How is this fair?

Nurses Criminal

Published

I was accepted into Nursing School contigent on a background check. I already know that I have a history so I asked the Chairperson of the program what the next step would be when my history came back. I was told there would be no further steps because I would be denied. When I addressed the disclaimer stating that 'clearance to a clinical facility will be decided by the clinical agencies', I was told that she knows for sure that they wouldn't accept me.

Now, the Board in my State said that they would consider candidates for licensure with criminal histories on a case by case basis, taking into account severity, time passed, rehabilitative efforts, recommendation letters and the like. However, they won't be able to render a decision until we actually apply for licensure. How is this possible if all Nursing Schools in the state won't accept you for clinical placement?

Since I have a history I've been preparing for this moment. I've been gathering recommendation letters, I've started the process to get Nursing Home clearance and I was expecting for my case to at least go to the agencies but I was shot down as soon as I said I have a history. I was told that if they had known I wouldn't have been accepted. This I already knew which is why I waited for acceptance before speaking with them.

The only option that I see is to continue with the clearance for the Nursing Home because that would be the first clinical site. The second and third clinical rotations are both done at my place of employment so there's no problem there. The fourth and final clinical is a Peds rotation. I'm a PCT at my place of employment and have been involved with patient care for 2 years now. I submitted my criminal history before getting hired and I was obviously cleared. My history is over 14years old and while my offenses are serious, I can absolutely provide documentation of rehabilitation. I already have the documents. I have a recommendation letter from the AVP of outpatient services who I've worked with personally and is aware of my history. I'm going to inquire about any contacts the AVP may have in the sites where my school does Peds rotations, because unfortunately, we have no Ped services.

I'm not asking for legal advice. I'm venting on my situation and asking how to approach this situtation. Should I go to the clinical contact at my school and ask if they can contact another site for Peds or what? Is my plan viable? What do you think?

Please, if you have nothing useful and encouraging to say to me, don't say anything at all. I don't need a moral spanking because I've done that to myself for too many years, I'm fully aware of the Board's first priority, to protect the public as they should. I'm just trying to make it to the Board and I don't see how it's possible based on what this person is telling me. Also, I personally know of people who went through nursing school with clinical histories and a couple who went throught this school in particular. Should I mention that?:confused:

please let me explain elkpark, because somewhere along the way, the lines got twisted. i understood your post perfectly. i know that you ment the director knows that the clinical sites affiliated with the school doesn't accept anyone with a criminal history. my response was this, the course material as well as my acceptance letter states, 'positive criminal histories will be reviewed by the clinical sites and if you are denied clinical placement with them you will have to withdraw from the program' (not a direct quote).

when i asked what the procedure would be as far as the review process, she stated there would be no review because she already knows they won't accept anyone with criminal histories. my reasoning is this, she didn't ask me what the history entails or how long ago it was, so for her to make that particular statement would indeed imply that any criminal history, across the board will be denied. if that is the case, then the course material would read, 'criminal histories of any sort will not be accepted at this school', or something to that effect.

now if that is indeed the case, then that practice sounds discriminatory to me. i specifically stated that i know of no law to that effect, but that the matter of the contradictory practice of the board, (case by case decisions) & the schools, (no criminal histories allowed) should be seriously looked at and maybe something akin to the declaratory order process that texas has, can be implemented.

now as far as employment goes. i mentioned nothing about employment after licensure. nor did i imply that the board can force someone to hire me. i'm astonished at that whole section because i've read this whole criminal history thread and i'm aware of rn's who are unable to obtain employment with histories. i'm also aware of rn's that are able to obtain employment with histories. i didn't wake up yesterday gung ho to become a nurse. i'm well aware of the risks. i just happen to believe in miracles, as i've already mentioned, and even moreso, that i'm in the care of a god who wants for nothing but my success. not going to get overly spiritual right now, i'll just say that i believe in me and i believe in him. i already work in a healthcare facility.

finally, do you really think that i don't know that i'd have to do clinicals at the contracted sites? wow. did you really picture me going from one healthcare facility to another asking if i can do clinicals with them? and did you really expect me to go to the school and insist on someone accompanying me to whatever site said yes? i'm suprised that you'd think that i would be that uninformed and naive. i know all of the clinical sites that they use. i work at one of them. it seems to me that the more detail i try to give, the more out of context the information is taken. in that respect, i'll just follow up on this thread when my particular situation is resolved. whether the resolution is to my favor or not.

no elkpark, i don't feel browbeaten or criticized, i do however feel patronized and ridiculed.

instead of setting boundaries and limits to what you will accept for answers, i suggest being open to what people are trying to say to you and leaving your attitude at the door. i have read too many stories where nurses are denied work based on the past and these nurses had no clue that they would face problems working with a criminal history, i did not see ridicule or patronization towards you, and while i realize that you are upset and aggravated over this, there is no clear or easy solution .

i don't see where you said that you received a written rejection letter, and from what i gather, you are taking what this director says as fact. i am unsure what the actual admission process is and who makes the decision. i would have to thnk that there is a place on the application that allows for explanation about your past, and that you have provided this info with back up documentation to support your case,

No elkpark, I don't feel browbeaten or criticized, I do however feel patronized and ridiculed.

I apologize sincerely for giving that impression -- it was not my intent at all. Best wishes for your journey.

I too did not see any patronization or ridicule in the least. You asked for information and what I see is elkpark giving you information. How is she or anyone else to know exactly what you know or have already thought of? She was clarifying the process. Your interpretation of a post intended to provide helpful information as ridiculing you and patronizing you is confusing to me. In nursing you will frequently be critiqued and likely also given information you already know - if that is not something you can deal with without taking it personally and reacting to it, then I'm not sure nursing is the right career for you.

Specializes in Float.
instead of setting boundaries and limits to what you will accept for answers, i suggest being open to what people are trying to say to you and leaving your attitude at the door. i have read too many stories where nurses are denied work based on the past and these nurses had no clue that they would face problems working with a criminal history, i did not see ridicule or patronization towards you, and while i realize that you are upset and aggravated over this, there is no clear or easy solution .

i don't see where you said that you received a written rejection letter, and from what i gather, you are taking what this director says as fact. i am unsure what the actual admission process is and who makes the decision. i would have to thnk that there is a place on the application that allows for explanation about your past, and that you have provided this info with back up documentation to support your case,

who are you?!:confused:

now that's attitude. "please, if you have nothing useful and encouraging to say to me, don't say anything at all."

please don't come into my vent thread and chastise me about attitude. what i said to elkpark was said from wounded feelings, not contempt. that's why i started the post with, "please let me explain......" when i posted to elkpark that i was glad she responded and i really respect her knowledge and views, she posted back that her post was actually directed toward the clinical facilities. she then went on to explain as if i didn't understand her post. i took that to mean, "don't thank me because i wasn't posting for you". that may not have been her intent but it's what i read and as a result, i felt slighted. the tone of the post, to me, was of someone giving direction to a gum popping, disillusioned teenager, of which i'm not.

i have a right to my feelings, i have a right to post about them and i have a right to request that anyone with something untoward to say, not say it to me. as i'm trying to keep a positive attitude, i'd rather not have to deal with fending off judgmental, biased posters.

no, i didn't receive a written rejection letter. i received a written acceptance letter. the application i submitted didn't have a section to address criminal histories and the documents i have explaining about my past have not been submitted because the director won't accept them. i am most definitely not taking her word as law because i know it's not. she however is convinced it is, and that's the reason for this thread. this situation is emotional for me. it doesn't feel good to be held hostage over past mistakes, especially when i've worked very hard to overcome and perservere. it feels even worse when the door slams before you can even explain. this is what this woman did, but i happen to know that when a door shuts, god opens a window.

Specializes in Vents, Telemetry, Home Care, Home infusion.

i'm sorry you are not liking the advice are members are giving.

the use of background checks for individuals working in clinical settings is

one of the means agencies use to help protect their clients/patients. while

obtaining background checks is not new for clinical agencies, the joint

commission has recently added in 2008 to human resources standards (hr.1.20) a section related to criminal background checks. the joint commission standard requires agencies to include nursing students and volunteers, anyone with direct contact with patients, in criminal background checks when required by state law, regulation or hospital policy. (www.jcaho.com)

[color=#0000cc]requirements for criminal background checks | joint commission

[color=#598abe][color=#598abe][color=#598abe][color=#598abe]why must the school and healthcare facility perform background checks?[color=#598abe]

[color=#598abe][color=#598abe]a3.

there are three primary reasons for performing these checks:

1. a criminal record will likely prevent you from receiving a professional license uponcompletion of an educational program. most state licensing boards perform acriminal background search as part of the licensure process, and it would be unfortunate to complete an education, yet be unable to be granted a license.

2. hospitals in which you work as part of your clinical rotations are required to have a background check report on file for all providers of hands‐on care, whether they are employees of the hospital or not (this included nursing students). hospitals are putting their joint commission certification at risk by having an unchecked individual present in their facility.

3. it may be the case that a person may have a criminal record and is not aware of it. for instance, an old conviction that is eligible to be purged from the student's record must be expunged following a written request; if the student does not submit the written request, then the conviction will remain on the student's record even though it is eligible for removal. such a conviction could prevent licensure or future employment. finding out now allows the student to take the necessary steps to make proper amends. also, if it is not possible to remove a conviction at present, it

is recommended that the conviction be disclosed so that employment of licensure is not denied for providing false information.

[color=#598abe]

most schools/facilites will not rely on information received from student directly but listing from state/fbi background check only to make a decision. since students could run into trouble with the law at anytime throughout education or have record expunged during this time, school may not list a blanket statement upfront.

it was very hard on me last year to fire a new staff within 10 days employment cause their background check came back positive despite having worked as temp for 6 months; federal regs require no convictions for theft for home health agencies. my agency now requires background check on all temp workers prior to starting assignment.

check out the info here: national helping individuals with criminal record re-enter through employment network

kudos for you in rehabilitating yourself. please check out other schools in your area regarding this issue to see how they handle positive background as part of it's admission process.

otherwise, legal advice from lawyer previously involved in your cases or [color=#1111cc]the american association of nurse attorneys is in your best interest.

i wouldn't bother. I have a record. I got INTO school. I graduated from school. I was allowed a license. I passed my boards. And a year later, nobody will hire me. Even though it's illegal to NOT hire me based on my background. THey can. And they do. What a waste. And now I owe $75K in student loans, working as a waitress.

Specializes in Float.

Update

I went to the clinical agencies that my school contracts with and was told, by written correspondence, that the decision is not up to the clinical sites but it lies with the school alone. I spent all summer going back and forth disclosing my background in order to obtain clinical clearance based on a conversation with the school's legal department and to find that it wasn't necessary just absolutely floored me.

I met with the chairperson again after I had attended her first orientation where I filled in my registration forms and ordered my uniforms, and she told me that I had until the first of Sept. to obtain clearance. She said that I would be a gateway for other students should I succeed but one day after contacting one of the agencies, I received a letter advising me that my acceptance would not go forward due to a negative criminal background check.

Well, with my uniforms already paid for and the next orientation starting next week, I'm making a final hail-mary attempt by filing a petition for redress. The basis of my redress is the documented time scope of the search which is 2003-2010. I'm asking that the last seven years of my background check be used to make the decision. My offenses are in 1993 & 1996 and I'm asking that they not be considered because the search is documented to only go back 7 years. It will take an act of God to get me in this program. For them to reverse their decision is a task only the almighty can accomplish but I still believe in his will and power. :)

I contacted a lawyer also. They want to find out what the written response will be for the petition to redress before they decide if they can offer any legal assistance. So much has happened this summer but it would do no good to get into the nitty, gritty details. This is just an update and as general as I can make it.

PhoenixTech:

Sorry to hear about this. One question, did you have your case expunged? I remember at my school, one girls had hers expunged and she was okay to get in. Also, my school background goes back 7 years only. Your are way past that.

My school also says that they can accept the student but the clinical rotations (hospitals are the ones that reject the students).

If I was you, I would keep trying. You never know if at the end they let you in. My mom always tells me: "the worse try is the one you never do" (well, I'm translating -English, second language). I am assuming you school starts on Sept first? Have you heard back?

KayteRN's post below makes me think sometimes. I often think why am I working so hard if I may not be able to find a job? But right now, I have got nothing to lose. I love the classes and if I don't get hired it will still be worth doing it. I am learning a lot and I have met a lot of strong people. I can tell you, I have never seen so much work in my life.

I hope something works out for you.

Specializes in Float.

Thank you Racharina. Your words are comforting and I'm so glad that you are enjoying your nursing program. I wish you all the best.:yeah:

The background checks that my school uses only goes back 7 years also, however, because of an addendum to the FRCA, convictions are allowed to show indefinitely. Unfortunately, my offenses aren't expungable, already checked into that one. Yes, I agree with your mom, I'll keep trying. The official start date is Sept. 7. Hopefully, i'll here something by then.

I've already resolved myself to the fact that, short of a letter from the school sitting in my mailbox when I get home, i'll miss the next two orientations. They're Sept 1 & Sept 2. As far as the decision being up to the sites, I think it was easier for my school to put it off on the clinical sites, especially in the absense of an established review panel to decide on positive background checks. Anyway, I think that you would absolutely have not wasted your time and I believe you'll have a job waiting when you finish school.

Walk by faith, not by sight.

Specializes in Float.

Update:

*wineIf I was a drinker, I'd be doing this right now. However, since I'm not, I'm just going to thank God for his continued grace and mercy in my life. It's official, I'm a nursing student!

On the last day of orientation, I went down to the school to ask if I could attend while my petition was being reviewed and discovered that there was a new chairperson. I decided to speak to this individual about my situation. I was referred to someone who was partnered with the new chairperson, being new and all, and long story short, I was accepted.

I haven't gotten a written response to my petition, I was told to go to the final orientation and do well. Today I was registered and attended the first day of class. I'm waiting for advice from my lawyer to determine if I should ask for a written response, or is the fact that I'm registered and attending classes sufficient enough to address the petition.

For now, I'm going to enjoy my miracle, straight from God, then hit the books, because I'm already behind.:)

I tell you Phonix, God works in the most mysterious ways!!!

I got your last private message and I didn't have time to reply... but on Sunday, when I went to church, I prayed for you. I couldn't remember exactly the entire name just "Phoenix", but I told God: "I know you know whom I am praying about"... I always think God does open the doors when things are for us. One way or another one.

I am so happy that you are in!!! I know how you feel, and how hard you have prayed.

All we have to do is keep on praying and not to forget the miracles from God, and obey him.

Well, now, prepare to work hard, because it is a lot of work. Show them what you are made off. I am doing the same thing.

The first weeks of classes, I felt pretty awkward. I knew that all the instructors knew about my problem, so I was really, really embarrassed. Many of them where like: "How do you pronounce your name?" Every time they asked me that, I thought they were trying to finally connect my name with a body. Like: """mmmhhh, so this is the girl". I still feel a little bit like that (embarrassed) and I am trying to deal with those negative feelings, and honestly, there is not one day I get up that I don't think on that horrible day at JCPenny. I am still wondering if next semester I will continue in the program. Remember that I am subject to the other hospitals to accepted me with my infraction. God knows all the desires of my heart and will know what to do with me.

Let me know how everything went... and don't forget I am here if you need to talk.

God bless you and CONGRATULATIONS!!! :yeah:

Specializes in Float.

Thanks for your prayers on my behalf. I share your beliefs, obedience is definitely key. I'm praying for a positive outcome for us both although I already feel that we are over the hump.

I completely know what you mean about the uncomfortability of knowing that faculty knows your story. Yesterday in class, it took almost the whole 3 hours for me to feel comfortable enough to join in the discussion. Plus the fact that I don't have all of my books yet so I'm behind with the computer assignments. I've been given a Friday deadline to email the assignments.

However, I know that nothing worth it's weight in gold is an easy process and that goes for our feelings as well. We'll get past them. I like to read NRSkarenRN's signature whenever I come to this thread. The one that talks about the brick walls. It keeps me hopeful, the possibility that I can prove myself.

I'll PM you later.

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