Become a nurse in just 12 months!!! - page 6

How do you feel about the nursing shortage being relieved by "fast track" nursing programs? A program that only takes 12 months. Read this article: ---------------------- College grads... Read More

  1. by   BCzito
    Quote from Gennaver
    Hello Shodobe,

    I do not believe there is any such thing as a "quickie" nursing degree, anywhere.

    What there is, is lots and lots of misinformation and misunderstanding and misguided gossip feeding upon itself.

    Gen
    good point, I couldn't agree more, not to mention I think this topic definately could be included in the nurses eat their young argument. If a nurse isn't able to succeed on the job then they will be fired or they will quit, if they can do a great job, do you really care where they came from if the pts are getting great care? or is there more to this, such as some people who went the traditional route feeling cheated because they took a different route? Or angry or jealous about the program? trust me its nothing to be jealous about, they are killing me right now, but I'm willing to do the time, and I know it will pay off and I will be well trained and educated.

    -bczito
  2. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    I couldn't agree more, not to mention I think this topic definately could be included in the nurses eat their young argument.

    GROAN!!!
  3. by   shodobe
    I agree with Marie, GROAN!!!! This has nothing to do with "my degree is better than yours" or " nurses eating their young". Boo Hoo! Come on, this isn't about OJT, which it sounds like more and more, it is about educating correctly, not cutting corners. This is more like, "let's fill all those empty nursing positions with undertrained individuals who just because they have some BS in some lame area will qualify for our nursing school. As you can see this is finally getting to me. I want people to go to school for the required time. I DON'T want them doing it on-line or through a correspondence program. I am old-fashioned, I admit it. I know my opinion is probably narrow minded to some but this is the way I think. We have all kinds of students come through my department and there are alot of very sharp individuals but also a bunch of stupid ones, no ther word for it! I sometimes wonder how some of them even get into nursing school. They probably have the book smarts, but when it comes to actually dealing with "live" patients and doing some critical, logical thinking they trip over their brain waves. This goes back to my belief that nusring school is just a path to get you to your real goal of caring for patients. REAL nursing doesn't begin until your out there actually taking care of patients, but you have to pay attention along the way in school to give yourself the ammunition to fire off the correct way of thinking. I know I am just an "old fart" but who cares. I think I have been around longer than most of you out there and have seen much more of what is coming out of school these days. Believe me, students 10 years ago are far ahead of what is coming out these days. Most students are more concerned about getting done so they can start making the "big money"! Jealousy? I don't think so. I love what I do and I am very, very good at what I do. I work in the OR and Marie can vouch for this, we have a higher turn over for "new" nurses because they don't have the general knowledge of nursing to make it. The OR has a tradition, IMHO, to only take the top notch people. This might sound, probably is, a might egotistical but I think about 80% of all OR applicants don't make it past their 90 days or no more than 6 months. In fact we have in our training a grad from a prestigious West coast "university" BS program. She is stupid. Sorry, no other way to put it. Critical thinking? She has none. LOgic? Not there. I know you will find these in all aspects of college, but if you shorten the amount of time in school this will only get worse down the road. More schools will graduate under trained individuals that will eventually have an impact on nursing in general. I ramble so I quit.
  4. by   BCzito
    Quote from Marie_LPN
    GROAN!!!
    was that a groan of agreement or annoyance?
  5. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    Quote from BCzito
    was that a groan of agreement or annoyance?
    Annoyance. This topic has nothing to do with nurses eating their young.
  6. by   BCzito
    Quote from shodobe
    I agree with Marie, GROAN!!!! This has nothing to do with "my degree is better than yours" or " nurses eating their young". Boo Hoo! Come on, this isn't about OJT, which it sounds like more and more, it is about educating correctly, not cutting corners. This is more like, "let's fill all those empty nursing positions with undertrained individuals who just because they have some BS in some lame area will qualify for our nursing school. As you can see this is finally getting to me. I want people to go to school for the required time. I DON'T want them doing it on-line or through a correspondence program. I am old-fashioned, I admit it. I know my opinion is probably narrow minded to some but this is the way I think. We have all kinds of students come through my department and there are alot of very sharp individuals but also a bunch of stupid ones, no ther word for it! I sometimes wonder how some of them even get into nursing school. They probably have the book smarts, but when it comes to actually dealing with "live" patients and doing some critical, logical thinking they trip over their brain waves. This goes back to my belief that nusring school is just a path to get you to your real goal of caring for patients. REAL nursing doesn't begin until your out there actually taking care of patients, but you have to pay attention along the way in school to give yourself the ammunition to fire off the correct way of thinking. I know I am just an "old fart" but who cares. I think I have been around longer than most of you out there and have seen much more of what is coming out of school these days. Believe me, students 10 years ago are far ahead of what is coming out these days. Most students are more concerned about getting done so they can start making the "big money"! Jealousy? I don't think so. I love what I do and I am very, very good at what I do. I work in the OR and Marie can vouch for this, we have a higher turn over for "new" nurses because they don't have the general knowledge of nursing to make it. The OR has a tradition, IMHO, to only take the top notch people. This might sound, probably is, a might egotistical but I think about 80% of all OR applicants don't make it past their 90 days or no more than 6 months. In fact we have in our training a grad from a prestigious West coast "university" BS program. She is stupid. Sorry, no other way to put it. Critical thinking? She has none. LOgic? Not there. I know you will find these in all aspects of college, but if you shorten the amount of time in school this will only get worse down the road. More schools will graduate under trained individuals that will eventually have an impact on nursing in general. I ramble so I quit.

    "some lame area?!?!" gee thats not generalizing or anything. To be honest I feel having a degree in neuroscience def gives me understanding about certain disorders (neurological and other fields) that I don't think many of my professors understand in depth. In the same token Nursing is very different from these fields, however I think the field of nursing could benefit from some integration from biological fields and vice versa (those fields could benefit allot from learning about nursing practice). As far as cutting corners, how do you know this? just because YOU don't think you could have done it in a shorter time doesn't mean others can't. I don't feel any "corners" are being cut. If I miss something its my own fault and ya know what I'd fail (I can't get below an 84 in any class or I would get kicked out of the program including clinical), I feel like you have no idea about what these programs actually entail, and for your information my biology courses for neuroscience were a hell of allot more difficult than the biology prereqs for nursing so I'll just take my "lame" education and be a great nurse and NP and then I'll think back on the "lame " individuals who said it couldn't be done and be proud of myself for not listening to angry pessimistic people. Also 10 years ago there was allot less to learn, information more than triples itself every 10 years. And ya know what I bet that student you think is so "dumb" probably admires you a great deal and wishes that she could gain experience from you, but many nurses are so busy critizing every one else that they don't see the opportunity to take a new nurse under their wing. In general its really hard being new. Maybe if nurses used some of that compassion they claim to have so much of these new grads and students would probably have allot less anxiety and be more likely to preform better on the job. That poor student is probably so flustered everytime you come near her because she knows you are judging her every move. Of course there are some people who will just never get it, but I think mentoring can go along way. One last thing, is that I often find as a student that many of the experienced nurses are not providing sufficient care, they get what needs to be done to cover their asses to their boss but don't really provide the care their pts need, this isn't always their fault however, they are overworked and have too many pts, but dec the nursing shortage would definately help.

    wouldn't you agree that even nurses who take the traditional route are sometimes bad nurses while the shorter programs produce great nurses? I think there are other variables other than length of program that would determine the difference between good nurses and bad nurses.
  7. by   MiaNJ
    Quote from shodobe
    Sorry, I guess I am too much of a traditionalist. There ARE "quickee" degrees in my book and this 12 month is in my opinion such one. As posted above, some people have degrees that put them in direct care of people in general such as pysychology but having a BS in say electrical engineering or music doesn't prepare them well enough for a tough nursing program. Being well informed or misinformed has nothing to do with it, this is just my opinion after almost 30 years of nursing, I don't like it and never will. You don't see MDs cutting their medical school in half just so there can be more doctors out there. We as nursing professional should expect the same. This is just a bandaid approach at fixing a severe nursing shortage and will eventually bite us in the butt down the road. Now, don't get me wrong there will be a majority of people who will do very well in this type of "fast" approach to nursing and a few will slip through that have no business in nursing but time will tell. Remember, this IS ONLY my opinion, so I don't need a bunch of people pointing out how "so wrong" I am. Just as before we won't be able to tell, as patients, which are the traditional nurse graduates as oppossed to the "fast track" nurses, but as fellow nurses most will be quite evident. MIke

    I disagree that an Accel. BSN is a 'quickee' program.
    I think it's just alot of misunderstanding of what these programs usually entail.
    There are no shortcuts and no classes that we can omit..that the traditional programs have to take. We also have to put in ALOT of clinical hours..and it's the straight yr. thru. In traditional programs, they get the summers off usually..and even if some take course in the summer..it's not the same full course load that we have to take in the 1 yr. program.

    I've taken basically all the science prereqs, and even more than what many traditional programs in my area offer.

    If you look at school sites that offer 1yr (many 14-16 mos.) Accel BSN, with the actual requirements and curriculum..you will see how much is required to even GET IN to the program. We are not 'skipping' any classes.
    I got my BA in psych..but even people that I know who got BAs in other fields..still spent more time getting their science prereqs before they even applied to an Accel. program.

    So basically, if I count the 2 yrs I've been working on my science courses (post BA), the BSN I will get (hopefully) would have taken me LONGER than 1 yr.

    I don't understand some think it's a quickee or short cut.
    If I look at most traditional nursing programs and my courses I've taken and curriculum for the next yr..it's basicall the SAME thing.
    It's just that in a traditional program..it's more SPACED out..they get the summers off..and not as long hours in classess.etc. In the 1 yr program it's recommended that we don't work.
    So I'm quitting my job and living with family to help me out. I can sacrifice this for a year..since I've been saving money.

    I wouldn't have been able to do this sacrifice in 2 yr traditional program, which are often full time also..so I couldn't work during the day.
    Even if I got in the 2yr program..I"ve ALREADY taken ALL the General ED and science courses..so it would be a waste of my time & money to spend 2 yrs in a program where I could only take certain classes anyway (nursing/clinical) since the others would be Repeats.
    Plus...many of the traditional ADN programs in my area don't accept part time schedule students..so I may be forced to repeat those general courses (math, science, history, etc.)..and it's just a waste of my money. I got good grades in most of those and I don't think repeating them would make me a better nurse.

    Also, many of those traditional ADN programs have 3-5 yr waiting lists just to get in..at least in my area (tri state NY/NJ/CT).

    The traditional BSN...many don't even accept second degree students..so I couldn't just go in on a part time basis and take whatever courses I needed.

    So I think the Accel. BSN is perfect for students who ALREADY have taken many of the general requirements - since trad. ADN programs do NOT JUST
    include core nursing and clinicals.
    Also, in the vast majority of the Accel. programs..they will NOT even accept students WITHOUT the science prereqs such as AP 1 & 11, Chemistry, Microbiology, Organic Chemistry (some programs), Bioethics..etc...

    The few that do accept students w/o these science courses...the students have to take them during the program..BUT these programs would then take longer than 1 yr..sometimes 2 yrs.

    So in the end..it's all basically the same type of curriculum we are completeing..whether traditional or Accelerated.
    There are no shortcuts that I can see..and the Accel. is a tough and stressful program..since it involves ALOT of hours during the year. It's just that it's not SPACED out like the traditional program.
  8. by   Neilsbiggestfan
    Like it or not, nursing is going the way of "Cracker Jack Box" degrees. At least, that is what many people I have talked to feel like.
    This either means nursing is way underrated or way overrated.
  9. by   BCzito
    Quote from Neilsbiggestfan
    Like it or not, nursing is going the way of "Cracker Jack Box" degrees. At least, that is what many people I have talked to feel like.
    This either means nursing is way underrated or way overrated.

    "cracker box"? I like to have seen you survive just one week in an advanced program. stop judging what you know nothing about, I'm done with you people. You're not flexible, not willing to embrace change, and thats what healthcare is all about. The attitude you have will just keep you angry and going in circles I'm not going to waste my time arguing with close minded people, I have studying to do.
  10. by   MiaNJ
    Quote from BCzito
    "cracker box"? I like to have seen you survive just one week in an advanced program. stop judging what you know nothing about, I'm done with you people. You're not flexible, not willing to embrace change, and thats what healthcare is all about. The attitude you have will just keep you angry and going in circles I'm not going to waste my time arguing with close minded people, I have studying to do.

    I agree with you BCzito. I don't know what is meant by 'cracker box' degree. That really shows a Great misunderstanding of what an Accelerated program involves..and what is Required to even get into these programs.

    I wonder if these people are even listening to what I or others are saying.

    But in my case..I can say I have NOT taken any shortcut and TAKEN ALL PLUS MORE of the science courses necessary..which most tradiational program students take in their program.

    In the end..I will have put MORE than just 1 yr. into my BSN..since I ALREADY put 2 yrs of taking science prereqs..plus other years of general Ed courses during my orginal BA degree program.

    I don't see why this is difficult to understand to some. I am not SKIPPING any classes..I'm taking them all..plus more..including tons of clinical hours.

    It's like if a doctor decides to go back to school to be a Pharmacist..and this degree usually entails over 6 yrs of full time schoolwork.
    Yet, the MD would've already taken most or all of the Chemistry, Physics, Anatomy, Biochem, etc..that is required of Pharmacy students who have never had a degree.
    So would the MD have to go an entire 6 yrs of schooling again?
    IF his science courses were less than 5 yrs old..why would he have to repeat them?
    He can just take the core major courses..and be done in half the time or less than the 'traditional' Pharmacy students.

    I had to take the GREs for entry into my Accel. BSN program..which doesn't accept just anyone with a degree..they have their requirments..and it's competitive..so I doubt anyone would call it a 'Cracker Box' college or degree.
    In fact, the school has had a nursing program for over 40 yrs..and I will be taking the EXACT SAME courses as the 'traditional' students..but I just have a head start since I took all my science and general Ed courses already.
  11. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    I feel there ARE cracker jack degrees out there, but i don't feel it's automatically the 12 month-be-a-nurse degrees.

    I've seen some advertisement for programs online (not online programs, just those flashy ads that can be everywhere) that say "become a nurse" and it's a program or site that i've never even heard of. And when i have visited the sites, it's almost like it's a program of "instant nurse, just add water".

    However, research, ask around, etc. to determine if a program is legit, accredited, and is suitable for your own schedule and educational needs.
  12. by   Sheri257
    Quote from shodobe
    You don't see MDs cutting their medical school in half just so there can be more doctors out there.
    This is an excellent point.

    :wink2:
  13. by   DutchgirlRN
    Quote from askater11
    How do you feel about the nursing shortage being relieved by "fast track" nursing programs?

    A program that only takes 12 months.
    http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...0/1026/SCHOOLS
    I'll tell you what's really crazy. Vanderbilt University in Nashville. If you have a Bachelor's degree in "anything" you can get your NP in 4 semesters. Isn't that scary?

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