2 hospitals to drop licensed practical nurses - page 22

the changes at mercy and unity hospitals are meant to improve care, but unions say the remaining nurses will be stretched too thin. all 90 licensed practical nursing jobs at mercy and unity... Read More

  1. by   Loisjane
    One hospital in my area has gone to an "All RN staff" They eliminated all CNA and LPN positions. They feel it will improve care. I think we all know that the work of LPN's and CNA's is important. I have heard newly graduated nurses say that cleaning patients is not in their job description...so I ask "Who will do the physical care?" or am I missing something?
  2. by   RN34TX
    "So what if they have to look for a nurse to handle a patient care issue that is clearly out ot their scope of practice, or just not what they are supposed to do."

    I was referring to other health professions skipping out on things that are within their practice and they should be doing, but choose not to, and get by with it by simply saying "I informed the RN." They get by with it because our state boards and laws have it set up where literally everything falls under a nurse's responsibility and other health professionals can legally walk away with their " I told the RN about it" mentality.
    Example: My hospital's pharmacy is supposed to be figuring out drip rates and labeling it appropriately on every bag of IV med.
    Guess what? If they don't feel like doing it or are in a hurry, they simply don't do it, and take comfort in the protection that it is the nurse's responsibility to make sure that a med is given at the correct rate, even though a big safety net involves pharmacy properly labeling bags. It all falls on us.
    "Who is being screamed at, threatened with bodily harm, and treated like dirt by the patients and family members? Nurses. Not Doctors, Physical Therapists, Dieticians, Pharmacists, Social Workers etc. NURSES."

    Of course. Again, because everything becomes our responsibility and the others can walk away saying that they told the nurse about it and they've washed their hands of it. Are the others immune to or less likely to be screamed because of their higher educations?
    So John Doe patient and his family (who may never have set foot in college a day in their lives) have so much respect for people with higher degrees that they save all of their hostility for the lowly educated nurses, right?
    Most of your patients and their families don't even know the difference between one degree and the next but you're trying to say that having all of us get BSN's will change their perception of us and command more respect.
    We are getting screamed at and threatened because everyone else is pointing the finger at us whenever anything goes wrong while they (PT, OT, social services, etc.) walk away scott free.
    On top of that, administration supports and often rewards the threatening behavior.
    Regardless of who screwed up, the family will rage at us because everyone is directing them our way for both blame as well as being expected to resolve whatever goes wrong regardless of other discipline's involvement, or lack therof.
    Last edit by RN34TX on Dec 30, '05
  3. by   labcat01
    I don't know what else has been said in this thread (28 pages is too long for me) but i wanted to throw in my opinion. I'm a BSN hopeful but it was an LVN that nearly delivered my baby a year ago. She was a FABULOUS nurse and she did so much for our family. I just can't imagine that she was any less qualified than an RN...

    Ok- debate on
  4. by   KacyLynnRN
    I was soooooo much happier when I was an LPN. Much less stress and just happier with my job all around. I made myself go back for my RN because the hospital I work at is in a quest to get "magnet status" and has alltogether quit hiring LPN's, and the LPN's that already work there are being majorly pressured to go back to school. I am glad I have it over with, and happy to have the extra money per hour, but have been pretty unhappy with my 'new role' since I got out of school. However I am sure that, since I am only 25 years old, I will be glad many times in the future that I went ahead and got my RN.
  5. by   yayalpn
    I am A LPN right now but I know for a fact LPN's have more clinical skill hours than RN's. We had 8 hour clinicals plus class for 18 months. How many hours do RN's have to do? I have worked with some really knowledgable RN's but some just didn't have good clinical skills until after a year or two.Hopefully I will never forget what it took to become a LPN after I become a RN
  6. by   roowee
    I FEEL THAT LVNs ARE A VITAL PART OF THE TEAM APPROACH, SOMETIMES I WONDER WHAT THESE HOSPITAL WANT PATIENT CARE TO BE ALL ABOUT? IT SENDS A MESSAGE TO ALL NURSES THAT IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT WE LEARN IN SCHOOL ABOUT PATIENT CARE, AND ATTENDING TO EMOTIONAL OR PHYSICAL NEEDS- THIS CAN ONLY BE DONE IF YOU ARE AN R.N AND GET IT DONE IN 10MINS OR LESS, SO YOULL HAVE ENOUGH TIME FOR YOUR NEXT 6 PATIENTS. MAYBE WE SHOULD ALL JUST CARRY A TIMER!
  7. by   Sahara311
    It's so useless to whine about the "Nursing Shortage" and eliminate LPNs...
    We had a local hospital that tried to go ( ??I believe the term is??) Magnet, with all BSNs and above, less than a year later they show up at our GPN career day recruiting us....I guess that didn't go as planned

    I work there now
    as an LPN
  8. by   RN34TX
    Quote from Sahara311
    It's so useless to whine about the "Nursing Shortage" and eliminate LPNs...
    We had a local hospital that tried to go ( ??I believe the term is??) Magnet, with all BSNs and above, less than a year later they show up at our GPN career day recruiting us....I guess that didn't go as planned

    I work there now
    as an LPN
    My first LPN job as a new grad was on a floor that only two years prior vowed to only hire BSN's to maintain a "high quality of nursing care."

    Apparantly in two years they decided to instead settle for "mediocre at best" quality of care with the hiring of LPN's.:roll
  9. by   sayitgirl
    Quote from brian
    the changes at mercy and unity hospitals are meant to improve care, but unions say the remaining nurses will be stretched too thin.

    all 90 licensed practical nursing jobs at mercy and unity hospitals in the northern suburbs are being eliminated by next year, drawing criticism from unions that say the move is based more on saving money than improving quality.

    the coon rapids and fridley hospitals, which operate as one business, said the move to remove the licensed practical nurses (lpns) was part of a plan to put more care-giving directly in the hands of the more highly trained registered nurses (rns).

    full story: 2 hospitals to drop licensed practical nurses [minneapolis star tribune,mn]
    i am going to comment on this topic, and i apologize if i offend anyone that is an lpn. i was an lpn for ten years. i worked in various settings and i think that i was a very good one. but it was time for me to move on because i was tired of the limitations that it gave me in my career. so i became a rn. working in the medical hospital setting lpn's are limited in a lot ways, basically the rn is supervising them. i worked at a hospital that had team nursing, which was an rn working with a small group of lpns. i had to intervene when there was a problem, push iv medications, admit patients, take off orders, discuss assessment with physicans...etc. there are a lot of things that a lpn can and cannot do. i enjoyed working at the facility but i found that i rather not run around checking another nurses' work. and you have to because they are working under your license. i found that if i have to do this type of nursing that i rather just work with another rn and have a nursing assistant do bedside tasks to assist me.
    most of the lpn's that i have worked with are independent workers and really do not want to have to wait for another nurse to endorse their work. they want to go ahead and finish their tasks. i agree with lpn's being removed from the medical hospital. they can function in a wider capacity in settings that they do not have to be directly supervised; long term care, assistive living etc...i found when i was an lpn the more i drifted away from these settings the more strictly endorced the nurse practice act was. it made me feel that i was being confined to a small area of working. it was the main reason i moved on in my nursing career. lpn's that want to work in hospitals should continue their education to more utilize their skills and potential.
  10. by   RN34TX
    Quote from sayitgirl
    I agree with LPN's being removed from the medical hospital. They can function in a wider capacity in settings that they do not have to be directly supervised; long term care, assistive living etc...
    I worked as an LPN in NJ and I was not directly supervised by anyone anymore than a staff RN was.
    We (RN and LPN) both answered to the same charge nurse and nurse manager.
    The limitations in scope of practice are those placed by state boards and hospital administrations, not the LPN/LVN's themselves or in their abilities.

    For example, why is it that some states, particularly northern and midwestern states, place severe restrictions on LPN/LVN practice, such as no IV push meds, but states such as Texas have no problem with having a wide LVN scope of practice.
    At the same time, no proof or substantiated evidence of anything has surfaced as far as med errors or patient safety for states that do have a wide LPN/LVN scope of practice, yet the northern states still continue to hold on with a death grip to old fashioned and outdated ideas of what an LPN/LVN may or may not do.
    Texas has LVN's giving IV push meds every day with no problems, yet a state such as Minnesota would just as soon die before allowing LPN's to do such "RN only" functions.

    It's time to stop questioning LPN/LVN's role in the acute care setting and instead start questioning our almighty boards of nursing and whether or not THEY, not the LPN/LVN's, need to re-evaluate and re-think state laws and scope of practice issues.
    Nurse practice acts are not written in stone.
    They can, have, and in some states, should be changed.
    Last edit by RN34TX on Jan 1, '06
  11. by   rhenmag9
    much better if it will be resolved by proper communication and giving opportunities to the staffs!!! maybe its just a cost cutting...not sure... tc!!!
  12. by   sayitgirl
    You may not feel like you were being supervised, but all LPN's work under a RN's license. Some are discrete about it, while others openingly address it. It is the law;the nurse practice act. It is not something that is optional for a facility to do. There are no LPNs that work without an RN either being present in the building or readily accessible when needed. As I said before LPNs vary in their competency like RNs do, some do not need to be directly supervised. Some are more competent than the RN, but it is a law.
  13. by   RN34TX
    Quote from sayitgirl
    You may not feel like you were being supervised, but all LPN's work under a RN's license. Some are discrete about it, while others openingly address it. It is the law;the nurse practice act. It is not something that is optional for a facility to do. There are no LPNs that work without an RN either being present in the building or readily accessible when needed. As I said before LPNs vary in their competency like RNs do, some do not need to be directly supervised. Some are more competent than the RN, but it is a law.
    I agree with you in that an LPN must be supervised by an RN under state law.

    But in the real world....another story.

    I'm tired of hearing about how LPN's are "supervised" by RN's and how RN's have some "ultimate" accountablity.
    Baloney.

    In 6 years of LPN nursing, whenever a med error occured, orders weren't getting initiated or followed up, etc. it was me alone who had to answer for it and fix it, follow up on it , take the fall for it, whatever needed to be done.

    No RN in my entire LPN career, ever stepped up to the plate and accepted responsibility for anything that ever went wrong.

    They continually take credit for being responsible for an LPN's actions or inactions when things are going right, yet point the finger of blame at the LPN whenever anything goes wrong.

    In a nutshell, RN's who spout off about being responsible for LPN's actions, are more than happy to take the credit for the good patient outcomes, because of course that could never have happened if an RN weren't involved in a patient's care.

    At the same time, they will distance themselves as far away as possible whenever something goes wrong and say "I don't know, I wasn't that patient's nurse."
    The distinction between RN and LPN suddenly goes away in the RN's mind, whenever something goes wrong, and we suddenly are all "nurses" and they are trying to wash their hands of this so called "accountability."

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