US demand for Filipino nurses declining - educator

[pinoy_guy]

us demand for filipino nurses declining - educator

some 40 percent of filipino nurses in the united states have undesirable work habits, which could likely be the cause for the slump in the demand for pinoy nurses, an educator said friday.

an article in sun-star cebu quoted henry seno, president of the american dream review institute inc. (amdream) as saying that the decline in the demand for filipino nurses abroad is caused more by a change in work attitude of the latest batch of nursing professionals rather than the june 2006 nursing board exam cheating controversy.

change in work attitude...

i wonder if this is related to the nurses who got "fast track" bsns, all in less than 6 months.

cgfns & uscis have to crack down on these people, they're ruining things for the nurses who went through nursing school.

"nurses in the philippines now are no longer of the same quality as the nurses five to 10 years back," seno said.

this quote sounds very familiar here...

suzanne, are you putting words into this guy's mouth?

he said 40 percent of filipino nurses in the united states, despite receiving an average salary of $8,000 to $10,000 a month, "do not show up for work (and) literally do not report to the hospitals, especially those with immigrant status (while) those who report act as if they are not there because they're busy doing other things."

he forgot the other sticking point--nurses who, after getting to the us with their green cards, demand to be released from their contracts.

my reading of that situation--if the nurses win against the agency--is that the door for filipino nurses to the us will slam shut.

no agency will be willing to sign on filipino nurses if nurses have the "human right" to not honor the terms of the contracts.

the only 2 options remaining will be aos and direct hiring by hospitals--which are rare, and are quickly filled up.

hundreds of thousands of nurses with nowhere to go.

seno also hits the growing number of nursing schools in the country, churning out nursing graduates who are lacking in hands-on experience and a good grasp of educational background.

"there are more nursing schools now and so many nursing graduates. these schools have become mere diploma mills," seno said.

i think this person is quoting a moderator here.

this negative scenario, he said, has caused hospitals and clinics in the united states to recruit more nurses from india, korea and china compared to those they hire from philippines as these institutions have become apprehensive in their choice of nursing imports.

i agree with this statement.

there are a lot of nurses in the us, especially from india, then china, then korea. a few from japan. new hires.

their english not as good, but they get the job done.

seno also blames local recruitment agencies for taking advantage of the need for nurses in the us by "duping" hospitals and health institutions to hire pinoy nurses who are not qualified for nursing jobs.

hmmm...

[crossbow]

i usually hear "i have to think about my future." as the rationale for breaking contracts.

"i have to think of my future" is what they usually say. it does not apply to the work ethic of a nursing professional or any professional for that matter. (besides, what happens to their future if they are sent back anyway? just stating the reality.) the reason one is staying to finish the contract is..........thinking about the future.

to be objective, there are legitimate cases wherein rns are exploited. for example, being put in a med tele unit with 1:4 ratio and being given 6 patients.

however, if the rn signs a contract for ltc facility with the understanding that he/she will be taking care of 10 to 15 patients, i don't think he/she can use that ratio as reason to jump ship when he/she knew the ratio even before leaving philippine soil.

1:4 ratio!! man i'd die for a 1:4 ratio!!! my med/surg tele unit has 1:7 or 1:8 ratio. (pinoy guy, the nurse to patient ratio is the reality of us health care. 1:6 ratio isnt exploitation for me...its a blessing!!)

these new nurses who plan to walk away should:

1. realize that all over the country everyone is grappling with increased nurse to patient ratio. (thats the effect of managed care system that the us has adopted for its health care model.) the unions have taken it up in their collective bargaining agreement. nursing management has admitted to this problem. nursing associations have batted for it and are still taking up the cudgels in congress and senate.

2. remember, what was their nurse to patient ratio in the pi? the best one so far on a med floor is at the phc with 1:6. is that considered exploitation for these new ones? most of the hospitals in the pi used to practice team nursing. if one shifts to primary nursing, one will find it easier than team nursing.

that's an apt analogy, but sadly the ship jumpers seem to think they're justified in grabbing and running.

no imho, once the newbies arrive here, they want it easier.

its not going to be easier!!! this is the reason why the united states is recruiting from outside its borders...because nursing here is not easier. the new nurses are supposed to be the solution and not the problem on top of a bigger problem.

to new nurses who have just arrived:

1. please bear in mind what the other nurses who have been working in your unit think about you before you guys jump ship.

2. before you think of yourselves as a valuable commodity, think first if you can cut it in your unit before transferring to other units because chances are the units or hospitals that you are planning to transfer to, may have the worse nurse retention problems or working conditions than the ones that you are in now.

[Joe LI]

can you elaborate on the attitude?

pinoy guy,

i was referring to general personal characteristics outside of education, professional training etc., such as having a bossy attitude, inability to work well with others or follow instructions, having a demanding and selfish nature, etc. the kind of characteristics that can get anyone let go if it rises to an intolerable level, shich is probably is given the option of having one less nurse to help the team.

[pinoy_guy]

(besides, what happens to their future if they are sent back anyway? just stating the reality.)

well, they are not being sent back.

they are all over the us, and they brag about walking away from their contracts, and even advise other rns in the philippines to do the same thing.

1:4 ratio!! man i'd die for a 1:4 ratio!!! my med/surg tele unit has 1:7 or 1:8 ratio. (pinoy guy, the nurse to patient ratio is the reality of us health care. 1:6 ratio isnt exploitation for me...its a blessing!!)

it depends.

from what i know, med tele units in california is going to 1:4 by january 2008, and some hospitals started implementing that a few months ago.

i'm really curious about the gap in nursing practice between california and new york.

a friend had been persuading me to go to nyc, because he said the work was easy.

he has 3 jobs, and he still has time for outside activities.

i asked him how he could do that, when i'm really exhausted after a duty, especially if one of my patients was on kayexelate.

we don't have cnas, so i clean up the patient.

he told me that the only time he handles stool is when there's a stool specimen to be labelled and sent to the lab.

i don't know if he was joking. but he does have 3 jobs at this time.

no imho, once the newbies arrive here, they want it easier.

exactly.

actually you only have to read some posts online, from rns still in the philippines.

i think part of the disparity is because we have medical students and interns in philippine hospitals, and they handle a lot of the vital signs and iv starts, plus pushing of iv meds.

when you have these other jobs on your plate...it is impossible to handle 30 patients in one shift.

its not going to be easier!!! this is the reason why the united states is recruiting from outside its borders...because nursing here is not easier. the new nurses are supposed to be the solution and not the problem on top of a bigger problem.

exactly.

money doesn't grow on trees.

but your hard work does have its just reward.

:)

to new nurses who have just arrived:

. . .

2. before you think of yourselves as a valuable commodity, think first if you can cut it in your unit before transferring to other units because chances are the units or hospitals that you are planning to transfer to, may have the worse nurse retention problems or working conditions than the ones that you are in now.

nobody's a "valuable commodity."

it's all teamwork.

[pinoy_guy]

...having a bossy attitude, inability to work well with others or follow instructions, having a demanding and selfish nature, etc. the kind of characteristics that can get anyone let go if it rises to an intolerable level, shich is probably is given the option of having one less nurse to help the team.

ah.

i know what you mean.

i've met this kind of prima donnas on the job.

they can kill camaraderie and esprit de corps really fast.

[pinoy_guy]

1:4 ratio!! man i'd die for a 1:4 ratio!!! my med/surg tele unit has 1:7 or 1:8 ratio. (pinoy guy, the nurse to patient ratio is the reality of us health care. 1:6 ratio isnt exploitation for me...its a blessing!!)

california nurses association ratio basics

er trauma 1:1

or 1:1

pacu 1:2

icu 1:2

er 1:4

sdu 1:3

telemetry 1:4

med/surg 1:5

these ratios are for california, and will be fully implemented by 2008.

they cut costs by firing the cnas, so i've been doing vital signs and i&os, and cleaning up and bathing patients.

[crossbow]

california nurses association ratio basics

these ratios are for california, and will be fully implemented by 2008.

they cut costs by firing the cnas, so i've been doing vital signs and i&os, and cleaning up and bathing patients.

i work nights so...no bathing. i havent sponged a patient since phc.

work without cnas is a crazy notion!! is this althroughout california?

i used to work as a cna in socal before getting my license and moving to ny.

our cnas are invaluable. some draw blood and do ekgs. very helpful if you have 4 rule-outs that need troponin draws and ekg in the next 30 minutes. vitals and i&os i also do. vitals at start of shift so i know how my patient is doing and whether the report i get from my colleague is true or not. i&os because the surgery guys are anal about it.

'm really curious about the gap in nursing practice between california and new york.

a friend had been persuading me to go to nyc, because he said the work was easy.

he has 3 jobs, and he still has time for outside activities.

i asked him how he could do that, when i'm really exhausted after a duty, especially if one of my patients was on kayexelate.

we don't have cnas, so i clean up the patient.

he told me that the only time he handles stool is when there's a stool specimen to be labelled and sent to the lab.

i don't know if he was joking. but he does have 3 jobs at this time.

nyc is different from long island ny(where i am). nyc has all the help they can get. higher wages and one can get around anywhere they can in the city. (sort of like manila except we use trains) but the downside is that everything is expensive over in the city. and the living spaces are small and yet expensive. (which is probably why your friend has three jobs)

(hey, conditions in manila are the same - expensive rent, expensive food, easy accessibility, anything you want is available at 3am)

actually you only have to read some posts online, from rns still in the philippines.

well i hope i dont have to work with them. if i do.....

if they come to my unit i will make sure they realize what working here is really all about.

[pinoy_guy]

i work nights so...no bathing. i havent sponged a patient since phc.

the baths are usually at night here, because mds are passing by during the daytime, so it's harder to do your job if you're in the middle of bathing a patient.

if the patient poops though, you'll be forced to give a bath. especially the confused patients who smear stuff all over the bed.

restraints are not indicated for such patients.

work without cnas is a crazy notion!! is this althroughout california?

i don't know if it's throughout california, but it's in central california.

our cnas are invaluable. some draw blood and do ekgs.

blood draws are done by lab techs, except in icu.

ekgs by unit secretaries.

cnas are rare where i'm working.

very helpful if you have 4 rule-outs that need troponin draws and ekg in the next 30 minutes.

cardiac enzymes are done q6h x 3.

i think icu rns have to do the blood draws themselves, so the 1:2 ratio works against them.

vitals and i&os i also do. vitals at start of shift so i know how my patient is doing and whether the report i get from my colleague is true or not. i&os because the surgery guys are anal about it.

vitals q4h.

i&os...i like doing them myself, because when i go to med or surg floor with cnas (1 cna for 12 patients), i usually get indecipherable writing with inaccurate figures.

current practice though is you'll have to serve the meals and take out the trays--additional jobs in an overburdened role.

nyc is different from long island ny(where i am). nyc has all the help they can get. higher wages and one can get around anywhere they can in the city. (sort of like manila except we use trains) but the downside is that everything is expensive over in the city. and the living spaces are small and yet expensive. (which is probably why your friend has three jobs)

so that's why he can do 3 jobs.

my friend seems to be enjoying life in nyc.

i'm afraid to visit nyc, because i might feel bad when i get back to work after seeing the work situation in nyc.

(hey, conditions in manila are the same - expensive rent, expensive food, easy accessibility, anything you want is available at 3am)

well.

manila is kinda similar...but the scale is disproportionate.

minimum daily wage in manila is $7/day...and a big mac meal is $2, almost 1/3 of your daily wage--leaving you with $5.

minimum hourly wage is $30 in nyc, and a big mac meal is $6...so assuming you work 8 hours a day, that's $240 daily wage, leaving you with $234 after your big mac meal.

well i hope i dont have to work with them. if i do.....

if they come to my unit i will make sure they realize what working here is really all about.

you know, i see such people more and more.

they are the ones sitting at the nurse's station either eating or chatting...and are eager and ready to go home before time. we wonder how they do their jobs when we rarely see them go into the patient's rooms.

they are usually the ones who pretend to work when the supervisor or manager is on the floor. i think they are called "brown nosers."

bad for the morale.

i don't think we need more of them.

[Rajiv]

I do not agree to this statement because if it's the case now why are recruiters here in the Philippines still hiring Filipino nurses. I personally believe that this is just an opinion of someone who doesn't know the real score, commenting on an issue that is isolated and does not represent the general working ethics of the Filipino nurses in majority.

[SilverSurfer]

I do not agree to this statement because if it's the case now why are recruiters here in the Philippines still hiring Filipino nurses. I personally believe that this is just an opinion of someone who doesn't know the real score, commenting on an issue that is isolated and does not represent the general working ethics of the Filipino nurses in majority.

[caloy]

I don't think anyone meant that hospitals are not recruiting filipinos anymore. It's just that more and more hospitals would rather not want to because of nurses not fulfilling their contracts. Previous posters have shared their own experiences regarding that.

[lawrence01]

I don't think anyone meant that hospitals are not recruiting filipinos anymore. It's just that more and more hospitals would rather not want to because of nurses not fulfilling their contracts. Previous posters have shared their own experiences regarding that.

Other countries has noticed this as well. Some may not know but Spain actually has a Memorandum of Agreement w/ PH to hire workers (see POEA website for reference), such as nurses and it was stressed out that the reason why it is only a MOA and just a pilot program at that is that they know about thet non-fulfillment of contracts being practiced by some nurses in the US. The Spanish Gov't stressed out that if the employers complain about any news of 'jumping ship' that they would cancel everything and those jumping ships will have their permits canceled and be deported back. This news came out more than a year ago; it just didn't made much media hype.

[suzanne4, RN]

I do not agree to this statement because if it's the case now why are recruiters here in the Philippines still hiring Filipino nurses. I personally believe that this is just an opinion of someone who doesn't know the real score, commenting on an issue that is isolated and does not represent the general working ethics of the Filipino nurses in majority.

Sorry, but even though there are recruiters, most are not recruiting for hospitals, and there are also no visas available, and we do not expect them for sometime. Recruiters have been making promises there for years and many have been unable to live up to what has been promised. Many are also recruiting there illegally.

And the better part is that the above posters are actually from the Philippines, and are actually in the US working in the RN role and have been doing so for sometime. They are quite factual in what they are posting.

I understand that you are new here, but you need to be aware of what is actually going on, not the rosy picture that some of these recruiters are boasting about.

Example, I am sure that the ones from the border towns in Texas, where they do not have the ratio laws have not told you that you will have 12 to 15 patients that you are responsible for and this is in a hospital and not a long term care facility. You must always check out everything before signing.

And there are many other threads here where specifics as to what is going on in PI is actually discussed on this foum. Please have a read.