RN with a BSN - 2 years in - no available jobs. Should I change careers? Help

RNitis · Mar 10, 2013

I'm so sorry you are going through this. Although I do not have any suggestions to make your Job Search better, I just wanted to let you know you are not alone. We have different circumstances, but how you described how your feeling about finding a job and possibly moving to another field, are my feelings exactly. I'm on two years of not working (can't even find a regular job as "I'm overqualified" aka they think I'll leave as soon as I find an RN position). I have postponed my student loans this whole time, my house is close to foreclosure, my electricity has been disconnected and I can't pay to get it back on (thank god I have a woodstove for heat and cooking and that I like camping!). I have no one who can help me regularly, so I'm mostly on my own. I can't afford to go back to school right now as I need a job to pay for gas and such things. I was going through hell when I was going to school, it was all suppose to get better and I was supposed to be able to work and fix my life after I graduated and passed the NCLEX!! It didn't happen that way and things are only getting worse (mortgage company came to my house when I wasn't there for a few days and deemed it vacant, drilled out my locks and changed them and winterized my house!), I was able to get the key for re-entry and explained my situation and that I am intending to keep the house when I find work. It has stalled them a little bit, but I NEED work or I will be homeless to boot in a short time. I have completed hundreds of applications and get no calls back. The people I do get ahold of over the phone state "they need RN's with at least one year of experience" (I have found 2 places who will take "6 months of experience", but that means nothing to me as I have NO RN experience!!) About a year ago, I came to the realization that this was the poorest I have ever been in my life, but the most morally rich. I have had to hold that feeling dear to my heart or I won't pull through. The depression of being unemployed (and feeling unemployable) is enough to send me off the deep end, but I have to keep strong. The Higher Up has a plan for us...wish it would come NOW, but we don't always get what we want, sometimes we just get what we need. I feel as if I'm being punished and I constantly go over in my head what might be wrong with me, but always come to the conclusion that I've just been forgotten about. Just as I thought that, I got a call for an interview at an office last week. I'm up in the air about how it went. It was an unorthodox interview and I was honest, so I'll find out how far that gets you this week. Yesterday, I got a call for an interview next week at a nursing home. Somethings got to give eventually!! Keep your head held high and your spirit bright! Just when you think it can't get any worse, it will, but then right around the corner comes an opportunity...

Vespertinas · Mar 11, 2013

Yeah girl! Stay mobile! If you're willing/able to relocate, it could be best thing that might happen for you. Maybe you'll get hired by a podunk hospital in the middle of nowhere but I bet you'd learn a lot and then from there, you can take that experience anywhere! Maybe even Cali

I got my butt kicked by some back-stabby RNs in NYC too. They're behind us now. They never had your back and never would so it's better to have been relieved of that situation before something worse came along.

bebbercorn · Mar 11, 2013

First of all, I'm so sorry you went through that experience. I am in Long Island and let me tell you, the Job Search is very challenging and the market here is saturated. Just keep trying and doing what you are doing. If you are in NY there are a couple of nursing open houses coming up. One on 3/13 in Melville (nurse.com) and one in NYC on 3/14 (Advance 2013 Job Fair). Be strong and confident. Best of luck.

oldenurselady · Mar 11, 2013

I feel for you. I have a boss that is trying to ruin my 25 years in. I am looking for another job. What nursing has no shortage of is haters. Most people are good, but there are some snakes out there. Stay strong and relocate! I would move if I could. If you are in NY, maybe a move to rural PA would be good. Not too far and away from the big city. I have several friends who work for Gesinger Medical Center. It is a very progressive place and they do take a lot of newbies. My daughter's friend works at Williamsport Hospital and loves it. She graduated three years ago and has been there ever since. It may be boring for you here in the wilderness, but a couple of years to get back on your feet and regain your confidence will be a good thing. I wish you all of the best. (((HUGS))).

Guest343211 · Mar 11, 2013

I too am so sorry about all that your are going through.

I have a question. When you made any changes to the gtt, did you immediately document them?

I won't say that it happens a lot, but I do know of weird things that have happened with some colleagues and me re: heparin gtt infusions. There are people that will sabbotage a nurse. Usually they won't go to the point of risk to the patient, but in some cases it can happen. I have NOT seen this kind of thing in pediatric ICU settings, but I have in adult ICU setting with elderly patients. It sucks when you can't prove anything or when admin or other will not allow you to explore further. These kind of things, at least in my experience, are quite rare. Fortunately, most nurses and docs I've worked with are ethical people.

When the "more ethical"people want to weed you out (The quotes mean the dubious other kind of ethics of working to weed someone out for invalid reasons.), they do it with things like issue of "communication style," he said, she said stuff, issues that fall along that fuzzy area called "fit." Really subjective stuff--or even by using weak systems of measurement--such as looking at one's speed in practice, but they are measured in a way that is inherently more subjective than objective. Preceptor input is often an area where so much subjectivity enters in to things without strong systems of evaluation through objective measures. I'm strongly against so much subjective evaluation; b/c it is often used capriciously, and it becomes more about "I like this one, she/he 'fits' more with our little group," then about buiding a highly efficacious staff.

If you like nursing, and if you feel that you are a competent, ethical, caring, and effective nurse, don't let the nonsense that can occur in nursing stop you. You may have to start from square one. That's OK too. Make a strong plan and see it through.

Also, my two strongest recommendations to people in this field are as follows:

1. Carefully document and keep it up-to-date/hour/minute. If you do anything in terms of tx or something unusual happens, don't wait to document if at all possible. If a code occurs, of course that is different. But I would rather miss lunch or break, and in general, that's not a good practice either b/c it leads to burn-out--and stay and document the change/s or certain observations.

This is especially true in any ICU setting or recovery setting. Anything you do has to be documented in the right manner immediately. It just has to be done. Things in the unit can be fine one second, and all hell breaks out the next. It is different, however, from the ED, in that in the units, you are expected to be on top of the finest as well as the most comprehensive details associated with your patients at all times. This is what makes the unit stressfull. It's not merely cheif complaint focused.

Nurses w/ docs are critically analyzing everything, starting of course with the priority issues and moving down from there. You are accountable for all of it. It's a very anal-retentive environment. You have to think in terms of what are the focused, priority issues, as well as think globally. And this is why, in general, you should only have 1, 2, and really no more than 3 patients. Some pts, as you know, are so sick, that they really need to be 1 nurse to 1 patient, period--and some recoveries I have been in have had 2:1 or even 3:1, nurse to patient ratio, although they are rare--depending upon whether you include the nurse/RT echmo specialists, etc.

It can be intensely treatment-response oriented, and since monitoring is continuous, so is what we do in terms of documentation. The biggest thing I've told new nurses on orientation in an ICU is document what you do immediately. That's why we have flowsheets.

In pedatric units, certain continuous med changes will require that a second nurse completes the calculation, checks the pump, and checks it off in the documentation. It is more time-consuming, but it allows for insight into trends--there are many kinds of physicians and fellows checking the flow sheets all the time--many have multiples of consuling docs, And this can be checked up to each hour or more frequently if the patient is unstable enough or is bordering on the precipice.

I've seen surgeons and fellows flip out if that documentation is not up-to-date for the hour or with any changes. They will look at the flowsheet and look at the pumps, and if there is a discrepency b/c you have been busy, or just made the change, and only have two hands, you will hear about it.

And there is no waiting to tally I & O's at the end of the shift in many peds ICUs, running totals are expected for each hour. When you have a lot of drips in, and many tubes coming out of a kid, just running these hourly totals can take some time; b/c they all have to be documentated accurately each hour. If you aren't careful, at the end of the shift, if you find your overall doesn't match with the running totals, Oy vey, what a mess. There are people that actually detest working some of these ICUs for these kinds of reasons.

So besides learning and doing and following frequent labs, meds, all the other stuff, not to mention admissions and codes, you have to become this hyper-anal recorder of everything all the time. And believe me, there are nurses going over your flowsheets all the time as well. Therefore, any freaking thing you do or anything different you observe in a critical care unit, do yourself a favor and document it right away on the flowsheet in pen. (I recently saw some notes in pencil from a nurse and was preplexed by this.) Verfiy everything in the computer with your initials and always log out under your own UN and Password. Always check and make sure you log-out. If someone asks for your password in a pinch--it happens, even though it shouldn't--call IT or helpdesk or whomever, and get a new password ASAP. I've given passwords for emergency labs in a pinch to those I have trusted, but you have to be careful with this. I have also had people allow me to use their passwords when mine would not work. In general, it's a bad idea, but in a pinch, when you need to get something, well, you do what you have to do for the patient.

2. The second thing I recommend for nurses is to always make sure they have a secondary position. Sure, it means more work for you. You may have to give up yet another weekend for the per diem or PT nursing position. Having it,however, serves to main purposes.

First, if anything goes wrong in your one position, you have another position in which you are current,where you can continue to work and make an income.

Second, you have current experience that you can use as a reference, in case the other job puts out a so/so or questionable reverence. If you have another employer showing that you are doing strong work for them, this can help put into question the dubious reference from the other employer.

Now, if it's an incredibly lame situation, such as you ripped out someone's chest tube and let them bleed out, and there are witnesses to this, well, obviously that is going to the board of nursing for review--and you would probably be brought up on legal charges as well, so, in such an extreme case, having another position may not help you. ( I used something outrageously extreme to make a point. Of course this is not anything that you would do.)

If, however, in general, you can show that you are safe, ethical, and an efficacious practitioners, having another position when another employer may suggest or hint other wise will work in your favor.

I have said this several times at AN. In order to stay working as a nurse, you have to be like the sharks that have to keep moving in order to survive--meaning, you have to keep current with your work, and you have to always be able to demonstrate that you are a competent, safe, ethical, and efficacious clinician.

It also helps to demonstrate you work well with others, and when you have the other place showing that you clearly do, the first place's claim about "fit" or "working with others" will be brought into question. Thus, if an interviewer finds that you meet certain requirments, and they find that you may be a good candidate for a position, if the reference from say job 1 is hazy or dubious, in light of job 2 and your overall presentation, the dubious reference from job 1 carries less weight. See what I mean?

There are people, who, despite the given protocol of "not giving bad references" will say things that could lead a potential employer or HR person to questions your abilities and candidacy. It's a PR game as much as anything else. If references are followed up by way of say phone calls, who is to say how someone might phrase things or the tone they use or a sense of hesitanc??? These games occur all the time, and nurses need to be aware of them. All someone has to do is ask something like, "Is so and so eligible for re-hire?" Well, if a manager says no, is it b/c of something as fuzzy as "fit" or is it b/c of issues of safety or dependability? You see the predicament with that?

Managing your career involves PR skills and contingency planning in my view. If you work in journalism and someone didn't like you work, maybe it's an issue of style. If, however, you are a nurse or a physician or allied health provider, and someone at a place isn't keen on you for highly subjective reasons, the other party doesn't know if it is from safety issue or ethical issues. The implication is stronger in the negative for people that work in direct patient care. If issues of safety and efficacy in practice are one unclear, it would make a potential employer wonder many times. Who is going to hire you if they wonder if you are somehow unsafe? So nurses and docs have to go hard after any hint or suggestion of competence and safety--when of course it is baseless--in order to protect their livelihoods.

Protecting your reputation requires vigilance. I have seen a number of nurses and even some docs (though not nearly as often as with nurses) get pushed out of positions or even healthcare for nonsensical crap. I'm talking about people that were good clinicians.

After witnessing this happen to enough nurses, I say always have another job; b/c the politics in the hospital can be 10X as bad any office politics that happen in any company. Being let go or leaving a place can leave unfair implications, which may ensue from the politics. And these can be 10X as hurtful, b/c people may well assume the break in employment relationship may be due to issues of safety. In fact, that is not often the case, and this is one reason why there are many less board investigations against nurses as compared with terminations. Mostly employers like to cover their orifices with the use of the term "fit." It seems like a good term on the surface, but it is more often than not used in unfair ways against employees.

Good luck.

Benedina · Mar 11, 2013

Okay, you're not old, at all. And you don't have to be washed up. (I'm old, but I'm not washed up either, just to tease you a bit.)

You have a perfectly good story to tell an employer, but you need to take a few deep breaths before any interview and tell the story in a more positive light. Do NOT lie, but certain details ain't nobody's business but your own. (I don't mean it was wrong to share them here, but practice ways of not sharing them in an interview!)

You were a stellar student. You qualified for an excellent extra opportunity, your extern position. So far, so good.

You were hired into an ICU position, but at the time of your father's diagnosis, near the end of your orientation, you stepped back in your job responsibilities in order to be available for him. (This is true, even without the further details that are absolutely important for *you* to reflect on, but not important to share with others.)

The bulk of your nursing work after that has been for your father and in per diem positions, so that you could remain free for your father's care. Also true, and a perfectly reasonable story for employers. You *have* worked over these two years, even while nursing your dad. This is a good thing.

Next, pick experiences, patients, and learning that you've had in all three positions and emphasize strengths and learning. You *nursed* your father: what did you learn about home care? What skills might translate to private nursing, LTC, etc.? You did 5 months in an ICU: what were your *accomplishments* there? (Frankly, the fact that the only satisfaction you mention was patient involvement points to a strength to me that might express itself in behavioral health nursing, hospice nursing, home health, etc., where there are more opportunities to build relationships.) You've done per diem nursing, including PACU! That takes flexibility and strong nursing skills, right?

You have a lot to offer but you need to organize your story around strengths. An excellent resource in helping you do this is a book I recommend to any job seeker: *What Does Someone Have to Do to Get a Job Around Here* by Cynthia Shapiro. Again, never lie: simply take control of what you do and do not want to talk about in a *business* deal. (That's what finding a job means: cutting a deal.)

Will some employers dig deeper and shy away from you? Oh, sure. But Richard Bolles, career consultant, used to point out that you might get 99 nos to get to the one employer who says yes. Almost every job hunter has some reason an employer might say no. You don't care about the 99 nos. You care about the one yes.

Good luck!

Dina

Guest343211 · Mar 11, 2013

Well, I think it depends on the situation. I feel that a number of nurses do not fight for transparency and accountability from former employers. If someone is generally a safe practitioner, they should not have their reputation trampled, but nurses often don't want to incur the legal expenses or go through the stress of litigation. I mean I get that, but it works against other good nurses b/c the employers more often than not get away with this kind of thing.

In general, you won't see docs not fighting or standing up against any hints of questionable safety in practice or any question of issues re: ethics. No, their lawyers are on it, and usually the hospitals keep stuff hush hush. Sure, t hey usually have more money to fight this kind of thing as well

Still, nurses are too easily intimidated.

katherine100, LPN · Mar 11, 2013

HOw would the nurses know the camera was deleted? Did they tell security to delete it? Sounds bizarre. Did you go to your NM or HR or even the legal department to find out about that footage? So much more for you to do. You were sabotaged and set up!

Kristinla · Mar 13, 2013

When it rain it pours. I know how hard things can be when family is sick. I was in nursing school from august 2010 to May 2012 in CA and during my time in nursing school my mom developed breast cancer stage 3, my dad went into liver and kidney failure for 2 months and was in the ICU and to top it all off my grandpa died the weekend before finals 3rd semester and I never repeated a Semester. (Also I am married and have to young kids) My mom and dad are alive and healthy now amazingly!

I passed the NCLEX in July and worked for a local hospital for three month training the surgeons on the new Electronic Medical records system. The hospital and all the doctors LOVED me. I even had surgeon's talking to managers trying to get me hired there. Needless to say the hospital over spent on launching there EMR and was not able to hire me and now just recently laid off 75 people at that hospital.

I have spent months turning in Hundred of application, talking to everyone I know (I know a lot of people in the medical field here) and bugging the poop out of managers still now we are in March and still no job.

So finally came to the realization that there is not jobs here for anyone. I even have an RN friend who I have know my whole life who has been a ED nurse at a childrens hospital here for a few years and tried to get hired in L & D at a different hospital (and she had a friend who was an RN in that department) and she couldn't even get a job. I have also heard that since there is talks of healthcare reform with Obamacare places are not really hiring and are waiting to see what happens there.

The only people I know in Ca who have gotten jobs here are people who already worked somewhere and then got hired there once they were done with school. (Which was even a long process for them, and not all of them got hired.)

The truth here in Ca is that the nursing schools are putting out way too many new grads and there is just not enough jobs. I have spoken with several different HR's and they have about 10 position a year here for new grads and get about 500 applications per job posting.

I have done my research. The best place I have found for job listing is INDEED.com. They have all the listing from all websites and hospitals. The states that I have found so far that are still hiring new grads are VA, SC, AL, SD, WY and TX. I think in today's economy we will probably relocate and have to move to some small rural town to find a job. This is what I have decide to do.

As a fellow new grad this is my best advice. Look in other states where the market is not as saturated with new grads. If you want to end up in CA get your experience and then maybe try travel nursing to CA or wait until the market turns around.

As far as other co-worker go they eat there young out here in Ca too. The best way I have found to combat that is to kill them with kindness, Genuinely people can tell when you are faking it. I know it is a very old saying but it works! I have done this my whole life and still have not found a single person it doesn't work on. I know that it is one of the hardest things to do when you know someone doesn't like you but you HAVE to do this! We do not know everything as new grad's (even though sometimes we may think we do) and the worse thing to do is act like we do. Our best allies are the older nurse's who have been around the block a few times. As a new nurse I am not sure what you did was right or wrong with the drip but the thing I would have done is ask someone. Always double check, ask if you are not 110% sure even if you risks looking like an idiot and everyone hates you. It is better for us to double check than make a fatal error. Also if you have ANY free time while you are working DO NOt sit at the nurse's station talking. Look around and see you can help from the Jaintor to the doctors, even if they are not your patients. This will earn you many friends fast. Hospitals are very big small places where everyone ends up with some sort of reputation and you need to make yours a good one. There is a lot of behind the scenes politics at hospitals which I am still learning about as a new grad also. The more people that like you and have your back the more help you will have and the more valuable you will be to that company. People help people they like and we have to take responsibility for our own actions. Try not look at what everyone else is doing wrong and look at yourself. Self evaluation is one of the hardest things to do (I know I struggle with it) we can not change other people only ourselves and how we react to others. (I think Dr. Phil said this at some point) Same with patients, they do not sue people they like. I have never left a job on bad terms. All you have to do is Help your co-workers, this makes a huge statement and shows everyone you work with that you are nice and a team player and it will be noticed. The more people that you help the more people will be willing to help you. When you are new to any place you have to fit in to have a good working life. The more friends you make and people you help the easier your life will be and the more you will fit it. You know how to help people we are nurse's and that is what we do. Just remember the toughest people/healthcare workers, RN's are usually the ones who know the most and will end of being your best source of information. Most people do not help people for nothing, So be that person who will help anyone for nothing in return and it will pay off. I promise this has ALWAYS worked for me.

Get back out there dust your self off, put the past behind you it can not be change, put on a smile and kill everyone around you with kindness and watch your life change! Hope this helps this is what I am having to do yet again...

We can't walk around with chips on our shoulder we have to let go the past and Keep moving forward! (from Meet the Robinson's I love kid movies!) Learn from our past don't let it hold you down.

I am still having to do this as well, I know it hard but we can get through this and we will be stronger because of it.

Hope all this helps! :)

Kristinla · Mar 13, 2013

P.s. Being a nurse is my dream too and NEVER EVER give up on your dream! I won't and neither should you.

If there is a will there is a way! ( I love quotes!)

PrincessRN101 · May 18, 2013

keep your head up, 24 is young and full of life. nurse's are working up until their 60, 50, all types of age... get into an agency