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Threatened to be Fired for "patient safety" issues.



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No. 30
from Jolie
Old Oct 05, 2008, 04:58 PM

Default Re: Threatened to be Fired for "patient safety" issues.
Originally Posted by crimson and clover View Post
Oh, by the way, our floor was half MRSA positive and I did have to ask occupational health about whether or not I should be working with these people and what my restrictions were. They wouldn't say anything and told me to go to my doc, which I did, and ended up with that 25 pound restriction and to avoid MRSA. Because I wanted to continue working, I never brought in the note and my NM and I pretended I was not on a restriction.
This is the part of your post that concerns me most, because it appears that you voluntarily put yourself and your baby at risk by disregarding your doctor's advice.

"my NM and I pretended I was not on a restriction."

Your manager did not pretend anything. Without formal notification, she had no way to verify nor any reason to follow your doctor's instructions. You chose to deep six the doctor's note because you believed it would have impacted your work situation, which was probably correct. But it is not fair to place responsibility for this onto a manager from whom you deliberately chose to hide the note.

As I said earlier, there is plenty of responsibility on both sides for your unacceptable work situation. Managers do boneheaded things sometimes. Staff nurses make mistakes. I hope that you can all learn from this mess and become better for it. The first step in that process is to acknowledge one's responsibility, and to realize that it is never worthwhile to put oneself or an unborn baby at risk in the process.
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No. 31
Old Oct 05, 2008, 05:10 PM
Updated Oct 05, 2008 at 05:16 PM by crimson and clover

Default Re: Threatened to be Fired for "patient safety" issues.
The only reason I brought up the weight lifting restriction was to illustrate the entire picture. Jolie, I guess I don't know what you mean about putting responsibility for the 25 lb weight lifting restriction on my NM. I believe that she felt like having me around was a hassel and that has contributed to my upcoming board hearing. I never brought in the note because I considered it and decided that if thousands of other pregnant nurses could work in the hospital, why couldn't I? I did get a second opinion on whether that weight lifting restriction was necessary and deduced that maybe it was more a matter of opinion rather than fact- as I got mixed responses from practitioners. I guess my point is that she DIDN'T have to accomodate me, but I still believe the damage to my reputation was done. I was labeled as a "problem employee" at the start because of pregnancy-related issues.
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No. 32
Old Oct 05, 2008, 06:44 PM

Default Re: Threatened to be Fired for "patient safety" issues.
This forum has been very helpful for my to muddle through what has happened and to learn from my errors, both in terms of nursing and in terms of the politics of nursing and starting your first job. I suppose I drift back to the original question that brought me to the forum and that was my concern that there was merit to the allegations. I can totally accept that I should have kept my mouth shut about the pregnancy and picked my battles when I went to the union. What I would have had difficulty accepting is that I am just not cut out for nursing because I am incapable of performing my duties safely, which seems to be what my NM is alleging.
As far as the job goes- I couldn't be happier to never see my NM again and I really don't mind too much starting over somewhere else. But I feel like I couldn't go through an ordeal similar to this one again and wonder if I shouldn't just give it up.
It sounds like from the posts I have received that although mistakes HAVE been made, I am not necessarily unsafe, rather the situation is complicated by poor management, inadequate training, and starting my job with medical issues. Thanks for all of your responses
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No. 33
from Jolie
Old Oct 05, 2008, 07:14 PM

Default Re: Threatened to be Fired for "patient safety" issues.
I am impressed by your final post. You clearly are trying to learn from a bad situation, and not just make excuses for your mistakes or blame your manager. I am certain that you will learn and grow from this experience.

Given my optimism for your future in nursing, I'd like to offer a little advice based on years of experience as both the staff nurse and the manger. If you come to an agreement with your employer to amicably part company, I would suggest immediately requesting a reference letter (written on hospital letterhead and co-signed by your manager and HR) to take with you. That way, you can bring the original to future interviews, allow the interviewer to copy it for your file, and have no reason to think that your former employer will try to screw you over by labeling you "ineligible for re-hire."

At the time you apply for future positions, you will be a new mother. Be aware that it is not proper or legal for an interviewer to ask about your marital status or inquire about children. If a manager tries to pursue this line of questioning, simply smile your best smile and state, "I'm sure you are aware that this is not an appropriate question. I would like to discuss my professional qualifications, not my personal life, since that has no bearing on my ability to provide excellent patient care." This is a very difficult stance for an inexperienced candidate to take. Practice it. Rehearse the line! Don't allow the interviewer to take you into personal matters, and don't go there yourself. If you mention your family obligations, you make the topic fair game, when it otherwise would not be.

Practice your answer to the questions about your gap in employment without mentioning your new baby. It is OK to say that you needed time off to focus on a personal issue (that is now resolved) but don't state specifically what that issue is. Another way interviewers have to find out personal information is to ask about your hours of availability. They may ask if you are limited due to childcare needs. Simply state the hours that you are and are not available and don't offer any information as to why you can't work 24/7.

Best of luck to you. Enjoy your baby!
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No. 34
from justme1972
Old Oct 06, 2008, 08:08 PM

Default Re: Threatened to be Fired for "patient safety" issues.
Originally Posted by crimson and clover View Post
Yeah, I don't really expect to be keeping this job, and what IS important to me is learning from this experience and taking that with me in the future. Hopefull2009, you are absolutely right that my union involvement may have been excessive and setting me up for failure. True, it's not fair, but look what happened.
I guess I am hesitant though to use this hospital as a reference. I DID learn a lot there, but at the same time, they are alleging that I practice unsafely and don't follow procedures. Plus, I've got a board hearing that I can choose to not attend, but honestly, I really want my side of the story out there and don't want to concede to their allegations, although I have a feeling that they WILL side with the NM and that it's hopeless.
I don't see how hiring an attorney (I have a consultation only right now) for advice on this matter could affect future jobs.
You are very welcome.

Just remember that companies only have unions because once they have formed, it's against the law to disband them and not all unions are created equal.

A great example is the auto-workers union...yeah, some of them get $35 an hour for pulling a lever all day, but they have also priced themselves out of a job...b/c cars have went up much higher than salaries and now you are lucky to drive one that will outlast the payments. That is why foreign cars do so well here...b/c they don't have to pay for that stuff overseas.

Also, be sure to carry individual malpractice insurance on yourself. The hosptal only covers you if you follow procedure...which means if you make a God-honest mistake or they unjustly accuse you of something...it's up to you to foot the bill for it.

It's a myth that a nurse is more likely to get sued if she has it...first, there is no national database to search for that information, second, you don't have to answer a single question an attorney asks you...including if you have insurance or not, and third, if nurses were more likely to get sued, insurance would cost a heck of alot more than just a couple hundred a year...ESPECIALLY for new grads.
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No. 35
Old Oct 08, 2008, 09:44 PM

Default Re: Threatened to be Fired for "patient safety" issues.
Yes, I realize malpractice insurance would have been very helpful in this situation by making available legal advice. At this time, I decided going to a peer review board hearing and potentially being terminated was a bigger risk than I was willing to take. I did consult with an attorney who basically suggested that I quit because a resignation would be easier to explain than a termination. Obviously, though, I'd rather leave this off my resume.
However, I believe that the facility is required to report me to my BON as I resigned amid potential charges. But as I and others have said, I have not stolen medication, come to work high/drunk, abused anyone or done anything like that. So hopefully no action will be taken against my license. I've only been licensed for 7 months!
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No. 36
Old Oct 09, 2008, 10:11 AM

Default Re: Threatened to be Fired for "patient safety" issues.
I don't believe the malpractice would have covered you since a patient is not suing you.

Are you resigning, you were unclear to me in your response. I would not leave this off your resume. May people do not have a good fit with their first position, this in not uncommon. Is there anyone a new employer could call, a preceptor, a supervisor, or a charge nurse would could verfiy your employment.

I don't think if you resign they will report you to the board,if you go to the hearing and find you at fault you, adminstration may request the board be notified.

Good luck with new baby and a new position, perhaps a per diem position while pregnant would be a win win situation.
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No. 37
Old Oct 10, 2008, 07:32 PM

Default Re: Threatened to be Fired for "patient safety" issues.
I did resign, effective tomorrow, actually. I do have preceptors that would be references for me. During my orientation, I was actually shuffled around quite a bit, so I can count pretty much every nurse on my floor as a preceptor (including the LPNs). I am an RN.
Thanks for the encouragement. I am two weeks from my due date at this time, so I plan to worry about looking for other employment following a lengthy "maternity leave".
I spoke to an attorney, who was actually representing the hospital that I work for and he told me that they often send these reports as a formality. I also looked at my BON website and they state that if a nurse resigns in the face of a peer board review hearing, that is cause to be reported. Plus since my manager is alleging that I am unsafe, I think she is a mandated reporter. However, I believe that she should have reported any medication errors in a timely manner and since it has been months since I made any errors (with the exception of one), I don't think there is anything to be done about my performance while I was orienting.
Plus, the attorney at the hospital told me that what they would send to the BON is the memorandum my NM put together. The first two pages of the memorandum are dedicated to issues surrounding my pregnancy, like I requested to leave early due to a prenatal appointment and I was concerned about contact isolation. To me, that is not something that I should be disciplined for. Or even something to be taken seriously by the BON. If I was reviewing the memorandum (which does not include incident reports, even), I would probably dismiss it because it makes no sense.
I swear if I had more energy, I would fight this thing. But as it stands, this facility is sub-par and the education I received is indicative of that.
I think the malpractice insurance would have been helpful so that I could get free legal counsel from my insurer.
The next position I take will have to provide extensive training appropriate to the novice nurse, as I am never putting my reputation in jeopardy again.
I mean, I should have been given more training the moment management noticed that I was not aware of many of the policies and procedures!
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No. 38
Old Oct 10, 2008, 07:59 PM

Default Re: Threatened to be Fired for "patient safety" issues.
Good luck with your new arrival. If you are reported to the BON ( I suspect they won't since you resigned) you need to fight it. But by that time you will have the strength to fight it.

Chalk this up to a bad first job, your next will be better.
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No. 39
Old Oct 24, 2008, 01:54 PM

Default Re: Threatened to be Fired for "patient safety" issues.
Well, I just got a letter from my former employer summarizing their reasons for reporting me to the BON. They say that I can respond to the accusations within 14 days or they will decide independently whether or not to report me. I am afraid to make any further contact with them and fear that I may need legal advice at this point. I just got my license in February of this year! Anyone have any thoughts/advice?
And on top of it all, my baby is due any day now!
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