it in textbooks, but had never actually done it.

    Now, don't get me wrong, I only took the seat in the PN class to get around the 2-3 year wait to get into the ADN class, and i aspire to ARNP, but I totally agree that nurses should climb the perverbial nursing ladder. And actually at my CC, PCT or CNA is a now a pre-req for the RN program.

    I wonder who in the heck made PCT or CNA a pre-req for the RN program? That is an extremely bad idea.......I mean really, it can add very little of substantial value to an RN education, and it's limiting your pool of potential applicants.


    I'm really scratching my head over this one. What's the point of climbing a ladder into nursing again?
  2. by   Kelly_the_Great
    Okay, here's my :

    1st: What I think is ridiculous is that ppl can't embrace & appreciate our differences & all that each has to offer our profession. Wait, wait ! Now I understand what the problem is with the lack of unity in nursing, it's academiacentrism (why not the elites use neologisms, right???)!

    2nd: In relation to this topic, ya'll ever heard of th' term "ad nauseam"?



    P.S. I would've barfed more but when I went to submit this message it said I could only send up to 12 images...
  3. by   Kelly_the_Great
    Quote from SharonH, RN
    I wonder who in the heck made PCT or CNA a pre-req for the RN program? That is an extremely bad idea.......I mean really, it can add very little of substantial value to an RN education, and it's limiting your pool of potential applicants.


    I'm really scratching my head over this one. What's the point of climbing a ladder into nursing again?
    I don't know about PCT or CNA but, here in Texas, the competition has become so fierce to get into the ADN programs (believe it or not it's easier to get into BSN program - if you take all the pre-reqs) that many schools are recommending LVN/LPN 1st then applying through the transition route to increase your chances of acceptance. It is in essence becoming a pre-req to the ADN in many cases.
  4. by   Sahara311
    So basic nursing skills should not be stressed in an RNs education?
    I don't understand.... so do you think that it is detrimental to be a CNA prior to being and RN?
    Look, I am not trying to stoke a fire about it, i am just making some observations. I was a CNA for 2 years while going to school, and i feel that i am the better nurse for it-there are many duties I won't shirk from or pass onto the person lower on the totem pole-because it is nursing.

    I mean really, it can add very little of substantial value to an RN education, and it's limiting your pool of potential applicants.
    In Florida the waiting lists to get into the ADN programs are so long, and the teachers so short staffed, it will benefit the situation... The cna pre-req is new this next year for my CC.

    I don't know about PCT or CNA but, here in Texas, the competition has become so fierce to get into the ADN programs (believe it or not it's easier to get into BSN program - if you take all the pre-reqs) that many schools are recommending LVN/LPN 1st then applying through the transition route to increase your chances of acceptance. It is in essence becoming a pre-req to the ADN in many cases
    Exactly, FL, too.... It takes less time to do the PN then bridge to ADN...
    Last edit by Sahara311 on Jan 3, '06
  5. by   SharonH, RN
    Quote from Sahara311
    So basic nursing skills should not be stressed in an RNs education?

    Is that what I implied? (because I know I didn't state it) I don't think so....
    I haven't been in nursing school in over 15 years but as I recall, basic nursing skills were taught. Has that changed? Seriously.


    Quote from Sahara311
    I don't understand.... so do you think that it is detrimental to be a CNA prior to being and RN?



    Detrimental? No, just not necessary. I was a tech also while in college and I feel very comfortable in saying that it really did not help. I should have kept my job at the airport. Yes, I felt a little more comfortable in providing hygienic care once out of school but I would have got that eventually anyway. It just wasn't necessary and I certainly would not make it a pre-requisite for entering the program.
  6. by   SharonH, RN
    Quote from Kelly_the_Great
    I don't know about PCT or CNA but, here in Texas, the competition has become so fierce to get into the ADN programs (believe it or not it's easier to get into BSN program - if you take all the pre-reqs) that many schools are recommending LVN/LPN 1st then applying through the transition route to increase your chances of acceptance.

    Well that's different. But a pre-requisite for the reason of building on skills, I don't agree with that at all.
  7. by   Sahara311
    Honestly, I think that the pre-req is meant more for thinning out the applicant list or for bumping more applicants to the top of the list...
    Sorry to put words in your mouth. :imbar
    To me, it was very beneficial to have the experience. I was able to have better bedside manner with patients and felt more confident.
    I totally dislike this faction between the LPNs/RNs, and hope that when I am an RN that I won't carry on this tradition-as I have made it a point to treat CNAs with respect as well. (do not take this personally, I am not talking about any disrespect on this board or forum, just in general)
  8. by   1BlessedRN
    Quote from asoldierswife05
    You are kidding, right? As the baby boomer generation grows older more and more LTC facilities will be opened to accomodate. If history repeats itself, guess who will be the majority of the staff---LPNs my friend. Also, as the BB begin to get sicker and enter the healthcare system (Hospitals) more LPNs will be needed to assist the RNs that are ALREADY overloaded and growing fewer and fewer by the day. The need will increase not decrease. This seems like common sense to me.

    :yeahthat:
  9. by   Kelly_the_Great
    [/QUOTE]Originally Posted by asoldierswife05
    You are kidding, right? As the baby boomer generation grows older more and more LTC facilities will be opened to accomodate. If history repeats itself, guess who will be the majority of the staff---LPNs my friend. Also, as the BB begin to get sicker and enter the healthcare system (Hospitals) more LPNs will be needed to assist the RNs that are ALREADY overloaded and growing fewer and fewer by the day. The need will increase not decrease. This seems like common sense to me.[/QUOTE]

    Nah, they'd rather run nurses (LVN/LPN) out of it and have MAs doin' it. Afterall, it's just "mindless" technical skills. I mean, why would they want someone speakin' there own language (you know ADPIE) workin' with 'em?

    Nurses are the only healthcare profession that circle their wagons and then begin shooting EAOTHER! :angryfire

    P.S. I'm really kind of tired of hearing the "critical thinking" delineation between the 2 as well...it's called COMMON SENSE! And there are LVN/LPN that do it QD and are quite adept @ it.
    Last edit by Kelly_the_Great on Jan 3, '06
  10. by   austin heart
    I am sorry, "critical thinking" does not equal "common sense".
  11. by   Q.
    Quote from Sahara311
    Honestly, I think that the pre-req is meant more for thinning out the applicant list...
    I don't see how that would help the apparent nursing shortage. The whole argument against the BSN mandate is that too many people would not be able to get in for whatever reason. So why/how would making an applicant go through an entirely different program, before entering an ADN nursing program, be any different?

    Why not scratch the whole "go to CNA school first, then ADN school" and just shoot straight for the BSN?

    I agree with Sharon. The only benefit I can see for mandating CNA/PCT preparation before RN education is to actually have the candidate work in healthcare to know that is what they really want to do. I never worked as a CNA; I worked my way through college in various jobs that were conducive to paying bills and doing homework. And I don't think I missed out on anything by NOT being a CNA first. I learned basic nursing skills in nursing school. And no Sharon, that hasn't changed.
  12. by   Q.
    Quote from austin heart
    I am sorry, "critical thinking" does not equal "common sense".

    Agreed. Kelly the Great, are you suggesting that one only needs common sense to be a nurse, whereas our counterparts in healthcare (PT, OT, RT, pharm) all need graduate level education?
  13. by   Shellie77
    Quote from fergus51
    RNs try to protect their jobs from LPNs, LPNs try to protect their jobs from PCTs, PCTs try to protect their jobs from NAs.... and the hospital administrators just keep counting the money they save.



    This is the TRUTH!! and it is so sad but everyone is really just waiting for the other one to be obsolete. And what it all comes down to is pay. If they can get away with having an NA instead of an LPN or a PCT they will and it is most sad for the RN's who become overwhelmed and in turn patient care is compromised.

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