Please quit wasting my time: Interview Advice from Hiring Manager

wannabecnl · Sep 5, 2012

I share the sentiments of so many posters on this thread. I'm left with this observation: either applicants have a desire to fit into the unit and learn it, or they expect the unit to mold to them. Yes, I could express my individuality by showing up in my favorite jammies, but I show respect for the organization and professionalism by wearing job-appropriate clothing (I love the suggestion about going to consignment shops and even thrift shops, BTW!). Someone might like to party hard on their own time, but they should have the sense not to have drunk_every_friday(at)whiskey.com as their email address, and they can't expect that they won't be looked up on facebook or even Google. Hiring managers have to protect the investment the unit is about to make, and if an applicant looks like they don't care all that much, the manager isn't going to care that much, either.

Not every expectation on the part of applicants is so extreme. I'm a new grad with an MSN. I may be green, but I am not naive enough to think I'm going to waltz into my new job next week and start telling them what to do. I do expect to bring my book knowledge with me and apply it to my patient care and learning process. I expect to acclimate to my unit and learn from them; I bring my own strengths, but at the end of the day, I choose to fit in because I want this job. Period. Yes, units have culture. Every group of people has a culture, and fitting in does matter, on some units more than others. In PACU, because of the way the patients flow in and out, we step in and help each other out constantly. If a nurse prefers to work alone, he or she is going to have a hard time, and the patients will suffer for it. On another unit, that type of independence might be necessary, such as in home care. I do agree that you can't always tell how someone will fit in during the span of an interview, but that plus a shadowing day is a decent start.

What I do find interesting is how nurses have told me for years how great the field is because you can change to a different specialty so easily. If it is being perceived as job-hopping, I don't know how easy it really is. How long is long enough? Also, given the unspoken and not-universally-enforced rule about doing a year of med-surg before moving into a specialty (and the lack of uniform requirements from one hospital to another), a certain amount of job-hopping is inevitable. You tell me I need to work a year of med-surg before working in the area I love? You bet I'll put my year in and be out of there when I find what I want. I can give the pretty answer in the interview as well as the next person, because what manager wants to hear "I'd rather be working in the ED, but I need a year of med-surg experience first"? But that doesn't change the fact that both the manager and the applicant are set up for a less-than-satisfying relationship for the next year or so. This is why I always advocate for more defined paths to specialties, more like medical internships and residencies. I think you'd eliminate a lot of job-hopping by requiring job shadowing and setting a clear path to new nurses' areas of interest and skill.

wooh, BSN, RN · Sep 5, 2012

So many here seem to want to argue with Teacher Sue about how wrong she is in what she wants to see in an interview. That energy would be better spent in fixing up your resume and prepping for interviews so that you can better fit those expectations. Do any of you really think Teacher Sue (or any other hiring manager that reads this thread) is really going to see your complaints about how YOU had a good reason to be job hopping and will turn around and hire someone that had 7 jobs in 5 years? That they'll hire the person that can't fake confidence or a decent attitude because they might be nervous (unlike every other job applicant that just sooooo enjoys the job hunting process)? That they'll just pick a random person without using any criteria whatsoever because they won't want to miss out on the person that might be a great nurse even though they can't piece together a coherent resume or job application? That they'll quit requiring a drug screen because some people are great nurses even if they were stuck in a room with a group of pot smokers last week?

You've gotten an inside look at what it takes to get a job. Instead of complaining about the criteria, use the tips to mold yourself for a few hours into the perfect candidate. An essential part of nursing is acting. If you don't believe that, then you've obviously never had to change out a ostomy bag on an alert patient without pretending that it's not the worse thing you've ever smelled.

If you're an introvert/shy/uncomfortable/nervous, practice on friends and family until you can fake being an enthusiastic job seeker long enough to get the job.

Don't hate the player. Hate the game. But don't expect the game to change just because you want it to, you're going to have to learn to play it or settle for working at your local fast food place that will hire you just for walking in.

Guest343211 · Sep 5, 2012

(unlike every other job applicant that just sooooo enjoys the job hunting process)? That they'll just pick a random person without using any criteria whatsoever because they won't want to miss out on the person that might be a great nurse even though they can't piece together a coherent resume or job application? That they'll quit requiring a drug screen because some people are great nurses even if they were stuck in a room with a group of pot smokers last week?
You've gotten an inside look at what it takes to get a job. Instead of complaining about the criteria, use the tips to mold yourself for a few hours into the perfect candidate. An essential part of nursing is acting. If you don't believe that, then you've obviously never had to change out a ostomy bag on an alert patient without pretending that it's not the worse thing you've ever smelled.
If you're an introvert/shy/uncomfortable/nervous, practice on friends and family until you can fake being an enthusiastic job seeker long enough to get the job.
Don't hate the player. Hate the game. But don't expect the game to change just because you want it to, you're going to have to learn to play it or settle for working at your local fast food place that will hire you just for walking in.

Well, that's certainly not what I've been saying. I don't know how long you have been in nursing, but I've been in the field for a long time. I surely acknowledge the game.

And here's where the word "fit" should be used. . .from the applicant's perspective---I know you need a job--but be careful about taking a position where your beliefs, ethics, professional philosophy, etc, do not seem to meet the particular environment. It's a given though, that you won't necessarily know about that until you are immersed in the environment. If you can get a feel for this before hand, think twice about accepting the position, b/c things are not likely to change--or at least there is a long road before they do. Can you hang on in that environment not knowing when and if it will change for the better???

OTOH, sadly, this issue of horizontal/vertical violence is pervasive enough that it's so hard to not get a position and see this to some extent.

I only wish this were not the case, but I am glad that Teacher Sue tries to screen for attitudes and such with the potential for this negativity. Once it gets into the culture, it's like a cancer. It's just that a lot of it is a cancer that is covert and slow growing--so it can take a long time to get to the point where management and administration MUST face it's existence.

I am finding that this kind of work environment violence is also why a numer of experienced nurses go into home care. Seriously. You have some very strongly experienced nurses going this route, and they actually take a pay cut to get away from the toxicity. It's the same thing with why a number of nurses bite the bullet of working night shift--other than b/c they are new or b/c it's expect that they pay their dues or whatever. Many strongly experienced RNs work nights b/c, in general, there is much less toxicity--of course depending on various things. But they don't work that God awful shift b/c they are lazy. (Some folks don't realize how crazy nights can get--with less help--mind you.) Many work it b/c there seems to be less gunner(ism) among nurses at night---of course this is not always the case, but in general it can be. It's an interesting dynamic to me. Perhaps, in general, working nights forces people to work more as a team, b/c there is less help and support.

I agree that you have to make the best presentation and learn from what Teacher Sue is saying.

But there are other perspectives worthy of consideration as well.

Come on already. If a person is idiotic enough to go to an interview dressed as Teacher Sue initially described, really, what can they expect? It's true. You just wasted that manager's time, b/c she CANNOT take you seriously.

Serious applicants should know better. Did they attend clinicals in their PJ's or jeans? I don't think so. What would make them think a nursing position interview would be any different.

Scrubs aren't usually appropriate either, unless, say you work in the facility, and you have cleared with the manager that you have worked all night before the interview. Some folks would even say, bring your suit with you, and change at work. Why? Well, it's supposed to be a professional role, and you need to look professional.

Yes, you have to comb over your resume. Read it aloud and get another professional person to read it and edit it.

This is really no brainer stuff.

SueBergRN · Sep 5, 2012

I agree with Sue. I think the schools and educators need to stress the importance of professionalism in behavior and dress as well as employers need to enforce the same. Some nurses and CNA's forget that we need to behave as professionals. It is a big mistake by not stressing enough the importance of conducting ourselves in a professional manner. This includes all aspects of behavior, attitude and dress. When I was in nursing school we were taught that nurses are one of the highest respected jobs there are and we were to conduct ourselves as professionals ie: keep fingernails short and manicured, no nail polish unless a very light color. Never to wear nail tips or artificial nails as they are a breeding ground for microorganisms, no jewlery (another breeding ground), except wedding bands and small earrings in good taste. Shoes were to be clean and polished, Uniforms clean and pressed, hair neat and if long pulled back. Never to display horsing around, loudness or swearing. I have experienced in the work place, and as a visitor to hospitals, clinics and long term care facilities, uniform pants are dragging on the floor that are dirty and frayed, shoes that are filthy, artifial nails, heavy make-up, large earrings and many rings on the fingers. It is sad to see the employee look like she/he just crawled out of bed, slept in their uniform and didn't bother to fix her/his hair. If they are this sloppy in they're appearance it make be wonder about their ther patient care.

Guest343211 · Sep 5, 2012

I agree with Sue. I think the schools and educators need to stress the importance of professionalism in behavior and dress as well as employers need to enforce the same. Some nurses and CNA's forget that we need to behave as professionals. It is a big mistake by not stressing enough the importance of conducting ourselves in a professional manner. This includes all aspects of behavior, attitude and dress. When I was in nursing school we were taught that nurses are one of the highest respected jobs there are and we were to conduct ourselves as professionals ie: keep fingernails short and manicured, no nail polish unless a very light color. Never to wear nail tips or artificial nails as they are a breeding ground for microorganisms, no jewlery (another breeding ground), except wedding bands and small earrings in good taste. Shoes were to be clean and polished, Uniforms clean and pressed, hair neat and if long pulled back. Never to display horsing around, loudness or swearing. I have experienced in the work place, and as a visitor to hospitals, clinics and long term care facilities, uniform pants are dragging on the floor that are dirty and frayed, shoes that are filthy, artifial nails, heavy make-up, large earrings and many rings on the fingers. It is sad to see the employee look like she/he just crawled out of bed, slept in their uniform and didn't bother to fix her/his hair. If they are this sloppy in there appearance it make be wonder about their ther patient care.

I thought they did this. I know in my first program, now quite some time ago, they did. Seems strange.

About the nails. There was this war on it in the hospitals in the mid 90's--nurses defended the artificial nails with their lives. LOL I always felt it was nasty to have the fake nails and such. What we would always get was "We use them as tools." This always upset me. I saw nurses messing with umbilical lines with these claws, and I don't care how much they scrubed up before hand, those artificial nails carry microbes, and they can scratch delicate baby skin and delicate lines, or even delicate elderly skin.

So not worth it IMHO.

Do you remember when we had to wear nurse's caps? I was never for them. Luckily my school said they were no longer necessary in the middle of my program. One more thing to carry in a vinyl "cap box" or worry about in terms of having it fall into a patient's open wound during a dressing change.

Remember having to polish those white nursing shoes? LOL

SueBergRN · Sep 5, 2012

I don't remember nursing caps. TG! It was only 18 yrs ago I graduated but I remember we were trained well. It floors be when I see behaviors and dress that I would expect coming out at the Sat. clubs on the floor of the hospital. Unbelieveable. My daughter is in nursing school now and I have talked with her about it. She feels that there are some of her classmates that do dress unprofessionally. Maybe time to have a "What Not To Wear" for medical personal. LOL

Flatlander · Sep 5, 2012

After bitter experience I am a believer in practicing and scripting some answers for interviews. I have found that when I go off-message, I have a tendency to shoot myself in the foot, put my foot in my mouth, and generally mess up the interview. And you only get one chance to make your best case. There are no do-overs! Since recently having been terminated, it's all the more important to try to present my best in the interview. My goal now is to become a calm, confident, yet dynamic interviewee in my next interview. I plan to practice by doing a mock-interview with a friend asking me the standard questions. It goes without saying that to be dynamic requires some degree of spontaneity. I think I can add that with some little flourishes of personality without saying the wrong thing. (I tend to be too honest and disclose way more than is helpful.)

Ruby Vee, BSN · Sep 5, 2012

Maybe it's b/c long before I became a RN, I was a NA, and as a teen, I was a candy stripper. (LOL. Remember them?) My mother was charge over the MS floor I was assigned, and also worked in ED. She never allowed me to sit with other candy strippers and chit chat. She made sure I understood that it's all about meeting needs. And I remember, at 14 and 15 years of age, going home with aching legs and feet. So, in many ways, my beginning nurse's education started very early.

A candy stripper, huh? I don't think I'd have put this on my resume. And I know for SURE my mother never would have let me be a stripper of any sort at 14 or 15. That said, I was a candy striper for awhile.

wooh, BSN, RN · Sep 5, 2012

(I tend to be too honest and disclose way more than is helpful.)

That's my problem in not just interviews, but life in general.

I've found that as long as I can keep that under a bit of control, I can come off as refreshingly honest. When I don't keep that under control, I come off like a crazed lunatic. :)

wooh, BSN, RN · Sep 5, 2012

A candy stripper, huh? I don't think I'd have put this on my resume. And I know for SURE my mother never would have let me be a stripper of any sort at 14 or 15. That said, I was a candy striper for awhile.

You're mom was such a killjoy!

Of course at the rate schools are churning out new grads in the still crappy economy, candy stripping might be the go-to job for new grads.

CountyRat · Sep 5, 2012

WARNING! IF YOU WANT SYMPATHY, STOP READING NOW! If, on the other hand, you want a job, continue (but brace yourself, the truth will hurt). YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

The wise will sit at Teacher Sue’s feet and humbly learn from her. She is giving you some of the best advice of your professional life. Here is some more, if you are tough enough to continue.

1. Q: What is the first and most challenging obstacle that a job applicant must overcome?

A: Keeping her CV out of the manager’s trash can.

Did you read Teacher Sue’s post? Remember that she wrote that she recently received 14 CVs, and promptly trashed all but eight of them? The hiring manager first goes through all of the CVs on her desk, taking about 60 seconds with each, and looks for the worst ones. Bad grammar, stupid e-mail names, numerous pages of minutia, and frequent past job changes go right into the dumpster. Sorry; but that is just how it is. Whine about fairness if you want, but that will not change anything. Life is unfair. Suck it up and make sure that your CV is not one of the losers.

2. Next, the manager reads the few surviving CVs. She is not interested in fairness or being nice. She is not hiring a friend, she is hiring a nurse, and that is what she will look for. Most managers will not read past the second page of any CV; they just do not have time for that. Your job is to knock her socks off on page one. Avoid having a page two, but if you must, stop at two.

3. No one but your mother cares about your hobbies, your aspirations to “provide excellent nursing care and advance [your] professional life,” or any other cotton candy fluff. This is combat, not a baby shower. Stick to what you can do for the institution and back it up with accurate descriptions of a history of hard work, dedication to your past employers, and what you can do for the manager, not what you want her to do for you.

4. In the rare event of an interview, remember that you are entering a combat zone. You are not trying to become the manager’s friend; you are competing fiercely with several impressive candidates, and you have to be more impressive than all of them. Dress smart. Be serious but relaxed. Yeah, I know. Fake it.

5. Have a few intelligent questions of your own to ask the interviewer (that shows that you are serious and motivated). Do not interrupt. Do not roll your eyes. Do not complain about or blame anyone for anything.

6. Have a carefully prepared explanation for why you are looking for a job, especially if you are trying to switch from a current job. Do not explain how unfair and mean and hostile your previous employers or coworkers were. Managers know that, if you walk in blaming others for your problems, you are trouble, and you will not get the job. Speak well of former employers and coworkers. Emphasize how much you learned and grew professionally as a result of past challenges, and how eager you are to take on new challenges.

7. To quote Winston Churchill, “never give up! Never give up! Never, never, never give up!

Best wishes.

CrazierThanYou · Sep 5, 2012

You're telling me that you KNOW that two people have each handed someone (the hiring manager?) $200 and that secured the job placements? I'd have to ask how you know this--as the person who PAID the money would have to be insane to admit it, and the person who TOOK the money, equally so. That's a HELLUVA lot of risk for any manager to take, for chickenfeed funds.
I have never seen, nor heard, of such a thing, and I am by no means naive. Not for a job like a staff nurse position, never.
Is this happening elsewhere? Is someone else on this forum saying they, too, have proof of such a thing?
With all due respect, I just cannot believe this assertion.

I know people who have purchased their positions, only not in nursing.