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| No. 20 | 
Dec 09, 2004, 05:03 PM
The day this system goes into effect anywhere I work , I am out of there . How scary ! I know myself that I have to still look up a med or two .How would they even know the patho phys that goes along with some of these meds . How scary .
 | | Advertisement Sponsored Links | | | | No. 21 |
Dec 21, 2004, 10:09 PM
Originally Posted by VickyRN In North Carolina, there is a controversial new proposal by our board for a Medication Aide. This is an unlicensed person who will be able to administer medications in acute care facilities after only a 9-week or so course.
See links: http://www.ncbon.com/Education-factsheet.asp
Of course, this wonderful "med aide" (who will undoubtedly be payed minimum wage) is operating under the RN or LPN's license: "As defined in nursing law and rule, the licensed nurse may only delegate technical components of medication administration to unlicensed personnel. Nursing judgment and decision making related to when or if a medication would be administered by the med aide and monitoring the client’s response to medications are responsibilities of the licensed nurse that may not be delegated to assistive personnel."
This med aide position, if enacted, will undoubtedly put many LPN's out of work across the state of North Carolina. This new unlicensed position will also endanger the practice of many RN's across the state. Can you imagine the nightmare of being responsible for 30 patients and having medication aides dispensing medications right and left under your license?
I personally feel very disappointed and puzzled by the actions of our board, right now. I know that our board was never meant to be the "nurse's friend;" like all state boards it exists to protect the interests of the public from nurses who are incompetent and to ensure "safe, effective nursing care." Our board is unique in that it is elected (the only one out of 50 states elected by the nurses of the state)--and we NC nurses have always been very proud about this. However, this latest action goes directly against the interests of the public in our state and will make nursing practice in our state very unsafe indeed.
Remind me to stay out of North Carolina! That sounds deadly to me! That is just another reason nurses (RN's and Lpn's) need to band together and form unions and quit being the ones who are used and abused! There is still to much animosity between the two groups. I am an RN and I know some really terrific Lpn's, two of whom are my cousins! Lpn's are for the most part wonderful nurses and can teach us a thing or two, just as we can teach them a thing or two. We need to stand as sister nurses for a change and defend one another. I have found some RN's who should never have become a nurse and some Lpn's who are so much more of a nurse than these, and vice versa. I also know some really competent CNA's and CMA's. But, I would not bank my license on turning the meds over to someone who probably doesn't even understand the side effects or reason for a patient getting these meds. I know I would not want my med handed to me by someone like that. Certainly, I would not want my family to have meds given by anyone other than a qualified nurse. I think if they are going to train people to be CMA's they need at least a 6 to 8 month training and be regularly tested. This being only for pills. Nothing else. Even a seasoned nurse can make a med error. So imagine the more mistakes by people who aren't even trained correctly. I worked in Texas for nearly 2 years and met some really good CMA's in one nursing home there. But there was at least one CMA that I would have been afraid to allow the use of the med cart!
| | No. 22 |
Dec 21, 2004, 10:23 PM
 They Are Talking About The Same Thing Here In Oh. Scarey Thought. If You Don't Know Side Affects, What Will Happen. Fall On The Nurse In Charge?!
| | No. 23 |
Dec 22, 2004, 01:26 AM
This trend is very frightening. You see the movement rapidly going across the country. This is another good reason for this BB, to keep all of us informed and to see what's coming around the corner. Amazing, and nurses/nursing appears unable to stop it...this is probably the scariest part about it all...unable to stop it. I can't tell you how many times I've held a med each day due to a patient's symptomatology. I can't tell you how many times I've had to look up a med in a drug book or call our pharmacy each day regarding meds, compatability, substitutions, adverse/side effects, and drug interactions. I as a nurse, who has been around for awhile, still do this DAILY. I can't imagine how a CMA/CNA/UAP can understand the complexity of meds...even with their so called orientation or training. It is frightening...just plain frightening. I've heard the rationale too, which Mattsmom brought up, that the use of CNAs is like what family would do at home. This rationale blows my mind. Folks....this is NOT Home!!!! And patients deserve better, especially if they pay a pretty price for being there in the first place. There needs to be some counter-movement some way...to get the message out to how unsafe and dangerous this practice is for having CNA/CMA/UAP giving meds out. They DO NOT have NURSING JUDGEMENT. They also do not have the authority to question NOT to give a med. I can see the rationale now if a CNA/CMA/UAP did express some judement. The response could possibly be..."just pass the d*** pill. You're not being paid to think"...which would be true!!!! Frightening. The writing is on the wall. LPNs are in danger of losing their practice. The other frightening aspect to this movement is...what is to prevent the same from happening to RNs down the near road. RNs...we need our brother and sister LPNs...for our own sake.
| | No. 24 |
Dec 22, 2004, 06:21 AM
 Phasing out LVN's Originally Posted by BJ, LPN  I have been an LPN for 36 years. For the last 20 I have heard talk
of phasing out LPN's. When I read the local paper all I see is CNA, and
CMA ads. For all my years I have been a charge nurse or in charge.
just exactly what does the medical community think these largely untrained persons will take the place of LPN's and they won't have to pay them.
Well, I hope and pray that this does not happen. Anyone out there agree.
Or do you think LPN's should be phased out and there just be Rn's and
cna's.
What makes me so mad is that the doctors can pull anyone off the street and train them as an "MA" they obviously take the responsibitly under their license. LOL I wouldn't want someone like that treating my family members.
| | No. 25 |
Dec 22, 2004, 09:17 AM
Yikes!!! There is no way that I would let an aide pass meds under my license. I mean in nursing homes seems like they rule the roost. putting in caths etc. i mean why am I even going to school? I am sorry to be so rude but aides need to stick to B & Bs (baths and bathrooms) ADls only. I found it funny that in nursing school we are taught that you are never to pass meds that another nurse pulled but they will allow uneducated people to pass them that probably can't pronounce, say what it does, or side effects. I am sorry but an aide is an aide. I talk to a hospital in my area and she said that i could work a as a tech after the first semester. she said i could start before the semester but i would have to be an aide and that would be a waste of my skills because aides there do ADLs only. I am sure they will see me as a threat but oh well.
my 2
Kris
| | No. 26 |
Dec 22, 2004, 10:13 AM
Originally Posted by VickyRN Shameful how we as a society treat our elders.
Isn't that the truth...do you really believe this would be allowed to go on on a pedi floor or a nursery. I know this is moslty applied to nursing homes but if it does become in the hospital environment...
| | No. 27 |
Dec 22, 2004, 11:24 AM
This is a dangerous situation. Instead of fixing the outmoded and broken down healthcare system, they further complicate the lives of nurses by hiring UAP. No matter what new designation of healthcare worker is created to ease the nursing shortage, RN's are still ultimately responsible for the actions of UAP and LPN's. This was made very clear to me when I was visited at work by a State Board of Nursing official. An LPN made an error and I was blamed. When I protested, pointing out that she was licensed and had 10 years more nursing experience than I had, they said "Too bad...you're the RN, and you're responsible." So, I am ultimately responsible for the actions of everyone even those minutely involved in patient care on my floor, excluding other RN's. Unrealistic, unreasonable, and not worth it. Originally Posted by eagnd Recently Read That They Want To Make It Legal For Extra Staff To Also Pass Some Medications Due To The Nursing Shortage. I Find This Rather Scarey. About 8 Years Ago I Was Working And A Cna Came To Me And Said A Pt Was To Tired To Go To Lunch So She Was Going To Let Her Sleelp Awhile More..as I Entered The Room I Found The Pt. Going In To Diabetic Shock Symptoms Were Very Obvious To The Trained Nurse. I Realize There Is A Nursing Shortage And Rn's Are Becoming Very Involved With More And More Responsibilities...........lpn's Are Vital And Are Recieving More And More Education........lets Hope This Is Realized To Many Lives Would Be At Risk... | | No. 28 |
Dec 22, 2004, 11:47 AM
[quote=BJ, LPN] I have been an LPN for 36 years. For the last 20 I have heard talk
of phasing out LPN's. When I read the local paper all I see is CNA, and
CMA ads. For all my years I have been a charge nurse or in charge.
just exactly what does the medical community think these largely untrained persons will take the place of LPN's and they won't have to pay them.
Well, I hope and pray that this does not happen. Anyone out there agree.
Or do you think LPN's should be phased out and there just be Rn's and
cna's.[/QUOTE
RNs are responsible for the actions of anyone under their supervision. If a CNA is "licensed" to pass meds where I worked I would write a formal notice to my Board , the medical director, and the managing group that I refuse to accept the responsibility of the CNA due to the lack of knowledge of side effects, etc.,etc. Then I would go elsewhere. I've been there a long long time and I still have to keep my med book handy. As to phasing out LPNs, I think this is stupid. LPNS are valuable members of the nursing community. It's just a matter of finances because, as I've been told, "RNs can do more and we can save money". To he-- with money, what about the patients' safety? If you think your board is backing this decision then find out straight from the horse's mouth, which is what I plan to do. We are all licensed nurses and we need to start standing up for ourselves. Get involved with nursing organizations and have your voice heard. Good luck to all of us.
| | No. 29 |
Dec 22, 2004, 11:52 AM
I'm just wondering, as an LPN, if I were working in a facility where CMTs were allowed to pass out medications, that I were to refuse to hand a CMT the keys to the medication cart?
I know this is just a hypothetical question and there could be alot of different situations this could occur under, but what if an LPN or RN did refuse?
They would undoubtedly have to pass the meds themselves, but what is the alternative.....allow an unlicensed person to pass under MY or under YOUR license?
I worked too hard to get my license, and I can't see being responsible for CMTs.
I know, as previously posted, that the RN is ultimately responsible even for LPNs mistakes......but I can attest to the fact that LPNs also suffer the consequences of making a mistake. I've had to write a medication error before, same as anyone...we are not perfect. It goes on my personnel record.
What consequences is a CMT going to suffer?
In Arkansas, I don't think we are using CMTs as widely as some other states. I know for a fact that many years ago the facility I work in USED to allow aides to pass out the medication. But they stopped that, and started hiring all LPNs to do the job. I work in Developemental/Disabilities.
I searched my SBN last night and their policy is that the person receiving the medication MUST be able to follow the directions on the label. The type of people I work with canNOT read. They have been trained one way to administer their own medications, and if the doctor should increase or decrease the dosage then that person has to be retrained. WHO, is doing that retraining?? I have helped train some of these people before they were discharged into a homelike setting, called "group homes", but I know for a fact that most of these people can't read.
I figure there is more than just assisting going on.
What can we, as nurses, do about this?
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