2 hospitals to drop licensed practical nurses - page 17

the changes at mercy and unity hospitals are meant to improve care, but unions say the remaining nurses will be stretched too thin. all 90 licensed practical nursing jobs at mercy and unity... Read More

  1. by   nurse4theplanet
    Quote from Q.
    Does it honestly matter why it's said? Are you honestly defending that kind of behavior simply because you willingly place yourself as the victim, as the underdog? Just because you may feel defensive for whatever reason, real or implied, does not give anyone a free pass to degrade ANY nurse, BSNs or any other administrative nurse.
    Let me remind you that it was you who brought up the subject. I was merely posting my response. Do I take your comments personally? No, in fact I don't find them to be very credible at all. I am not a victim or an underdog, nor did I say it was appropriate to degrade any nurse. On the contrary, it is you who consistently has degrades nurses...well, all nurses except those who hold a BSN or higher. To me that is highly hipocritical.
  2. by   Q.
    Quote from asoldierswife05
    On the contrary, it is you who consistently has degrades nurses...well, all nurses except those who hold a BSN or higher. To me that is highly hipocritical.
    Really? I challenge you to find a statement where I degrade a group of nurses simply by their degree holding.

    And...if you reply that you "don't have the time nor inclination" to drag up posts, then I will take that as you don't have any basis for your libelous statement about me.
    Quote from asoliderswife05
    Do I take your comments personally? No, in fact I don't find them to be very credible at all.
    I also am sorry that you find my opinion less valuable than yours because I'm not an ADN. That's unfortunate.
    Last edit by Q. on Dec 8, '05
  3. by   nurse4theplanet
    Quote from Q.
    No, not to me, but apparently it is to you since you said it.

    There is alot of reading into posts around here, and defensivness. So far I have been accused of pointing out that someone strayed off topic, that I'm shocked that RNs support LPNs, and that I feel LPNs are cost-prohibitive, when in reality I said none of those things. What I have addressed is the bashing of administrators (nursing or otherwise) in an effort to make yourselves feel better.

    What I can't get over is how some posters can feel so insulted by the thought of their position going away, yet turn around and call other nurses' (and, we're all nurses aren't we?) jobs worthless. It's interesting because if I came out and said that LPNs/ADNs are worthless not only would I have a bunch of posters reading me the riot act, I'd probably have my post edited and I'd get a warning.

    My point is that insulting of ANY NURSING POSITION, even an administrator or even those with advanced degrees, isn't ANY MORE ACCEPTABLE than insulting LPNs. And turning around and saying, "well, I'm doing it because SHE said..." is not an excuse. It's still counterproductive and meaningless.

    And we wonder why we can't get it together in this profession.
    I fully support all nurses from LPN and up. I have made that extremely clear and don't see how it slipped by you.

    You should understand why others get so defensive when they feel their profession/title/job is being attacked, since the majority of your posts seem to be in defense of administrative nurses. The pot calling the kettle black?

    I completely agree with you on insulting nurses, regardless of education, is inappropriate. Those who have a problem with administration are free to voice their oppinions and for the most part, it has been quite tasteful.

    I advise you to follow your own advice in sticking to the topic. The debate is over whether or not an LPN position is valuable to nursing or should be dropped in favor of an all RN staff. Don't attack others for being defensive of your comments, when you are just as defensive as theirs. And don't beat around the bush, when providing your oppinion or divert from straightforward questions.

    With that said...here are my questions for you and others who wish to respond as well.

    Do you find LPNs to be useful in nursing?
    Do you hold them to be well educated for their scope of practice?
    Do you support the idea of removing LPNs from the hospital setting?
    If so, how do you propose this is done with the already existing RN shortage without compromising pt safety?

    These questions follow the topic, have nothing to do with ADN vs. BSN, nurses vs. administrators, etc. This is what we are here to discuss.
  4. by   nurse4theplanet
    Quote from Q.
    Really? I challenge you to find a statement where I degrade a group of nurses simply by their degree holding.

    And...if you reply that you "don't have the time nor inclination" to drag up posts, then I will take that as you don't have any basis for your libelous statement about me.

    I also am sorry that you find my opinion less valuable than yours because I'm not an ADN. That's unfortunate.
    I refuse to get in a "p***ing contest" with you, so to speak. That would be misconstrued as a personal attack and a violation of TOS. I have commented on the statements I wish to comment on and I will go no further. I have not said anything libelous, and if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen..meaning don't expect to post your opinion and have everyone agree with you. I never implied that your oppinion was less valuable because of your TITLE, you just made that assumption on your own.
    Last edit by nurse4theplanet on Dec 9, '05
  5. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    And we wonder why we can't get it together in this profession.
    I sure as heck don't wonder, and this is not directed at anyone in particular.

    The degradement of others' degrees, the my-degree-is-better-than-yours crap, the this-should-be-the-requirement-for-nursing-and-oh-coincidently-it's-also-my-level-of-achievement crap, the all-that-degree-is-just-a-bunch-of-fluff-classes crap, the because-it-took-less-classes-and-less-time-it-is-not-good-enough crap, etc.

    As i've already stated, if it weren't for the desire to teach a nursing class someday, i would be happy right where i am, as a licensed practical nurse. While i do get burnt out on people who say"think you're getting treated like crap because you're an LPN, well go back to school", going back to school for my RN does not change someone's holier-than-thou opinion on LPNs. And that is CERTAINLY NOT the reason i'm going back to school.

    And i figure it this way:
    1) It is NOT up to me to determine WHAT is the best education level for other people.
    2) It ain't up to others to determine that for me
    3) People need to keep the "you should's" to themselves
    4) A degree is NOT the same thing as an education

    I'm done here, and i'm also done for awhile on these **** who-makes-the-better-nurse threads for awhile.
  6. by   OhERRN1984
    I`ve worked as an RN in a SW Ohio area for over 20 years. Currently the mix in most of the hospitals around here is very nice, RNs, LPNs, and Aides/PCTs. I like this mix, it works well, and I`m certain it`s more cost effective than a just RN primary care thing.

    However, during my 20 years we have seen 2 times the change to primary care RN`s ONLY, there was a general bloodletting of very qualified LPNs, and Aides/CPTs were seen thereafter working in food service, or elsewhere. It seemed in every case the LPNs took the worst hit, often no jobs were offered to them within the hospital even if they were willing to work for less.

    Hospital administrators are certainly the stupidest of Gods creatures, but this probably doesn`t need to be stated. In any case of cutting jobs in hospitals, the suggested cuts are always Nursing, Respiratory, Lab, Radiology, and other actual pt care areas. I invite all to look at the "employee parking area" of any hospital in existance. First look Monday thru Friday, it`s packed, isn`t it. Now look on your next weekend on, almost empty, isn`t it.

    My question is why aren`t all of those evidently NON ESSENTIAL employess cut first. You know the pts are still there on weekends, so how can we possibly get along for 2 days a week with a skeleton staff? Maybe it`s that skeleton that is actually doing what they say we`re there for.........PT CARE maybe? Go figure, Hospital Admin.......sheesh.

    Prayers to all who may be affected by their stupidity.

    OhERRN1984
  7. by   nurse4theplanet
    It is numerically and physically impossible to have an all RN staff in every hospital. The nursing shortage is growing too fast. Magnet Hospitals, which are best known for cutting out LPNs, only make up 3% of all hospitals. In a perfect world we would all have our PhDs and nobody would ever get sick...but in the real world the patient population is exceeding the supply of nurses of all degrees and cutting an entire scope of healthcare practice is an ignorant solution. I think it is a diversional technique to explain why pt care is going downhill...'Oh it's not because our hospital is overloading the nurses with patients, paperwork, and responsibility...it's because we have all these incompetent LPNs running around!'
  8. by   Q.
    Quote from asoldierswife05
    I advise you to follow your own advice in sticking to the topic.
    Your statement right there just made it crystal clear to me that you don't read a single statement in my post, or, you like you add your own comments to it. I never advised anyone to "stick to the topic."

    As far as the debate, yes, the debate is on LPNs and if their position should remain. We can debate that but if IN that debate I see a comment that says that administration is worthless and they only do things to keep their own miserable jobs, or a statement that BSNs really lack clinical skills and took only a few extra courses in nothing, then I will call it out and cry foul. That is not being defensive, that is trying to keep a constructive debate.

    If you find my doing that offensive, sorry, but then I advise you to re-read the TOS, and probably do so a bit more clearly than you do some posts.
    Last edit by Q. on Dec 9, '05
  9. by   Q.
    Quote from Marie_LPN
    And i figure it this way:
    1) It is NOT up to me to determine WHAT is the best education level for other people.
    2) It ain't up to others to determine that for me
    Marie, then who should determine that within our profession?

    Each profession has rules/regs/standards. If it aint up to us, then who is it up to?
  10. by   nurse4theplanet
    Quote from Q.
    Your statement right there just made it crystal clear to me that you don't read a single statement in my post, or, you like you add your own comments to it. I never advised anyone to "stick to the topic."

    As far as the debate, yes, the debate is on LPNs and if their position should remain. We can debate that but if IN that debate I see a comment that says that administration is worthless and they only do things to keep their own miserable jobs, or a statement that BSNs really lack clinical skills and took only a few extra courses in nothing, then I will call it out and cry foul. That is not being defensive, that is trying to keep a constructive debate.

    If you find my doing that offensive, sorry, but then I advise you to re-read the TOS, and probably do so a bit more clearly than you do some posts.
    Like I said, if you are going to debate the topic then debate the topic. Don't haphazardly make reference to it and then not voice your opinion so you can go off on another tangent. Tell us how you
    really feel about LPNs and their replacement since you keep complaining that everything you say is being twisted and misunderstood. I think that is a fair enough request. Am I the only one who finds this ironic and redundant?
  11. by   RN34TX
    Quote from Q.
    RN34TX, I'm confused by your post. lindarn was speaking about LPNs, yet you identified yourself as an RN. You DO realize that she was speaking about the topic of hand, which is LPNs, not ADNs?
    To finally lay that one to rest, this is where I thought you were telling me to stick to the "topic of hand."
    Let it go already.
  12. by   Q.
    Quote from RN34TX
    Let it go already.
  13. by   pedinurse05
    Earlier on this thread I was in agreement that RN's should be providing the nursing care in hospitals...but I have re-evaluated this. I work on a busy peds floor and many of the nursing skills that I do on a regular basis are skills I learned as an LPN. Trachs, vents, gt, meds, etc. I think the only thing they couldn't really do are a few IVP meds. I wish we had some LPN's because it would be nice to share some of the work load with another professional vs. a tech. We need to join together as a profession to ensure safe delivery of patient care! My opinion is that an LPN can do a lot more than a tech, and the care provided is by a licensed nurse...when budget cuts replace licensed nurses with techs, quality of care is at stake.
    Missy
    Last edit by pedinurse05 on Dec 9, '05

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