Is English required to be an RN? - page 8

I have noticed from day one in here that many RNs use some of the poorest English and grammar I have ever seen. I am sure that we were required to take English as a requirement to graduate from... Read More

  1. by   BORI-BSNRN
    Quote from zicovico
    I think you are somewhat being judgmental. It is completely wrong and incomprehensible to judge someone's ability to perform based on his or her poor English and grammar. There is a clear distinction between practical and theory. Let's get that straight. The RNs who may not have all the grammar in the world may be the very best when it comes to the practical applications of medical concepts and principles. I already sense some sentiments in a person of your nature. If I were an LPN or CNA, I wouldn't work for you.
    :hatparty: Excellent Zicovico!!! Did you get that JailhouseRN????
    ...and the sadiest thing here is that you will find pleople like that everywhere!
  2. by   leslie :-D
    actually there's another thread going on about professionalism and nursing..
    it's the total package.

    i agree that a nurse can be top notch in performance but lack proper grammar. i still don't agree with it on a professional level.

    i was born and raised in america, yet few have total command of the english language. the least we can do is chart/document on a high school level which includes grammar and spelling. to me that is another part of the 'professional presentation' of nsg.

    as i've said already, the bb is different.

    leslie
  3. by   Jay-Jay
    I have no problem with poor grammar and spelling . Where I draw the line is when someone's skill in English is so poor that they are a danger to the patients. Last fall, my dad, who was in a nursing home, suffered a stroke. Just after the stroke, I found out one of the medications he was on might have triggered it (Resperidal). I tried THREE TIMES to explain to the foreign-born nurse who was on duty that day why I did not EVER want him put back on that medication again. The physiotherapist (also foreign-born, but with much, much better English skills) also tried to help her understand. To this day, I'm not sure we got through to her.

    Bloody dangerous! This particular RPN's communication and interpersonal skills were so poor that my blood pressure went up a couple of notches EVERY time I had to talk with her!
    Last edit by Jay-Jay on Jul 20, '04
  4. by   WatERkoOL
    Quote from NewbieNurse2005
    Hi,

    I'm still relatively new to this site, and I was reading this thread; I found it most interesting. I find it childish to "nit pick" about the boards' spelling and grammar. It's not as if this site is a place to show off your professionalism. It is a place to ask questions, post thoughts, and of course give your opinions to the fore mentioned things. I can see how it can be annoying to see a grammar error or two, but look at it this way; If they were illiterate they wouldn't be in this field. I know that spelling and grammar do count as one of the many requirements needed to pass practical nursing courses, so I assume the same to be true for Rn's.
    i agree with u
  5. by   Wanna_be_a_Nurse
    Quote from Jailhouse RN
    I have noticed from day one in here that many RNs use some of the poorest English and grammar I have ever seen. I am sure that we were required to take English as a requirement to graduate from nursing school. Did we leave it in the classroom, or is it that it was never really learned? I see from the charts I read at work that the case is the same in actual practice. I see so much chatroomease that it makes me sick to read some of the postings in here. Are we professionals that want to sound the part or simply chatroom fools? I for one at least try to sound and act professional. As RNs we have a reputation to be knowledgable and professional. Where are you?
    Are you talking about this board? Maybe they do not want to check their grammar and spelling because this is supposed to be a laid back message board. If it was in a college class, then yes, correct grammar and English should be presented. But this is a message board! I know many people don't pay attention to their grammar that much when they are in a message board. If they forgot a period, so what? Are you going to say that they are stupid if they do that?
  6. by   vemiliob
    It is so funny, one can believe that proper language in nursing (writing and speaking) is just an endemic problem however I can assure you that this much more universal than one could expect.

    We have a large group of nurses coming from bordering countries, mostly from Chile and Bolivia, nevertheless I guess the write and speak Spanish better than we do. The fact here is that we are considered almost illiterate, famous for our grammatical errors and horrors. A famous phrase from our medical director is that nurses are just "Cetaceous" (Specially related to the pejorative qualifying of "Whales").

    Now I said it is funny because I have two reasons to be a member of this board. The main one is just to exercise my English-writing and the second one is because we don't have a local board where to discuss our daily troubles, because Argentinean nurses suffer from a chronic decease called "lack of unity".

    To end I will say that I would be lost without a text processor not only in English but in Spanish too, although I cannot be considered an illiterate person. From my sixth's ahead I don"t remember a period of my life without studying something. :hatparty:
    Last edit by vemiliob on Jul 24, '04
  7. by   leslie :-D
    Quote from vemiliob


    Now I said it is funny because I have two reasons to be a member of this board. The main one is just to exercise my English-writing and the second one is because we don't have a local board where to discuss our daily troubles, because Argentinean nurses suffer from a chronic decease called "lack of unity".
    U.S. nurses also suffer from this "lack of unity"...a chronic disease here, with no cure in sight. wishing you well......

    leslie
  8. by   vemiliob
    Come on, don't be so critical!
    You did quite well in past times otherwise you wouldn't get the rights you were able to reach.

    AR Nurses run hundred years behind you. We are still second class workers. I wish you all well too.


    Emilio
  9. by   WatERkoOL
    Quote from Jailhouse RN
    I have noticed from day one in here that many RNs use some of the poorest English and grammar I have ever seen. I am sure that we were required to take English as a requirement to graduate from nursing school. Did we leave it in the classroom, or is it that it was never really learned? I see from the charts I read at work that the case is the same in actual practice. I see so much chatroomease that it makes me sick to read some of the postings in here. Are we professionals that want to sound the part or simply chatroom fools? I for one at least try to sound and act professional. As RNs we have a reputation to be knowledgable and professional. Where are you?
    if ur here to show off ur perfect Eng/grammar then u should be an Eng teacher? dont watse ur time here n embarrass the others or stop complaining. so childish n annoying to post this board
  10. by   danu3
    Exuse my bad grammar that will follow.

    Very few of us use perfect English all the time. It depends on the environment. We speak differently under different circumstances. Tape yourself for a week and see how grammatical you are. We write differently under different circumstances. As for this board, it has a culture of its own. It is a culture where being a little "laid back" is more valued than being "formal". It is a culture where as long as I can figure out what you are trying to say, then that is fine.

    I guess the person who complain is having a "culture shock".

    As what happens in the health field, I do not think having perfect grammar is a requirement. But having communication between staff without misunderstand is important as we are dealing with life and death. Having the ability to figure out what the other side is trying to say either verbally or written is a skill that may be most important. What good is it if I have perfect grammar and you misunderstand me? I mean just take a look at lawyer's language, it is perfectly grammatical and sounding professional. But most of us have no idea what it is trying to say. I mean which one do you prefer? "Have an orange" or " I, Jane Doe of 2446 Thaddeus Drive in Monta Vist, California, here give you this said orange with 100% peel, juice, and pulp to you. I also grant you the right to peel, to juice, to eat the said orange in whole or in part, or to give part of or the full organge to anyone or anything, with or without breath, as you deemed dsireable." Ok, I am not a lawyer, but you get the idea.

    For example, one could use a very professional nursing language "Please void into this specimen container." This is highly professional language and it gives an air of professionalism but the patient might not have any idea what you are talking about (this happened to my mom, or should I say mother, once). Maybe better say something not so professional like "Pee" and pointing to the bottle.

    I used to work in the computer field for an international company. One of the things I do is a design review moderator. One thing I do is to see who are the reviewers. If everyone is from a non-English speaking foriegn country, we would let the grammar slide in the documentation as long as everyone can understand what the author is trying to communicate. However, if there is someone who is a native born English speaker AND s/he gets upset with bad grammar, we will have the document reviewed for grammar first. Usually we get the person who is easily upset with bad grammar to do a prereview of the grammar (hey, they ask for it).

    Back in my old school days, I remember we have people in the English department and the people in the linguistic department not liking each other very much. The reason is a different view of language. People in the English department tends to be "prescriptive", that is, there is a right way and a wrong way of doing things. People in the linguistics department has a "descriptive" way of looking at language, that is - bad grammar? No such thing. Let's see what is the grammar of "bad grammar" is. So they ended up studying things like Black English to the grammar of swearing to even baby grammar (I had a linguistic teacher who just have a baby and she was trying to figure out the grammar of her baby). For example, a linguist might look at the communication on this board and actually probably can figure out some grammar rules of our "bad grammar".

    To put on the other hat, as a consumer of healthcare (all of us are at one time or another), bad grammar does not bother me in a healthcare setting. What bothers me is bad communication between staff. Guess that is just a bias I have since I worked in an international setting for so long, we get pretty pragmatic, as long as we understanding each other, that is fine.

    -Dan
  11. by   WatERkoOL
    wow i love ur opinions Dan
  12. by   Pedusc
    Fellow nurses and nurses-to-be, it is critically important that we embrace professionalism at all times, even when we think our conversations are casual and informal, and requires no allegiance to conventional use of the English language. And for those of you critical of foreign doctors and how they spell or write, it is imperative to realize that not all foreign doctors fall into this category, and generalizing can be stereotypical and dangerous. I am a foreigner myself and I know many speakers of English as a second language who would do better than most Americans in both written and spoken English-any day, any time. Be cautious in your choice of words to avoid sounding stereotipical of foreign doctos, most of whom would not be where they are if they are unqualified. Laughing at them does not help the matter either.
    Pedus C. E, RN, BSN, BA
  13. by   Havin' A Party!
    Quote from danu3
    ... What bothers me is bad communication...
    Dan -- Don't think anyone was proposing professional communication without communication.

    Communication is where the rubber meets the road, but this can be accomplished in a manner that enhances the nurse, uplifts our industry, and benefits the patient.

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