Why do so many nurses from the Philippines come to Canada/USA? - page 9
I hope nobody takes offense to this question because I certainly don't mean it in any negative way. I am just wondering why so many nurses from the Philippines are coming to Canada and the USA? I... Read More
3Apr 11, '11 by nursel56 GuideQuote from lactamaseIf you had read my prior posts carefully you would not have written this. Please take the time to inform yourself better before offering responses that respectfully -- don't make much sense. The billing of patients or what they can or cannot afford is out of our hands (nurses) completely.You consume resources when giving care to a patient right? Unless you don't, it matters when giving care to a patient. As much as I would love but I can't give free medications to a patient who can't pay and is not insured. Don't think of me as a cold-hearted nurse but thats reality in PH. Some people can't get treated because they can't pay. Some don't even consider getting a surgery because it cost a lot.
It sounds like you think a patient in the hospital receives services like an a la carte restaurant or something. Do you think we ask people if they can pay for their 9pm antibiotic or they aren't going to get it? Maybe you think they can only afford one meal a day? Your conceptualization of US healthcare is so incomplete it's confusing to even figure out what you are trying to say.
3Apr 11, '11 by Fiona59Quote from jenmeshthis topic gave me a lot of insight. i understand lactamase's concern. i live here in the philippines, and it's true that we don't see that hardships that westerners also face.
it's been said before as i was reading back on the previous posts. nurses is an honorable job. you save the lives of people.. they depend on you. however, i believe and observed, here in the philippines, nurses are not respected. the government does not support nurses very well. they don't advocate for our rights considering our role in society. we are paid below minimum wage. we don't have nursing assistants, lpn's or whatsoever. nurses do everything here. wonderful, right? aside from that, sometimes nurses work double shifts because they have no replacements, and there are no relievers. no one complains, experience is needed.
go to the us or canada, omg. nurses are respected and well paid. they understand the importance of nurses. yes, decades ago, they needed nurses, and of course, we came there to work with great pay with benefits, flexible working hours, and what's that? we have assistants? and we instruct them what to do? it's heaven. that is why a lot of filipinos are nurses, either coerced by their family because of the great opportunities abroad, or simply because they like that job.
uhm, lpns, believe it or not are nurses. in my province, nobody delegates to me other than the charge nurse, who also delegates to the rns.
what you need to understand there are differences in the scope of practice for nurses all over the world. i routinely give morphine. a nurse from northern ireland, told me she had never given morphine in her career because that was a resident's job. nurses from the phillipines that were hired by my hospital system, told me they had never removed suture or staples or even fitted an ostomy device because that was the doctor's job. other nurses from the phillipines claimed that they didn't have to do am and hs care in the hospital because that was the family's job.
we only go on what we are told.
but trust me nursing is not the golden ticket.
3Quote from lactamaseUgh, you totally didn't get my punchline! You need to brush up on American English, brother. When someone says "for kicks and giggles" that means a funny remark not to be taken in serious light. I don't watch Miss Universe either but I know a lot of Filipinos do, it's a national pasttime. But I did see the clip on YouTube when a coworker showed it to me - the poor girl's answer to the question was disappointing to say the least but it's good entertainment if you have time to spare online.Haven't watch it sadly.
You are merely looking at the flaws of the subject. If you'll look at the Filipinos in general and not just as individual persons (which what you might have probably done) you'll end up agreeing with me.
BTW I see no other forum cluster here with non-native English speakers as members. If I see Japanese Nursing Forums here or Korean Nursing Forum I might just change my mind. But on second thought I probably won't because it's strictly English here in allnurses.
While the na´vetÚ you are making painfully obvious in your posts are beginning to get in my nerves, I'm going to be civil about this and tell you again: You admit you've only had interactions, online or otherwise, with Filipinos and that's how you made your judgement that how they speak English is among the best among non-native English speakers. Well, America is truly a melting pot of various races and I've had the privilege to work alongside Indians, Lebanese, Iraqi, Nigerian, Persian, Korean, Chinese, Japanese, German, Thai, Vietnamese, French, and numerous other non-native English speakers and I assure you, their English is just as good if not better than the Filipinos I've worked with. People are individuals, like you said. The only thing different with these other nationalities is that unlike Filipinos, they don't resort to shameless self promotion by saying their English is among the world's best among non-native English speakers.Last edit by juan de la cruz on Apr 11, '11
3Quote from IamnarsKuya Juan? awww, that sent warm fuzzies all the way down to my toes. Thanks for the concern. Best of luck to you.--Out of Topic--
to Kuya Juan Dela Cruz and all my fellow Filipino nurses out there in the United States- take care po.. I've heard from the news that there's a "SUPER BUG" in California, an antibiotic resistant bacteria if I'm not mistaken, that still has no drug yet. Take care of yourselves. God Bless
P.S. for those who don't know..."kuya" is the Tagalog word for older brother.
4Quote from lactamaseYou know you're talking about your situation in the Philippines, right? Because, there's no way in hell that the scenario you just described will happen in the USA. What you described is blatantly unethical and only seen in countries where substandard care is allowed. The uninsured show up in US hospitals all the time. They are admitted to the same room, use the same linens, are fed the same hospital food, are given the same medications and treatments, and yes, are assigned the same physicians and nurses as those who have the ability to pay. As my other wise colleagues have stated, nurses aren't even privy to a patient's financial situation. The hospitals end up taking a revenue loss on these patients when they are unable to pay.You consume resources when giving care to a patient right? Unless you don't, it matters when giving care to a patient. As much as I would love but I can't give free medications to a patient who can't pay and is not insured. Don't think of me as a cold-hearted nurse but thats reality in PH. Some people can't get treated because they can't pay. Some don't even consider getting a surgery because it cost a lot.
I'm really flabbergasted by your comment. This is exactly what I see as a potential problem with bringing nurses from countries like the Philippines who are like you. You have to know how our health care works here and you can not bring any preconceived notion that you have from a third world country and think that you can practice the same way here. No way Jose. It's been years since I left the Philippines but honestly, I don't recall having the same air of arrogance when I was young.
3Quote from lactamaseThen there you go, you can be part of that in the Philippines. There's no need for you to apply for work overseas right? Please, pretty please.There's a think called medical tourism in South East Asia where people from industrialized nation with no free healthcare travel to Asian countries to get healthcare at a lower cost.
US Medical Tourism Association magazine reported that medical tourism in the Philippines grew 8.0% in 2007. And that's just PH other countries promote medical tourism as well.
0Apr 13, '11 by lactamaseQuote from juan de la cruzI'll try to make this my last post regarding this topic. It's been been causing me to log-in allnurses almost everyday and research about unnecessary information (like the American healthcare system). Haha. I've been searching the net for data about the uninsured American and the healthcare they receive and end up finding this thread in allnurses about uninsured Americans being DENIED of medical care. http://allnurses-central.com/us-poli...ns-419253.html You can even try google-ing for studies by different organizations saying that there are Americans not receiving medical care because they don't have insurance. If even after that overwhelming evidence that you are still going to deny what I'm saying, I can't envision anything that can change your mind regarding this topic. They exist. People who are getting denied of medical care because they can't pay-up exist in America.You know you're talking about your situation in the Philippines, right? Because, there's no way in hell that the scenario you just described will happen in the USA. What you described is blatantly unethical and only seen in countries where substandard care is allowed.
P.S. I stumbled with an Academy Award nominee documentary by Michael Moore entitled Sicko. You should check this out. It talks about the reality of your healthcare system.
Also regarding the other topic, I must admit that the statement I said about Filipinos and their English is quite naive. I can't find any ranking whatsoever supporting my claim but I did found out that Filipinos rank 6th in the world when it comes to the number of people who speaks English as their first languange. BTW I do had interactions with Singaporeans, Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, and Malaysians so far there's none among them who speaks better English than fellow Filipino friends.
My apologies if I sound arrogant, there maybe some truth in that and I won't try to deny it. It's just that a lot of people think they can't be wrong because 1. they have more exp than you. 2. they are way much older. and it gets a little bit on my nerves. Must be a case of pride for them. I do respect my elders but I do rebut if I think what their saying is wrong. It's the age of evidence-based practice anyway. ;-)
-about the out of topic post-
Are you talking about Carbapenem-resistant K.pneumoniae? We do had a patient who died of septic shock with WBC soaring high even after a combination of a penem-class drug and a higher gen cephalosporin. Relatives refused referral to an infectious specialist because of financial reasons. We might already have that in PH and just isn't detected. Also there's been reports of NDM-betalactamases a few months back. Resistant strains are getting scarier.
2Apr 13, '11 by juan de la cruz, MSN, RN, NP GuideXB9S if I could say one final word on this as well, and I'm not trying to have the last word at all:
Lactamase, you can not judge a country's health care as an outsider and think you know enough based on what you're reading in the media. You have a lot to learn about US Politics. There is no such thing as balanced broadcasting in this day and age. Every item you read on the news can be viewed as propaganda motivated by the political affiliation of the author. The funny thing is you even associated this with "evidence" as if they should be taken as facts.
When American healthcare was conceived, it was during a simpler time when unemployment is unheard of and Americans live a relatively prosperous life. My spouse is American, born and raised by a family who called Michigan their home for over a century. My in-laws are simple people who never went to college. Dad-in-law was an insurance saleman and mom-in-law was a homemaker. They lived a middle class lifestyle despite his humble job, lived in a 3-bedroom home they built, and owned new cars. He worked for the same insurance company throughout his working years and got a retirement pension from it. But by the time he was retired, he really didn't need his employer's health insurance because Medicare kicked in when he retired at 65. For years, this was common for many American families. But the world has changed due to globalization. Multinational corporations have taken over much of the world's businesses including the ones we depended on for employment for years in the US. Jobs disappeared as corporations sought cheaper labor overseas. This resulted in rising unemployment and many Americans losing their employer-sponsored health insurance.
The other issue is the rising cost of health care. American health care is the most expensive to finance in all the developed countries. We have cutting edge treatments and we spend a lot of dollars in providing this high level of care. The link you provided showed people who are "denied" care by their insurance companies. You see, one of the solutions to contain the cost of healthcare was the birth and subsequent rise of HMO's or managed care. These insurance companies are run by people whose main objective is to limit spending to lower the price of healthcare provided to its beneficiaries. They can and do determine when enough is enough and a patient has received the fullest extent of effective treatment for a particular condition. For instance, an insurance company or HMO can say that a cancer patient has already received enough chemo and radiation and that any further attempts to treat will not be curative. The problem with that is that any physician (or even a lay person) can pull up new research on a novel treatment that has not been exhausted yet. Unfortunately, insurance companies can step in and say that this novel treatment is not necessary anymore and will refuse to pay for that treatment.
Another thing to bear in mind is the fact that American health care has been moving towards evidence based practice for years now. What this means is that whatever is deemed effective for a particular condition has to be proven so by a great deal of research. For instance, we know from research that the time from door to percutaneous coronary intervention in acute MI affects outcome, thus, our hospitals have to meet standards in making sure that a patient with chest pain who presents to the ER is assessed in a timely manner so that if an intervention is warranted, the patient gets it in time. That is why the example you made about a patient with sepsis in the Philippines who did not get his antibiotic because he had no means to pay for it will never happen in the US. Starting an antibiotic and keeping a patient on it for as long as needed is standard of care for sepsis and a hospital will lose a lawsuit filed by a family member whose relative, insured or not, died because the antibiotic was withhled. Of course there are cases where an insurance company refused a treatment resulting in a patient's death. I would question whether the treatment withheld could have saved the patient's life and if it could have, then that's a case that lawyers need to be aware of because a settlement is surely in order.
Finally, you mentioned home-boy, Michael Moore's movie, Sicko, which I saw. I share a lot of Mr. Moore's political views. We know him too well in my spouse's hometown of Flint, Michigan. In as much as I admire the man, you need to realize that he broke the rules of documentary filming by embellishing and twisting some of the facts in all his movies. I understand that he did this because he wants to rally the troops to the cause but the man is by no means a hero. He lives in luxury in a resort town in Michigan where only rich Republicans could afford to buy a place. The man portrayed Flint, Michigan as a decaying rust belt of a town which it truly is but not one time did he volunteer any financial assistance to help rebuild the dying town... but he sure made a lot of money from the movies he made about Flint.Last edit by juan de la cruz on Apr 13, '11
0Apr 27, '12 by lactamaseCan't help but remember this post in this article.
PH: World's best country in business English - Yahoo! News PhilippinesHahahaha.
0Apr 28, '12 by yourstrulyQuote from lilacloverim a Filipino nurse and proud of it, honestly majority of us chose to come to Canada or USA or any other country because it pays more. you see, in Philippines the starting salary of a RN working in a private hospital is 12000 pesos a month that's merely US $300+ a month, we still have to pay taxes and health insurance,the take home income is almost as little as Php10000 that's US$250 a month, you're even considered lucky if you get a RN job that pays because RNs in Philippines has to do volunteer work just to gain experience in nursing field, sometimes we even have to pay the hospital so we can do volunteer work..you see Filipino families are close-knit family we help our family even extended family and distance relatives, we send our brothers, sisters, cousins, nephews and nieces to school, even college, we pay for our family's hospital bill when they get sick (especially health insurance is not that common in Philippines) we also buy house for our parents and car too..we are the family's bread winner, the provider, we do this so we can send money to the Philippines, to better the life of our familyI hope nobody takes offense to this question because I certainly don't mean it in any negative way.
I am just wondering why so many nurses from the Philippines are coming to Canada and the USA? I always thought the Philippines was supposed to be a beautiful place? Why does it seem everyone wants to leave it? It seems to be the most common country to see foreign nurses from here in Canada (west coast). Why don't they want to stay in their home country? I love visiting other countries but I don't think I would want to go through the hassle of permanently relocating to another country. I know I am probably being really naive here but I have always been curious about this. Here in Vancouver BC I think I work with more Phillipino nurses than fellow Canadians. Frankly its kinda sad considering how many Canadians are out of work...
I know where you're coming from, I will feel sad too if Canadian,Americans or any other Foreign nurses will come to Philippines and take away our jobs. We meant no harm, we just want to provide for our family and i wont apologize for that. plus i think if you'll look at the much bigger picture, i think Canadians/Americans benefits too, we are caring nurses and do our jobs with TLC, and you see Filipino RNs in Canada/USA pay taxes too, we pay your country, we help your economy too. it's all fair in love and war and i think in work opportunity too