Patient/Family Rage

Nurses Safety

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Kalico

151 Posts

Specializes in NICN.
If you asked the nurse to stop digging in your arm, there is no excuse for her to have continued. I don't know what she was thinking, but she does need a refresher in patient right to refuse care. I agree, too, that a lot of medical staff do not listen to patients and they should be listening.

However, abuse of people in service professions HAS increased since 1988, as has the 'entitlement' attitude. Many more people today seem to feel that they should get to do whatever they want whenever they want to do it, regardless of how it will affect those around them. When I was a teenager in school in the 80's, no student I was acquainted with would have even THOUGHT about bringing a gun to school to shoot other people, or a knife to settle a score. We weren't saints, and there was a huge problem with drug and alcohol use, fighting, and rampant sexual experimentation, as there is today. But today's kid is more out of control in the classroom and allowed to be so. The same is applying to the public at large where a temper tantrum is seen as a normal thing that has nothing to do with the one throwing the tantrum. It boils down to personal responsibility. No one seems to be required to have it anymore. Now we can all blame everyone else for our behavior! That's a pretty sweet deal......that means that those who stand in our way and demand 'respect' are wrong because we have the right to be disrespectful, by golly. Hey, if I want to kill someone, it's really his/her fault if I do, because he/she MADE me do it by looking at me wrong. Human nature may not change in 18 years, but societies do. And society is reflected in helping professions such as teaching and nursing. A teacher from 1988 who hasn't been in the classroom since then really has no idea about what is happening in today's classroom. I imagine the same is true of nursing.

:yeahthat: ITA

DidiRN

3 Articles; 781 Posts

Specializes in ICU, step down, dialysis.

You know, you also could have jerked your arm away too...it's nearly impossible to start an IV on someone who it jerking their arm away. That certainly would have been my first reaction instead of threats. Instead you felt it appropriate to threaten physical violence. Sorry I still don't agree or condone what you just did.

Let me explain something to you. The RN in question was holding my right fist, while digging into my arm with an angiocath. My left hand was busy holding a nebulizer, I was in the middle of an asthma attack. And I very calmly asked her to stop her digging the first time. She did not, in fact she ignored me. The second request was made with a little more force and a bit louder. Again she ignored me and keep digging. The third request, which was made very loudly, "if you don't stop digging in my arm, I am going to smack you". That certainly got her attention, and the attention of another RN and physician who had treated me in the past. She was instructed to leave the room and both asked me what the problem was. They did not take her side and the other RN started the IV on her first try. The other nurse apologized for the behavior of the first. I told her that HER apology was not necessary and perhaps the offending one could stand an inservice on patient rights.

As for my lack of empathy towards my peers. I have little empathy for nurses who fail to meet their patient's needs, be they physical or emotional. And I have very little empathy for nurses who assume that they are always right and the patient never is. And I have always had this attitude. I have always approached my patients with an empathic attitude. And when I have had a negative encounter, with a patient, and cannot defuse the situation, I tell the patient I will get another nurse who may be able to help him I may not have done any active nursing, since 1988 but people, patients, have not changed that much but nurses sure have. To a lot of them, nursing is just a job, a pay check. And they carry that attitude to the bedside. And if they do not think that a patient cannot pick up on it, they are very mistaken.

Grannynurse

People most certainly have changed.I'm sure as a health care consumer you have seen a decrease in quality of care, as have myself. But the public as whole has changed too. As another poster above went into, a sense of entitlement, rudeness, etc. Not just in health care, but everywhere we see it.

CyndieRN2007

406 Posts

Specializes in Occ health, Med/surg, ER.

You know, you also could have jerked your arm away too...it's nearly impossible to start an IV on someone who it jerking their arm away. That certainly would have been my first reaction instead of threats. Instead you felt it appropriate to threaten physical violence. Sorry I still don't agree or condone what you just did.

The nurse should have stopped when you asked her too. Sure. You being an RN, did you stop to think if she was a novice nurse? Not all people hit the IV stick the first time.... you understand that....Dont get me wrong, you had the right to refuse the IV. Being a nurse, you understood why you needed the IV and the consequence of refusing. You were having an asthma attack when she was trying to start the IV, she should have waited. However, it seems to me you would have remembered of when you had to fish around for a vein, and you could of had some compassion for the nurse. You could have said, hey, its uncomfortable for you to fish for the vein, could you get another nurse to try? Or, doesnt look like your gonna hit the vein, please stop. If you had enough energy to threaten her during an asthma attack, you could have told her nicely to stop. IMO.

pickledpepperRN

4,491 Posts

:California Board of Registered Nursing Position Statement Regarding Violence Against Nurses - http://www.rn.ca.gov/practice/pdf/npr-b-11.pdf

SweetieRN

67 Posts

I find that most family members are stressed out about their loved ones being in the hospital. I was appalled when one night a patient called me and asked if she could get one of those "chairs that turned into a bed" for her grandmother, who was staying overnight with her. It took me 10 minutes to find one and gather up a pillow, blankets, etc. The patient was so exicited, because she said the nurse last night wouldn't bring one and her grandma had to sleep on the floor :nono: I find that shameful. It took a few extra moments out of my shift, but it made the patient and her grandma happy and it turned an otherwise negative situation into a positive one. I don' t mind requests like that, but the ones that irritate me are the ones who want me to "fetch" snacks, drinks, and ice for all their visitors! That's where I draw the line. I direct them to the cafeteria or the nearest vending machine!

pickledpepperRN

4,491 Posts

I think we need to be as kind and understanding as possible. I am very glad to go out of my way for patients and their loved ones.

I also firmly believe that barring a life or death unanticipated situation the patient has every right to refuse treatment before it is rendered. If a patient asked me not to start an IV I would find another nurse.

Only once have I been injured by a hypoxic patient who kicked my cheek while I was putting the 100% non rebreather on his face. With an increased O2 level that patient wouldn't hurt a nurse.

I've also worked in the jail ward of a county facility. I was very glad for the security because those patients bragged about their gang activities. Members of rival gangs who could talk yelled threats at each other all night. Glad for the visitor screening.

BUT violence against nurses, particularly mental health workers is second only to police. A real safety issue.

OSHA - http://www.osha.gov/Publications/osha3148.pdf

http://www.osha.gov/

"Of the estimated 1,000 murders and 1.5 million assaults in the workplace every year, about two-thirds occur in health care settings, said Anderson, who has written magazine articles on workplace violence." - http://www.nurseweek.com/news/features/01-04/violence.asp

Nurse killed in hospital - http://www.thisislondon.com/news/londonnews/articles/5363473

..."Over 80 percent of all assaults on R.N.s go unreported. It's rampant," says Lanza, whose decade of research on the subject underlies the Occupational Safety and Health Administration's current voluntary safety guidelines. In general, hospital administrators reportedly have little interest in investigating assaults, which they know will mean high costs in insurance, workers' compensation and public relations, Lanza says. All too often, nurses refrain from reporting assaults for fear of being blamed or losing their livelihood." - http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2001/07/27/nurses/

WORKPLACE VIOLENCE IN HEALTH CARE - http://nursingworld.org/ojin/topic25/tpc25_6.htm

Minnesota Nurses’ Study - http://oem.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/61/6/495#R10

Hospital staff protest at poor security - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/430262.stm

When will administrators listen? - http://www.nysna.org/news/press/pr2003/112403.htm

A recent thread here on "allnurses.com" - https://allnurses.com/forums/f50/violence-against-nurses-125035.html#post1360506

fergus51

6,620 Posts

I may not have done any active nursing, since 1988 but people, patients, have not changed that much but nurses sure have. To a lot of them, nursing is just a job, a pay check.

Grannynurse

That just isn't my experience or the experience of a lot of nurses I work with. I can't imagine anyone doing this job just for the paycheck. Many of my colleagues DO think patients have changed a lot since they started nursing as well, so I would think that a lot of things change in 20-30 years.

Ruby Vee, BSN

17 Articles; 14,030 Posts

Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
i have not worked in 28 years. so what. i do not believe that human dynamics have changed that much since i last practiced. and i have been a patient, in four different hospitals, in four different states. and i have yet to encounter the customer service mode you have. with one exception, when i first moved here to florida. and it was in a for-profit hospital and i quit after 7 months. and i wonder where several posters are coming from and why they remain in practice, if their jobs are that dangerous and lacking any reward. if one feels that threatened and lacking that much support, perhaps they should find something else to earn a living at.

grannynurse

i think we've already established, by virtue of the fact that you haven't worked as a nurse in nearly two decades, that you haven't the perspective to encounter the "customer service mode." your credentials as a patient, frankly, don't count for much in that respect, especially when you're posting on a nursing board to nurses who are actively practicing their profession.

this board is where we nurses come to share viewpoints, and sometimes to ventilate about patients and their families. this thread was started to discuss the inappropriate sense of entitlement and the deplorable behavior that some patients and their families exhibit, and how it seems to be on the increase in recent years. you admit that you haven't been working as a nurse in recent years. it seems that you have quite a bit of anger toward nurses and the nursing profession, and seem to lack empathy for nurses. it makes me wonder why you choose to come to a nursing board and post your venom about nurses. just trying to stir the pot?

DusktilDawn

1,119 Posts

Excellent links Spacenurse!!!!

"In the state of Massachusetts, it's a felony to attack an E.R. doctor," workplace violence expert Marilyn Lanza points out, "but only a misdemeanor to assault a nurse."

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2001/07/27/nurses/

Now why would it only be a misdemeanor to assault nursing staff working within the same environment as a doctor? This is the attitude I'm talking about. Even those that pass state legislature in Massachusetts believe it is not a big deal to assault nurses, hence the lesser charge. This is the attitude that is the biggest hurdle: a nurse should be expected to be injured/abused on the job, or that it's part of the job. Until we as nurses and those who employ us see it differently, violence and abuse will continue.

Nurse Ratched, RN

2,149 Posts

Specializes in Geriatrics/Oncology/Psych/College Health.

PLEASE everyone. This thread has shifted to focusing on attacking a single poster. I am asking this to cease. Any additional off-topic posts or responses to attacks will be deleted. If you don't feel that someone's opinion is valid, ignore it.

Home Health Columnist / Guide

NRSKarenRN, BSN, RN

10 Articles; 18,300 Posts

Specializes in Vents, Telemetry, Home Care, Home infusion.

Does your institution have a plan for "us?" as well as "them?"

Being in home care, we are a little different but we do address this issue by referral screening. We WILL NOT ACCEPT any referral for our agency that indicates patient was abusive, drug activity suspected or pt verbally abusive to nurse. We have a safety policy that staff follow. Any patient we find harassing/threatening staff, non compliant, drug activity, guns in the home, verbally abusive to staff, we flag name in our computer system and situation must change (like going to other family/group home etc) in order for us to accept patient back.

One 27yo quad from our SNF with stage 4 sacral decub who was a handful voicing his rights and exposing himself) was informed by my discharge planning staff that if sexually inappropriate in the home we would pull out and we did. He landed up back in another hospital, a different SNF and when referral made again this week due to flag, we refused patient.

No nursing personnel should have to put up with irate abusive families.

I just came home from the hospital, after having suffered a severe asthma attack yesterday morning. My daughter to me into the old St Joes, the same ER where an experienced nurse keep digging in my arm. The volunteer was very nice, getting me a wheelschair, getting the triage nurse to come out and take a look at me, and taking me back for treatment. The two RNs, who helped me, were professional and hit a vein on his first try. The doctor was excellent as well. Because I was in status I had to be admitted. The staff nurses, on the floor, treated me professionally and met my respiratory and diabetic needs. Because I was on IV Solu Medrol, my blood sugars were running 400 and 500 plus. I was taken off it this morning but as a good nurse knows it will impact my blood sugars for two to three days. At 5pm my blood sugar was 405 and the covering physician wanted me to stay another two hours. We had discussed it when he had seen me and he knew I would sign out AMA, which I did. I have gone home with high blood sugars before and my respiratory status has been all right. I am sure that some will question my singing out AMA but it was my decision. I am more concerned about my respiratory status and it is all right now. I will manage my blood sugars with the covering physician's help. My blood sugar is 350 and I have covered it. And called his service to let him know.

For those of you who have taken me to task over my threat, that is your right. It is also my right to threat anyone who does not stop hurting me when I have requested her to stop twice. And I suspect you will take me to task for signing out AMA. That is my right as well and if anything adverse happens it will fall on my shoulders, where it belongs.

Grannynurse:nurse:

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