15,000 S.F. workers face layoffs, shorter weeks

Pokytrokyt · Mar 12, 2010, 08:20 AM

I feel very sorry for the nurses at SF General. I'm graduating with a BSN from nursing school next spring, and I wonder if there will even be a job available for me next year, to help pay off my huge nursing school loans.

I used to live in CA, and understand the politics there - which is just like politics at the national level in this country. SF is having to lay off city workers to cover a huge budget deficit, due to gov't overspending when times were flush. In CA, voters regularly limit taxes via referendum, but let spending continue to rise. Proving that the voters are just as spineless about spending as their politicians.

In this country, we have a fundamental refusal - by both political parties - to pay for the services we demand from government. Consider: Democrats refuse to raise taxes for the new entitlements they give away to their base...thereby increasing the national deficit, while republicans cut taxes without cutting spending (even when they controlled both Congress and the White House)...thereby increasing the national deficit. Neither dems nor reps are willing to admit that to get our fiscal house in order will require cutting Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security outlays, increasing taxes or a combo of both. So both parties will continue to dither, until we're in some kind of financial crisis they can use for political cover.

One post here said we could solve our healthcare cost problems by refusing to treat illegal immigrants. Seriously? If you believe that, you have no right to a nursing license. If someone comes into an emergency room bleeding and unconscious, are you going to refuse to treat them until you determine if they are a legal resident and have insurance? The solution is to make everyone buy insurance - so they won't all traipse into the high-cost emergency room every time their kid comes down with a cold. They'll use their insurance to see a lower-cost family physician or minute clinic instead....saving us ALL money in the long run.

dcampbell · Mar 12, 2010, 11:22 AM

I agree with treating people who are unconcious and bleeding in the ER. But how do we "make" (your word) people, including illegals, purchase health insurance when we can't even "make" them at least register--get in line--to become legal citizens?

What will happen is what happens now. Legal citizens will be paying for other people (including illegals) healthcare. And that tends to irritate people, rightfully so. Many of us feel overwhelmed with paying for our own healthcare.

Pokytrokyt · Mar 12, 2010, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by dcampbell

I agree with treating people who are unconcious and bleeding in the ER. But how do we "make" (your word) people, including illegals, purchase health insurance when we can't even "make" them at least register--get in line--to become legal citizens?

What will happen is what happens now. Legal citizens will be paying for other people (including illegals) healthcare. And that tends to irritate people, rightfully so. Many of us feel overwhelmed with paying for our own healthcare.

First, I think some illegals have enough income that they would purchase basic insurance, if it were available to everyone, no questions asked. Second, I think we should make proof of health insurance coverage a prerequisite for registering a car and obtaining a drivers license (which illegals can already do today). You still wouldn't snag everyone, but you'd get a lot closer to full participation.

I'm also being slammed with high health care costs, due to my age. Today, the cost of my coverage includes a share of the cost for healthcare for people who show up in emergency rooms, get treated and don't pay. If everyone had to buy insurance, there would be fewer (yeah, still a few illegals out there) scofflaws, my insurance rates would go down slightly, and the rate of annual increase would flatten out somewhat. I'm also in favor of letting all the insurance companies compete in nationwide insurance pools. Again, that would lower costs. Malpractice tort reform would also lower my rates by about 1%... not much, but I'll take anything I can get. The one thing that's not in the "Obamacare" bill that should be, is a rule allowing HHS/FDA to grant waivers to states that want to buy prescription drugs from Canada... the Big Pharma lobbyists have bought off both the dems and repubs on that one. So much for Free Enterprise.

nursenow · Mar 13, 2010, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by EmergencyNrse

Funny, I just received a travel opening for Stockton over in East County area.
48.00/hr plus travel, housing, insurance. Things aren't THAT bad.

I dont know if you have ever been to Stockton. I have and there is a reason they have to pay someone to come into town to work. Its kind of like Cochella valley.

nursenow · Mar 13, 2010, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by dcampbell

I agree with treating people who are unconcious and bleeding in the ER. But how do we "make" (your word) people, including illegals, purchase health insurance when we can't even "make" them at least register--get in line--to become legal citizens?

What will happen is what happens now. Legal citizens will be paying for other people (including illegals) healthcare. And that tends to irritate people, rightfully so. Many of us feel overwhelmed with paying for our own healthcare.

Why are we even discussing how to insure eligal aliens? Their very presence is in violation of federal law. If you or I were caught sneaking across the border(either direction) we would be arrested, lose our license and do time in a federal pen. I have zero interest in giving them insurance. If they show up at the E.R., treat them and then send them back home. At my SNF, we have one that is fully recovered, has been living off our tax dollars for 6 months and the facility cant kick him out because they dont know what to do with him. he has no home so they cant send him out on the street. You or I would be kicked out in a slit second. There is something very wrong with our system.

♪♫ in my ♥ · Mar 14, 2010, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by Pokytrokyt

The one thing that's not in the "Obamacare" bill that should be, is a rule allowing HHS/FDA to grant waivers to states that want to buy prescription drugs from Canada...

Forget buying drugs in Canada... simply cap the price just like Canadians do.

HeartsOpenWide · Mar 14, 2010, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by Michaelxy

All the while that they toil day in and day out for meager wages, the world moves on, rental prices rise almost at an exponential rate, grocery prices rise almost in harmony with gas, but yet, minimum wage has remained unchanged for years.

As real estate gains value, and gas prices divide those who can purchase a descent meal, minimum wage remains a constant, more min wage workers will find themselves in hovels at best, or worse, on the street.

For me the options for the min wage worker seem bleak and I am more than willing to pay an extra 50 cents for my burger.

In California minimum wage is raised almost every few years:
January 1, 2008 $8.00 $7.50 $0.50 6.7 percent
January 1, 2007 $7.50 $6.75 $0.75 11.1 percent
January 1, 2002 $6.75 $6.25 $0.50 8.00 percent
January 1, 2001 $6.25 $5.75 $0.50 8.70 percent
March 1, 1998 $5.75 $5.15 $0.60 11.65 percent
Septe 1, 1997 $5.15 $5.00 $0.15 3.00 percent
March 1, 1997 $5.00 $4.75 $0.25 5.26 percent
October 1, 1996 $4.75 $4.25 $0.50 11.76 percent

And every time minimum wage rises prices rise to make up for the increase cost of businesses having to pay for that rise to pay employees (ever notice how within a year restaurants get new menus with increased prices after minimum wage goes up); so those getting minimum wage really do not make any more because costs go up and those that make above minimum wage and salary do not get any more, so they are actually making less. I have never gotten a raise when minimum wage went up which caused the cost of living to go up.

Minimum wage is a beginning wage. If people are staying at minimum wage then they should speak to their employers about their improved performance since hire and ask for a raise, or start looking for a job that they can start above minimum wage; they do exist. And not to sound snarky, but people should be paid what they are worth, no you are not going to get 15.00/hr to work at McDonalds.

I understand that everyones situation is different, but getting an education in California (well maybe not as easy as before in this economy) is in reach for anyone, especially those with low income; its free. And the J.R. colleges have counselors to help people out and there are so many programs out there to help people whether it be financially or educationally (like those with learning disabilities). Although some, very few have a true excuse.

If we continue to give things away for free, situations in SF are going to continue to happen. My friend lives in SF and worked at that hospital as a student, he says tons of free health care is given to illegal aliens; that being just one of the many situations of free health care. If you continue to milk the cow for free eventually the cow is going to try up. Its a wonder why people can not figure out why suddenly everyone is so danged thirsty. Its simple 15-30= (-)15

Michaelxy · Mar 15, 2010, 12:46 AM

In California minimum wage is raised almost every few years:
January 1, 2008 $8.00 $7.50 $0.50 6.7 percent

Well since you like using statistics, allow me to share a few as well.

First at $8.00/hr for 4 weeks is roughly $1200.00 before taxes.

Now;

Cost of Apartment Rent In California The cost of living in California varies depending on where you live. For example the average rent in Huntington Beach is $1,439 a month while average rent in Santa Monica is $3,246 a month. The Cost of living in Anaheim is the cheapest at $1,265, that is if you are looking to move close to Los Angeles.

Being generous that I am, let's use $1265.00 rental price. At minimum wage this rent can not be met by the minimum wage worker.

And every time minimum wage rises prices rise to make up for the increase cost of businesses having to pay for that rise to pay employees (ever notice how within a year restaurants get new menus with increased prices after minimum wage goes up); so those getting minimum wage really do not make any more because costs go up and those that make above minimum wage and salary do not get any more, so they are actually making less.

How nice that you can sum up the intricate details of small business economics into such a nutshell. Do you really think the minimum wage earner who can't afford rent is really dining out? I suppose the overpaid Union member cashier at the local grocery has nothing to do with cost of living increases. Of course not or more people would be picketing the unions, it must be the single mom waitress earning $8.00 an hour at the diner that is driving up cost.
Surely energy cost can also be attributed to the minimum wage worker as well. Naturally I am being facetious but I hope to make a point.

Minimum wage is a beginning wage. If people are staying at minimum wage then they should speak to their employers about their improved performance since hire and ask for a raise, or start looking for a job that they can start above minimum wage

Oh how wonderful a world it would be if it was that simple.

"The beginning wage indeed" For many they began at this wage and some many years later they remain at the state or Fed minimum wage with no hope for anything better.

Perhaps you ought to visit a local homeless shelter. I have done many hours of work at these places and I am here to tell you this. Despite your preconceived notions of a bum wreaking of booze, most of the people in the shelters are displaced families, many who work at the "beginning wage" Yet can not afford a place to reside due to low income. In fact, I would estimate the majority are homeless women with children and no where to turn. The addicts and drunks are turned away at most shelters so get those folks out of the picture.

Go to school you say? Sure, no problem, I am sure the single mom on the streets can ask their bunk mate at the local shelter to watch their kids while they get that coveted diploma.

My point is that the overall big picture is much more complicated and with many more shades of the gray than the simple picture that you painted.
Here is a good read if you have the time.

http://a-s.clayton.edu/kthompso/GregoryMantsios.pdf

*oramar* · Mar 16, 2010, 07:44 PM

Sometimes I wish someone would ask me and my hubby how we fought our own personal war against poverty. Yes the system is stacked against people on the bottom rungs of society but sometimes you find people that beat it. My husband lived in a housing project as a child and also spent most his childhood on welfare. I am the daughter of an alcoholic mill worker that couldn't read. Both our mothers were very good people but were housewives with no education or skills. We are not one of those rags to riches stories that you do read about, that ground gets covered plenty, but we are a rags to comfortable story. Somebody needs to study people like us and see what qualities we have, what we do right and what pitfalls we avoid. Our greatest achievement are our two highly educated, high successful children that have swell careers. Yes me and dear hubby, we made an amazing team for sure.