the american dream: do not lose hope

World Philippines

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there are hundreds, maybe even thousands, of posts here pertaining to the current immigration and economic situation of the us. in addition, the situation is also being played out in the media all over the world (i would think). with all of these information out there, i think most, if not all, foreign nurses are already aware of the sad realities of wanting to work in the us.

i got the following lines from the novel the alchemist by paulo coelho:

"... the soul of the world is nourished by people's happiness... to realize one's destiny is a person's only real obligation...

and, when you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it."

so, to all my fellow pinoy rns out there who are still dreaming of one day being able to work in the us as a registered nurse, don't lose hope. do not be discouraged. you will meet a lot of people who get pleasure from splashing water over the smallest ember of hope that you may have. but, no one could/should ever tell you that your dreams are beyond your reach.

in my opinion, we are all brothers/sisters in the world of nursing and we should be benevolent enough to welcome and help our colleagues on their way in as we, ourselves, may be on our way out.

ignis fraternum eterna est

(the flames of our brotherhood will burn forever)

Specializes in this and that.

hushdawg, i dont agree what you said that" philippines is not an industrilized nation". i travel there almost every year x 20 plus years and despite shaddy homes as u said....or people in squatter areas...i dont see any poverty in philippines..almost every house/family there might live in bamboo /floating homes on the river but inside.. they own flat screen tv/ designer clothes /bags /karaoke/computer/cable/plus indulge in manicure/pedicure/hairdo every other day etc...now compare that to other countries..

everybody including dogs are studying to be an RN:smokin:.....i have distant cousins who graduated in nursing but hates nursing and work in car dealer etc. the schools are cashing on students because everybody is a second courser and not only that there is almost x20 patients to one student and there are a lot of bootleg nursing schools in my area and starving nursing students are paying nursing instructors to" mentor" them on weekend out of their own pocket money plus gives them extra cash under the table for them to comply with CHED requriements plus pay for their SNACKS.....the schools and government are giving them dilusional thoughts and ideas about the future of nursing....to this day...my cousin who graduated in nursing school in 1991 have never worked as a nurse bec she hates nursing and was just pressured by family to take up nursing...the daughter of my coworker graudated in usa in 1998 in nursing school and she never worked x1 day as a nurse (she was born and raised here in the Us with filipino family)...she hates nursing......she stays at home and bakes ..

just my 2 cents....:twocents:

"The Philippine Government is actually very strict in this regard.

It is the schools and review programs that generate unrealistic expectations among the nurses and students. One that I poke holes in and give reality checks to whenever I'm invited to give a seminar."

The Philippine government is allowing schools that have no graduates of any program continue to admit students, shame on the Philippine government for allowing these schools to continue. In the US these schools would be closed.

" What is so bizzare is that they spin stories to the nurses about the accreditation they have in the USA yet the certifications they provide are not even valid here in the Philippines!"

That is because the schools don't cover important topics like IV therapy or BLS.

"This is a major statement and one that I strongly promote.

Nursing is a difficult profession which takes a lot of dedication, energy and the ol' set of "blood, sweat and tears" to make a career out of. The payoff in financial and non-monitary reward alike is great in the end but there is no easy ticket."

Not true, when I read auto workers making $78/hour with no education and nurses with lots of education and a position with a lives at end, you know that nurses are not valued.

My wife, like many other Filipinas, was pressured into nursing by family who wanted her to go overseas and send money back home.

She went through the school, passed her local boards with flying colors and then promptly took a job doing medical transcription and refused to go any farther. Her heart is not in nursing... she would not be pressured into anything further.

Luckily for her it was only her father pushing her into this, her mother supported her decision to live her own life and stop the persuit of nursing.

Sounds like you wife made the right decision.

It is great that one has hope to go to another country to live and work. But one needs to be very realistic about this, having a dream is just not going to cut it any longer.

And one must understand what is going on in th world and how things are done. First of all, no matter what you may hear or think, there is not one country on this planet that has unlimited visas for any group of people or professions. Then you add in th economy. When things get bad, governments tighten things up even more. The US is having major issues in quite a few locales and to top if off, if the auto industry has to file for bankruptcy as well as expecting, hundreds of thousands of jobs can be lost. Sure you can say that this has nothing to do with nursing, but it does. Quite directly at that. When people lose their jobs, they lose health care coverage as well. So fewer visits to providers and you do not see elective surgery being performed. Money coming into the hospitals then also goes down so services are cut and employees get cut in the hospitals as well. And we are seeing nursing cuts all across the US currently.

And if you still go with the just under 10,000 green cards per year when there are visas, add in the fact that this number also includes other professions as well as children and spouses; you will see the number ot nurses to well under 3,000 from that number. Even if the bill before Congree passes, that would just make 20,000 visas for nurses per year extra, but that is for the entire world, not just the US and only for three years. 60,000 visas as what was recouped about 18 months ago was only a drop in the bucket and did not make any dent in the numbers and they were gone in just weeks if anyone remembers the time May/June of 2007 when people were given appts and then they were cancelled because they ran out of visas as it was.

Then add in the 400,000 to 500,000 unemployed nurses that are in the Philippines right now, depending on the news that you are reading as well as its source. The majority of those that go into nursing there wish to go to other countries. With 3,000 visas for nurses if you use the breakdown above, how many years for 400,000 to get to the US? And add in the 88,000 that will write the NLE next week. This makes the chances for anyone from the Philippines actually spiral downward and not get easier.

Realistically, one needs to consider about seven years now for a chance at a visa if they have not started the process as of yet. And the fact that the push is on to train more Americans as nurses. They would only need two years of training since the ADN that is done in the US is accepted in the US for licensure as well as the fact that none of them would have to go thru the immigration process that usually takes close to 18 months plus when there were many visas available but we all know that this is no longer the case. And the American can actually apply for licensure in many cases before they have completed their last day of classes and test within 6 weeks of graduating and then be able to begin work right away vs. the 6 years or so that it would take for someone from your country if there were visas available.

The retrogression occurs when there are more applicants than there are visas. This has already happened two times in the past couple of years as most are aware of. Expect things to take longer, not for the retrogression to be over. The number that are waiting for a chance at a visa just boggles the mind if you really look at the numbers that wish to work in the US or another country.

Then when I see people repeatedly posting about going for licensure in CA when there are too many reasons why not to is insane; add into it that even though we have been posting for almost one year that CA was going to change their requirements last January to require the local license before granting permission to test, and people are still submitting applications and they have never written the NLE. When they ask for the license, it means that you have tested, received your results and then waited for the license number and this is what they want to see. Writing to them that you are taking the exam in a week and will send the results in when you get them is not acceptable avenue to take and it just wastes everyones time. The BRN wastes time in sending out letters that you know that you are going to receive. Even if by accident, you get permission to test, it still does not mean that they are going to even consider you for licensure until you have met their requests. A reviewed will go over each and every file before anything is sent out, and if one does not have the NLE score as well as license in the file, even with a SSN#, they do not have to issue the license to you.

Holding a green card or dual citizenship does not exempt one from writing the NLE. Even if only a US citizen, verification needs to come directly from the PRC about not being legally able to write the exam, but people still continue and then complain when things did not work out for them and CA will not refund their money to them.

Writing a letter that you do not plan to work in your country is not a viable reason for any country when asked about the local license. There is not one other country that will permit one to work there without first having the local license before applying. The US has not gotten to that point, but I would not exclude it from becoming an actual requirement for immigration in the near future. The US is currently the only holdout to this requirement. And if you do not possess it and it is going to be more than five years for a chance at a visa, what are you going to do for work experience? No experience and it will be hard for any employer to want to hire, even an American that does not have any experience in the past two years is having issues with getting hired.

If you really want to be a nurse, then you should be up to practicing other places as well and hopefully did not go into nursing for the sole purpose of getting to the US. Second courser programs are no longer accepted in New Zealand either and you can expect that this may be the start of something new in other countries as well.

Best of luck to all of you that are waiting and while waiting, try to start something up with the PRC to cancel out all of the programs that do not have at least 70% pass rate on the NLE. That will make your chances to go to another country easier in the long run.

Several posters including myself have asked? What is your American Dream?

For my father's family, it was to have the freedom of speech and the ability to practice their religion. For my mother's family is was to escape from a famine that killed over 1 million people.

What is your reason to come to the USA.

Specializes in Hemodialysis, Operating Room Nurse, PACU.
hhmmmm sounds someone would react against this, lets wait and see what are there opinio

There's ALWAYS someone or somebody or SOMETHING here that would react against this particular topic.. I myself am really annoyed with these people always having something contrary to say about our (Pinoy RNs) desires, plans, aspirations and even our HOPES in working in the U.S. :angryfire Are they implying that hope is "delusional"? Just because we are people of SCIENCE? Please....! :yawn: People, Hope is the feeling that what is wanted can be had or that events will turn out for the best. Hope is something individualized and personal. That is something they cannot take away from YOU! We'll see what they'd say if they're on the death bed - disgustingly crawling their way through their stages of dying.. I'd probably laugh if they'd cling to 'hope'.

Frankly I have no idea what their trying to prove here.. Definitely some 'THING' would again say, "it is for your own good", "just presenting facts and uttter realities", and whatever irritating statements they would give, masquerading as friendly advice? Please.. We don't need it.. Give us a small amount of hope and leave us alone.. :nono:

And if there's one more thing I'd say about this... They are probably doing this because we are a THREAT to them. Not just to fill up vacant positions - but to outperform them as well. :yeah:

To all pinoy RNs here, just keep on hoping and PRAYING! - YES HOPING AND PRAYING! Because we'd never know what will happen in the future. Just keep your hopes up! God will definitely smile to those who are faithful and hopeful... :wink2:

GOD BLESS TO YOU ALL.. And 'You' included...

What you've said is very heartwarming about sacrafices. Guess what, Filipinos aren't the only ones who sacrafice. There are lots of ethnic groups out there who have sacraficed in order to make it better for their loved ones.

Lets do a reality check here, there isn't freedom of speech in the Philippines right as you state. Guess what, there isn't freedom of speech in China, there isn't freedom of speech in North Korea, and there isn't freedom of speech in Cuba. I can tell you that China and North Korea are very brutal to their citizens, more so than in the Philippines, and also they're under very brutal dictatorships.

I never intended to insinuate that Pinoys have it worse than others.

That was not my point at all.

I'm looking at the Pinoy situation as a similar stance for any and all immigrants who come to the USA.

Honestly I used to be a member of the College Republicans (14 years ago) and had the closed borders mindset that we were supporting and indoctrinated with.

Since I have worked with more ethnicities and worked in Humanitarian aid services and worked with massive immigrant communities I learned a LOT. Now having moved to the Philippines and experiencing the immigration process myself to live here long term I have a much greater appreciation for the emotional stress that goes with equating one's desires with the action of immigration.

I want the process to be more comprehensive and easier for all peoples, not just Filipinos. We just happen to be discussing this in the Philippine forum. ;)

Suzanne, that is the most logical and solidly grounded statement I've heard on the subject. Very much reality-based and does not bring in personal bias in the discussion.

While Pinoys have valid reasons to want to work abroad and they have strong emotional ties to being able to support the family; what you have stated is all true.

I still do not discourage anyone from their own American dream... but I do want to make sure that each prospective immigrant understands that it is not the land of milk and honey where money falls off the trees and houses are given away like cookies at a church bake sale.

There are two sides to this discussion as I see it:

One is the right and drive for foreigners wishing to come to the USA for work and life.

The other is the reality that even though the USA is better in a lot of ways that it has its own set of difficulties and struggles. Adding to that is the factor of immigration struggle and the sheer volume of those who WANT to come to the USA versus the number of people that CAN come to the USA and we do have to temper the hope with a strong reality that the dream may only remain as just that.

Regardless, it is better to hope than to have no hope at all.

"I never intended to insinuate that Pinoys have it worse than others.

That was not my point at all.

I'm looking at the Pinoy situation as a similar stance for any and all immigrants who come to the USA.

Honestly I used to be a member of the College Republicans (14 years ago) and had the closed borders mindset that we were supporting and indoctrinated with.

Since I have worked with more ethnicities and worked in Humanitarian aid services and worked with massive immigrant communities I learned a LOT. Now having moved to the Philippines and experiencing the immigration process myself to live here long term I have a much greater appreciation for the emotional stress that goes with equating one's desires with the action of immigration.

I want the process to be more comprehensive and easier for all peoples, not just Filipinos. We just happen to be discussing this in the Philippine forum."

I hear what you are saying. I have worked my whole life with all ethnicities, Philippines, Africans, Islanders, Latinos, and others and love it. What I have an issue is when I read a statement like this

"And if there's one more thing I'd say about this... They are probably doing this because we are a THREAT to them. Not just to fill up vacant positions - but to outperform them as well. "

Until the Philippines nurses have a higher rating in passing the NCLEX the first time, require shorter orientation time on the floor, and score higher patient outcomes and satisfaction statements like this I view as hostile. These are the nurses who want to come and work with us. One vacant positions are drying up and secondly the outperforming comment is not ground in reality.

Specializes in ACNP-BC, Adult Critical Care, Cardiology.
Suzanne, that is the most logical and solidly grounded statement I've heard on the subject. Very much reality-based and does not bring in personal bias in the discussion.

While Pinoys have valid reasons to want to work abroad and they have strong emotional ties to being able to support the family; what you have stated is all true.

I still do not discourage anyone from their own American dream... but I do want to make sure that each prospective immigrant understands that it is not the land of milk and honey where money falls off the trees and houses are given away like cookies at a church bake sale.

There are two sides to this discussion as I see it:

One is the right and drive for foreigners wishing to come to the USA for work and life.

The other is the reality that even though the USA is better in a lot of ways that it has its own set of difficulties and struggles. Adding to that is the factor of immigration struggle and the sheer volume of those who WANT to come to the USA versus the number of people that CAN come to the USA and we do have to temper the hope with a strong reality that the dream may only remain as just that.

Regardless, it is better to hope than to have no hope at all.

I've been reading this thread for quite a while and have been paying attention to your posts. You have quite a grasp of what the situation in the Philippines is like more so than the average foreigner living in Metro Manila. But before I give my opinion, I would like to set it straight that I am a first generation immigrant nurse from the Philippines who left the country in the 90's and is now a citizen of the US.

While the truth is that it is harder for a country like the Philippines with it's third world economy to compete globally, many of the problems faced by Filipinos are a result of our flawed view of how we choose our nation's leaders, our insistence on relying on revenues from remittances by overseas workers, and our lackluster involvement in matters pertaining to putting our country ahead of anything else.

It has always seemed easier to just jump ship and leave the Philippines to work overseas instead of pulling and working together to rebuild a country shattered by years of economic and political instability. Starting in the early 70's, droves of Filipino workers have found jobs in wealthier countries to make a good living and many of their families have enjoyed a comfortable existence because of that. And yes, I am guilty of that as I also left the Philippines because I didn't see any hope of seeing my personal dreams and career goals materializing when I was living in the Philippines.

The problem I see with this picture is that families of overseas workers are really the only ones that benefit. Kids of overseas workers are able to earn an education, live in proper and comfortable housing, and get to have certain luxuries that the average poor Filipino does not enjoy. It's almost a situation where each man is looking out for themselves alone while really keeping the status quo of corruption in the government and being blind to the fact that the rest of Filipinos who are not as lucky remain dirt poor.

While this order of things have remained a tried and tested method of getting one's family out of poverty since the 70's, the current order in world affairs have changed. There is a worldwide economic crisis right now and while the impact is probably more pronounced in countries like the Philippines, the typical reaction from some industrialized nations that have played host to Filipino workers is to tighten its policy on allowing non-native workers from access to jobs. This has nothing to do with racism or anything else but a natural response of countries to look out for it's own citizens' first and foremost.

While we continue to blame the Philippine government for the way the country has been managed for many years, let's realize that part of that blame belongs to ourselves as we are also the ones electing these officials into power. The last US elections is a great testament to the democratic process, one that Filipinos need to learn from. Maybe it's time to put matters on our own hands not by jumping ship like I did in the 1990's but by working together and rebuilding the country that we claim we love so much.

And if there's one more thing I'd say about this... They are probably doing this because we are a THREAT to them. Not just to fill up vacant positions - but to outperform them as well. :yeah:

OMG, I'm sorry but I have to laugh at that statement. Outperform???? More like "underperform" since some of them lack of skills and knowledge. It's not just because they just barely graduated from nursing school (and some of them are seasoned, but still don't have a clue), it's the fact that they lack the clinical experience while in nursing school. It all comes down to poor education. Unfortunately the nursing schools in the Philippines are cashing in on these poor students who want to become nurses. They have these high expectations and yet their education is not up to par. They're graduating from these nursing schools not having enough hands on clinical experience and it shows on the floor after they come here to the US and someone hires them. High risk nurse much. It's not the fault of the student, they're just going to school wanting to become nurses. But they have no idea that nursing in the US is different than nursing in the Philippines. Fact is that nursing education isn't what it used to be in the Philippines, unfortunately it's dropped tremendously, and it shows in their performance once they get here. For this reason it's good that the US is cracking down and are becoming more strict on foreign education.

In general I don't see Filipino nurses as a threat, I've learned so much from them, and also the other nurses who have come here from other countries. They all have something vital to offer in health care. I love the Filipino nurses that I currently work with. They were educated during the time when nursing education was excellent in their country. If you ever have a question, they know the answer. They can also critically think in a stat situation. Unfortunately I can't say the same for some of the new RNs.

Until the Philippines nurses have a higher rating in passing the NCLEX the first time, require shorter orientation time on the floor, and score higher patient outcomes and satisfaction statements like this I view as hostile. These are the nurses who want to come and work with us. One vacant positions are drying up and secondly the outperforming comment is not ground in reality.

Actually I agree with you on this point.

NCLEX scores for Filipinos are getting higher and higher but the reality is that there is not any evidence to say that Pinoys are outperforming US nurses in this regard.

I strongly dislike any "us" versus "them" mentalities as they only create barriers and prevent quality conversation.

I look at everyone as an equal until he or she gives me reason to believe otherwise.

To clarify, the NCLEX does not give a score, just pass or fail. The average US nurse has a fail rate of 10% the Philippine nurse have a fail rate about 50%.

To train a foreign grad correctly in the US it costs $40K while a US new grad is $15k.

PinoyNP - you brought up some great points, as I remember you live in Michigan, how are thing there? It must be kind of rough. If the auto plants close ( which I hope doesn't happen) how do you feel this will effect nursing?

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