How is this fair?

[PhoenixTech]

I was accepted into Nursing School contigent on a background check. I already know that I have a history so I asked the Chairperson of the program what the next step would be when my history came back. I was told there would be no further steps because I would be denied. When I addressed the disclaimer stating that 'clearance to a clinical facility will be decided by the clinical agencies', I was told that she knows for sure that they wouldn't accept me.

Now, the Board in my State said that they would consider candidates for licensure with criminal histories on a case by case basis, taking into account severity, time passed, rehabilitative efforts, recommendation letters and the like. However, they won't be able to render a decision until we actually apply for licensure. How is this possible if all Nursing Schools in the state won't accept you for clinical placement?

Since I have a history I've been preparing for this moment. I've been gathering recommendation letters, I've started the process to get Nursing Home clearance and I was expecting for my case to at least go to the agencies but I was shot down as soon as I said I have a history. I was told that if they had known I wouldn't have been accepted. This I already knew which is why I waited for acceptance before speaking with them.

The only option that I see is to continue with the clearance for the Nursing Home because that would be the first clinical site. The second and third clinical rotations are both done at my place of employment so there's no problem there. The fourth and final clinical is a Peds rotation. I'm a PCT at my place of employment and have been involved with patient care for 2 years now. I submitted my criminal history before getting hired and I was obviously cleared. My history is over 14years old and while my offenses are serious, I can absolutely provide documentation of rehabilitation. I already have the documents. I have a recommendation letter from the AVP of outpatient services who I've worked with personally and is aware of my history. I'm going to inquire about any contacts the AVP may have in the sites where my school does Peds rotations, because unfortunately, we have no Ped services.

I'm not asking for legal advice. I'm venting on my situation and asking how to approach this situtation. Should I go to the clinical contact at my school and ask if they can contact another site for Peds or what? Is my plan viable? What do you think?

Please, if you have nothing useful and encouraging to say to me, don't say anything at all. I don't need a moral spanking because I've done that to myself for too many years, I'm fully aware of the Board's first priority, to protect the public as they should. I'm just trying to make it to the Board and I don't see how it's possible based on what this person is telling me. Also, I personally know of people who went through nursing school with clinical histories and a couple who went throught this school in particular. Should I mention that?

[PhoenixTech, LPN]

I was pulled out of class this morning and told by the individual who had accepted me that my acceptance was based on little information and that I had to withdraw. This individual stated that she only meant I could go to the orientation, and after speaking with other people she has to take me out of the system.

It seems that I've misinterpreted what God's plan was.

[purplemargie]

I have read all of your posts...I'm so very sorry! What was the eventual outcome? I'm thinking about you and sending you positive thoughts and blessings.

[PhoenixTech, LPN]

i have read all of your posts...i'm so very sorry! what was the eventual outcome? i'm thinking about you and sending you positive thoughts and blessings.

thank you for your positive thoughts and blessings. i went home that day and got in the bed for a week straight. i cried and prayed and finally took all the books back to the school. when i went to work and everyone was waiting to hear what nursing school was like, i cringed when i told them that it didn't work out. i felt devastated....then i transferred into another school. i've decided to try again and while i won't know until the semester starts, i'm still hopeful and confident that i've heard a word from my lord and saviour jesus christ...and that all things are possible through christ who strengthens me.-phillipians 4:13 :)

[Tiger747]

Man, you've had some bad luck! I got through nursing school, boards, and all, but cannot buy a job. God may indeed be trying to tell you something. 11 months of unemployment makes me wish my school would have kicked me out.

Nonetheless, remember Jackie Gleason in "Smokey and the Bandit"? The part where a fellow officer tells him something is not germaine to the conversation, and Jackie Gleason responds, "The Germans ain't got nothing to do with it."

Well, frankly, our shared situation has nothing to do with God and everything to do with the human condition. Consider yourself fortunate and move on. It is far more embarrassing and financially devastating to actually be a nurse while having to explain to everyone why you are unemployed and having to constantly renew your deferment status on student loans.

If something was severe enough to keep you out of nursing school, you can bet it will pop back up later. Only this time you might have a bunch of student loans. Just telling it straight. You wouldn't want to be me.

[pixie120]

Thank you all for your replies.

No _phaedra_, my state or school doesn't require fingerprint clearance and there are no disqualifying offenses. However, for the Nursing Homes, if you have certain convictions you have to go through a clearance procedure where you can explain yourself and present evidence of rehabilitation before you can work there or do clinicals there. That's what I'm in the process of doing now.

elkpark thank you for responding, I've followed you on this site and really respect your knowledge and views. When your school said that licensure was between Board and student, that is exactly what I'm pushing for and looking forward to. I understand that I have to live my life despite not knowing the outcome of everything I attempt to do and I do believe in miracles. I'd like the opportunity to get to the Board.

If the director had asked me what my history was and how long ago it was, then I'd be satisfied that she spoke with authority. However, since the moment I said 'history' she said no and since she confirmed that if they had known they wouldn't have accepted me, I'm flummoxed as to how the decision is left up to the clinical agencies as not only the program material states, but also as my own acceptance letter states. If it's as she says it is, that no clinical agencies in my state accepts people with any criminal history regardless of details, but the Board is saying that they go on a case by case basis, it seems to me that this sort of practice should be discriminatory. I'm not saying we have a law like that, I'm saying the state needs to seriously take a look at it. Maybe adopt the declaratory order process that Texas has.

I've been doing Patient Care for 2 years now and I disclosed my history with my job before I was hired. I know for a fact that I'd be able to do clinicals at my job, which is one of my school's clinical sites. In any event, I'm going to work on getting my own clinical clearance and if I'm not able to, I'll concede that this particular opportunity is not for me at this time. I have till September to get it together, I'll keep you posted. :)

Has your employer ran a Criminal Background check recently?It would be very helpful to see what shows up. In the past, there are some convictions that are "automatic" exclusions (for nursing homes, Assisted Living) and there are others that require a "character" study. I had the happen once the gal was working there for over a year, someone forgot to get her background check, we ran it, it came back blah, blah blah, we did the character study and supporting documents from her to "explain" and then she was fine (it did take a bit of persuasion from me, on her behalf, to the administrator, he was shocked at the crime apparently, having no criminal history, some people cannot relate).

[PhoenixTech, LPN]

Hi Pixie

In the past 4 years I've had two background checks done. One in 2008 from the state police that listed my 3 convictions. The other in 2010 from the school's agency that listed all charges, convictions and a added conviction. When I sent the agency my certified court documents to fix my report, they told me that the court had to change it in their system in order for them to change it. I didn't understand this because I got my paperwork directly from the court showing what was in their system. Go figure.

I don't know if my current job ran a background check or not but I submitted my history on the application along with an explanation letter. It wasn't a problem and I submitted a letter from my job to the school stating that I was cleared as far as their background requirements were concerned but to no avail. It just wasn't meant for me to attend that particular nursing school. I have accepted it and have moved on.

Pixie I understand that there are people out there who just can't relate when someone reveals a criminal history, this board is a good indicator of this, however, there are more people on this board and in the world who can understand that life happens. That's not to say that life equals criminal history, not at all, but that life is unpredictable and messy in many instances. In any event, I don't choose to look at life as Tiger747 does, I believe that I will come across those people in life that have an understanding view and that's been 'there' themselves. Those are the people I believe my Lord will place in my life to help me on my path.

@ Tiger747

You are right I wouldn't want to be you only because of your attitude. I can hear the bitterness and sarcasm in your posts and believe me, I understand. When I first got denied, I was bitter and angry and had very little tolerance for any unkind words directed at me. But since you have addressed me directly, I will give you a little advice. Pray. Pray with sincerity and humility. Even through your student loans and unanswered applications. Even with your 20 year old misdemeanor. Maybe the reason you've had no success yet has less to do with your criminal history and more to do with your attitude. It's not just to say that the "board is not the problem and getting a job is" because for some people it's the opposite. It's more appropriate to say, situations vary and I wish you well. Listen, even if you don't believe in God, the reality of him is true if only because you have an opportunity to seal your past. Even though it's costing you $1000.00, soon you'll be able to fill out an application and answer no to the dreaded question. I don't have that opportunity, my convictions are not sealable, yet I move forward by faith.......not anger and resentment. Take care Tiger747 and look inside yourself. :redpinkhe

[PhoenixTech, LPN]

@ Tiger747

In my previous post I talked about your 20 year old misdemeanor. After going back and reading your other posts, I see that I've made an error, it's 10 years. Let me say however that the problem lies in the type of Nursing you've decided to do. Since most hospitals only hire RN's, the LPN's are being utilized mostly by LTC, SNF, Nursing homes, etc. If you had done a little research beforehand, you would've discovered this law for those types of facilities. Are there any hospitals in your area that hires LPN's? Also, in my state, even though they have this law, you can petition the state for a deferral of this law if you can prove rehabilitation. Why don't you go forward for your RN?

If that fails at least you can expunge it soon. :)

[pixie120]

Hi Pixie

In the past 4 years I've had two background checks done. One in 2008 from the state police that listed my 3 convictions. The other in 2010 from the school's agency that listed all charges, convictions and a added conviction. When I sent the agency my certified court documents to fix my report, they told me that the court had to change it in their system in order for them to change it. I didn't understand this because I got my paperwork directly from the court showing what was in their system. Go figure.

I don't know if my current job ran a background check or not but I submitted my history on the application along with an explanation letter. It wasn't a problem and I submitted a letter from my job to the school stating that I was cleared as far as their background requirements were concerned but to no avail. It just wasn't meant for me to attend that particular nursing school. I have accepted it and have moved on.

Pixie I understand that there are people out there who just can't relate when someone reveals a criminal history, this board is a good indicator of this, however, there are more people on this board and in the world who can understand that life happens. That's not to say that life equals criminal history, not at all, but that life is unpredictable and messy in many instances. In any event, I don't choose to look at life as Tiger747 does, I believe that I will come across those people in life that have an understanding view and that's been 'there' themselves. Those are the people I believe my Lord will place in my life to help me on my path.

@ Tiger747

You are right I wouldn't want to be you only because of your attitude. I can hear the bitterness and sarcasm in your posts and believe me, I understand. When I first got denied, I was bitter and angry and had very little tolerance for any unkind words directed at me. But since you have addressed me directly, I will give you a little advice. Pray. Pray with sincerity and humility. Even through your student loans and unanswered applications. Even with your 20 year old misdemeanor. Maybe the reason you've had no success yet has less to do with your criminal history and more to do with your attitude. It's not just to say that the "board is not the problem and getting a job is" because for some people it's the opposite. It's more appropriate to say, situations vary and I wish you well. Listen, even if you don't believe in God, the reality of him is true if only because you have an opportunity to seal your past. Even though it's costing you $1000.00, soon you'll be able to fill out an application and answer no to the dreaded question. I don't have that opportunity, my convictions are not sealable, yet I move forward by faith.......not anger and resentment. Take care Tiger747 and look inside yourself. :redpinkhe

God bless you my friend, you WILL find strength in prayer, God DOES have an answer, it isn't always immediately apparent. I agree attitude is everything. I will tell you something though, years ago I had a thing on my drivers license which was originally not such a great thing, it took 2 years in the courts, and many, many visits on my part and my attorneys' (court appointed) I was quite young and poor, and then at the very,very last court visit, when it would be changed to the lesser count, I literally had to stand over the court staff to MAKE SURE it was truly, truly amended to the lesser charge so the original charge would NOT show. IE put on my record what my plea bargain charge was (all traffic, but important none the less). IF I had not done that, the wrong charge would have beenplaced and you can bet that would have taken years to get it off there. At every court opportunity you HAVE to be vigilant and ask for documentation to back up what the judge told you verbally, the courts are very, very busy and it is very easy to get mixed up stuff put on your record. Is there a way you can go back to the courts, petition for a lesser charge, or a plea or talk with your attorney (ask for court ordered if indigent) and then go from there to start working on getting into nursing school? ALSO, time is on your side, the longer it is from your convictions, the better off you will be, that may sound like a lifetime to you, but sometimes God has another plan for us that we cannot see, or will not see, because we are stuck in the middle of something else. I have been moved along many times by our shepard, not always what I wanted to do, and it all worked out, really really nicely but only when I removed myself from the decision making and prayed and went with the "New" plan (of course I will tell you I am very much a realist, and I fight tooth and nail at everything, it's my record, and it better reflect the lesser charge and the original charge expunged, and yeah, that was an all day everyday for 2 years to make sure that happened. And I had to fight for the plea bargain, they were NOT going to give it to me, said I should have known better, since I was a correction officer at the time, how do you like them apples? SO,... according to the prosecutor, not even a CO can make a mistake, lol).I felt like you feel, very judged, daily, I was very silent for my family and just a few trusted friends, because people truly get scared and say wierd stuff. Mine was really a minor issue for just a citizen, but I knew I was going to go to school to be a nurse, and I was scared to death that would preclude me. It didn't and now it's something that is so old I often forget about it.) My advice to you is fight back, don't get down on yourself, always always find the positive in the negative, it is there. Can you at least work as a CNA in home health or an assisted living? Try and see what they say, the worst they can do is turn you down, I would try the nursing homes as well, see what actually is showing on your record, cuz if they run a criminal background history on you, and it comes back with negative stuff, they are required by law to give you a copy of it so you can see exactly what is showing up and then presumably contest it or write a statement.

Again, it sometimes is just a character study, so work with people that know you and can stand up on your behalf, you should get letters from friends and family, counselors, teachrs who KNOW you and can attest to you as a person for your character. It won't haunt you forever, really it won't. There are always lessons to be learned, sometimes that is all that God wants is for us to learn something. ONce you figure out what he wants YOU to learn, you will see a light at the end of the tunnel. Sorry if this is "preachy", it's what I truly believe and you will be in my thoughts and prayers. God bless you.

Hang in there!!

[PhoenixTech, LPN]

Pixie I sent you a private message.

[Tiger747]

Hi Phoenix,

I think you misunderstood my post a little. Bitter? Absolutely. Who wouldn't be?

What I was trying to convey was that this forum is full of these tales, with relatively few success stories among them.

You mentioned "had I done my research." Well, my crime was not on the list that I was given from the school, the B.O.N., or even on the one given by LTC facilities when you apply.

The only research I am guilty of not conducting is checking out this forum before I decided on nursing school. I would have seen just how far society allows consequences to linger after the debt has been paid.

My attitude is more one of disgust. I was not even convicted of my crime, according to the paperwork my lawyer just pulled up for my expungement. What you are dealing with here in America-- at least recently--- is what Napoleon called the "attitude of negation". It is where a society or individual's first instinctual response is to say "no" rather than "yes". As a fellow Christian you know what I am talking about. It is a matter of the soul. Anyway, Napoleon warned that you cannot do anything with these types of people, societies, or countries.

I am single and dependent on myself. I have no family here, only in Germany. I went to nursing school for practical reasons as well as because I knew my compassion was far away beyond most because of what I have been through. Now, on top of facing homelessness, I have student loans, and the embarrassment of being an unemployed nurse-- an impossibility where I live. BTW, I graduated at the top of my class of 50, and many, many of my fellow students have informed my co-workers at the tax office that I helped them get through school ( I have previous degrees).

I know from cruel experience that often what a person needs is a realist; not a cheerleader. The glass is only half full if someone is approaching with a pitcher of water or storm clouds are above. It is not half full in the Arizona desert.

The best advice I saw on here was from an attorney who responded on one of these threads. He said, "Misdemeanors were never meant to be a cattle brand. Find a career field that does not want to stink up your life." Don't shoot me, I am just the messenger. When the student is ready, the teacher will appear. Perhaps I was a bit too soon. I meant well in trying to save a fellow human the grief I know only too well. This isn't a dress rehearsal. I don't think God wants you to go through what so many on here have, especially after you have been warned. You are looking at odds worse than a lottery. It is straight out gambling with your future. Nursing is a great profession for those with no background. It is just that simple. The school did you a HUGE favor.

[PhoenixTech, LPN]

tiger the point that i'm trying to make to you, as a fellow christian, is this;

" anyway, napoleon warned that you cannot do anything with these types of people, societies, or countries".

no, as people we can't change the attitudes and ideas of others', but god can, and indeed must. left up to my own devices i would drive myself to the brink of despair trying to control and orchestrate everything around me. i have learned that my lord and saviour is directing my path and my only responsibility is to obey him and focus on building my relationship. you think that i wasn't devastated, angry, bitter and rolling in self pity when they called me out of class to tell me i had to withdraw? just take a look at my journal on this site where i detail the whole process. i was livid. however for me, i couldn't stay there. i broke the law 15 and 18 years ago and while there were mitigating factors, i can't blame anyone for my actions. i felt all those worthless, pointless feelings and because of the relationship that god has called me to, i was able to process it and let it go.

"when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. perhaps i was a bit too soon. i meant well in trying to save a fellow human the grief i know only too well."

perhaps it is you who is the student. i don't regret going through this process, i truly feel that i've heard a word from god. no matter what the outcome the journey is what counts. i too believe that the school did me a huge favor because now instead of going for another aas, i'm going for my bsn. listen, there is a lesson and a blessing in every circumstance and as cliché as it sounds i'm praying and wishing for you to find yours.

best wishes to you tiger747

[Karl Farmer]

There is no fairness, and the system is what it is. You are risking years of your life entering a program that may end in despair, not to mention probably huge debt. Ask the BON for a statement that, as things are now with your record, and if that doesn't change, you are eligible for a license after you graduate, otherwise I'd suggest forgetting nursing school.