Philippines News August 30-Sept5 issue

  1. For those of you that have not seen it, there is a full article on the front page written by the Dean of the University of the Philippines School of Nursing stating: (the version that is in print in the US)

    Don't hire new grads, dean tells US Nurses.

    Also included is the fact that Arkansas has refused to issue a licence to any nurse that took the NLE exam in June, 2006.

    For all of you that told me that I had no idea of what I was talking about and I am sure calling me every name in the book, there it is in black and white.
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  2. 78 Comments

  3. by   FutureUSRN
    Whew...good that I took and passed it in 2005.
  4. by   paraw
    I would like to react on the issue regarding DEAN TELLING NOT TO HIRE...

    I guess lets hear the side of the dean for that reason. I am not for the dean but we have to give her the benefit of the doubt and not just judge her.

    But on the other hand, It is so judgemental to think that a dean will will just tell and the US will just follow the command. It must have evidences regarding this matter and in fact IT IS NOT THE FAULT OF ALL THE NEWLY GRADUATES AND LICENSURE EXAMINEE.

    I deeply saddened by this issue, to the licensing authorities in the US, I know you have independent minds, please review the records of the students and not just be a puppet to a DEAN of UP.

    Well if to think her/his graduates anyway will still go to US. Don't you agree?
  5. by   NRSKarenRN
    [color=#215471]don't hire new grads, dean tells u.s. nurses
    jun ilagan, aug 30, 2006
    [font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]
    [font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]nurses in the united states involved directly or indirectly in the recruitment of nurses from the philippines should consider only candidates with a minimum two- to three-year work experience and completely desist from hiring fresh graduates.
  6. by   FutureUSRN
    .....that is against the doctrine of diversity and inclusiveness....the US has all the capability and technology to check the authenticity of document submitted....

    I cannot understand the wisdom of that statement....the only reason I can think of is Filipino nurses must first serve the Philippines before leaving the country....and if this is the reason, then it is lousy one....one cannot dictate or command others what to do....if the Philippines want to retain nurses, it must develop a policy that governs this objective....imagine that nurses here in the Philippines are not paid in the first six months of their work even after passing the board....and so it means to get one to two years experience, Filipino nurses will be forced to work without pay or underpaid....I don't support that idea....
  7. by   suzanne4
    Unfortunately, there have been fraudulent documents submitted, and with the increase in the Diploma mills where the nurse is not even getting any clinical training, and it does exist. I have worked with a few, the only way is to really clamp down on how things are being done there. The government is not.

    From cheating that is well documented on the exam, to the extremely poor pass rates on the exam, to issues with cheating on the other exams, what else is there to do?

    If all of you would go after those that are causing the problems, then things could get better, if not, they are only going to get worse for sometime.
  8. by   paraw
    hi

    I would like to focus my issue in DIPLOMA MILLS, PASSING RATE FIRST.

    To those who seems to work or have worked witn fraudulent documents, I dare you show it here and report it to the authorities!
    It seems that you are very sure of that... So that we will know the real score!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    If you can't have any evidences about it then You are having heresay here.

    Passing rate, lets consider also the type of exam of the BON not just the student!!!

    The exam must be objective and not subjective and opinionated tests as are happening here in the NLE!!!!!!!!!!!

    paraw
  9. by   caloy
    As a boardpasser of 2005, i understand that it is difficult for the 2006 passers that their competency is put into question. The fact remains that the results of that exam is qustionable at best. One option i heard is that they are looking into is that the boardpassers can sign a waiver that will not credit the results of his June2006 exam and he can just take the dec exam. If you pass the dec exam, no one can question the results of your exam.

    On the other hand, a person is allowed to take the nclex exam without passing the phil board right? What is the difference between a person who does not take the phil licensure exam but passes the nclex; and a person who passed a "questionable" phil licensure but also passes the nclex?

    Isn't the nclex the measure of our likelihood to be competent as nurses in america; and not the phil licensure? If so, why the "fear" (i'm sorry, lack of a more appropriate term) in the results of an exam that deals with the competency of a nurse in the phil. setting; not in a US setting (purpose of the nclex)?

    (Just thinking out loud)
  10. by   gracediwa
    I agree with Caloy. Why would US hospitals worry so much if the new graduate nurse passed the NCLEX?

    And also I hope the US BON get a copy of the exams given here in the Philippines so they would know the kind of questions asked. Very subjective. Weird exam, not much application of nursing intervention. We have to guess what's going in the exam makers' minds! Some, if not most, is not even related to nursing.

    There's a quota as I said on the other thread. Either there's too high scores or too low scores that why the percentage of passing gets pulled up or down. So it's imposibble to get even 80% passers or not even close to 70%.

    I would also like to react on the 2-3 years working experience needed. Twice a year there's thousands of Filipino nurses who passed. How come hospitals were still understaffed? Because for a Filipino nurse to get a job, one needs to pay the hospital to train you and/or work for 6 months without pay or allowance. If the newly grad came from a poor family who percevered so much and passed, how could she get a job when she's the one who needs to pay the hospital?

    I hope the dean knows what she's saying. She doesn't know what we're going through because she has all the luxuries she needs. Unless she opts to live a humbler life, which I doubt.
  11. by   nei_ph
    i hope someone would answer caloy's question. coz im confused at the way the US reacts to the NLE leak issue. we dont need the NLE to take the NCLEX so why make a fuss about the NLE leak if the US have their own qualifying exams...

    Quote from caloy
    As a boardpasser of 2005, i understand that it is difficult for the 2006 passers that their competency is put into question. The fact remains that the results of that exam is qustionable at best. One option i heard is that they are looking into is that the boardpassers can sign a waiver that will not credit the results of his June2006 exam and he can just take the dec exam. If you pass the dec exam, no one can question the results of your exam.

    On the other hand, a person is allowed to take the nclex exam without passing the phil board right? What is the difference between a person who does not take the phil licensure exam but passes the nclex; and a person who passed a "questionable" phil licensure but also passes the nclex?

    Isn't the nclex the measure of our likelihood to be competent as nurses in america; and not the phil licensure? If so, why the "fear" (i'm sorry, lack of a more appropriate term) in the results of an exam that deals with the competency of a nurse in the phil. setting; not in a US setting (purpose of the nclex)?

    (Just thinking out loud)
  12. by   lawrence01
    Just want to put my two cents on this issue. The way I see it their won't be any issues at all if the local grad didn't take the NLE from the start. He or she can just say that he has no intentions to be licensed and to work in the Philippines. That's it. No license to verify from the very start. Of course, if you're going to apply to a state where the CGFNS certification is still required you have to take the NLE and be licensed as the CGFNS certification process needs a local license but for the majority of states that don't need it (just the CES or direct to the BON) it's not advisable anymore to take the NLE unless of course you want to work as a RN in the Philippines for whatever your reason it may be. Some don't have plans to work as a RN in the Philippines because reputable employers really doesn't credit the trainings and the 6 months volunteer work done locally that is why there are so many that went straight in applying for all the necessary exams and immigration paperworks to the US and never worked as a RN in the Philippines. Those that chose to stay and work are the ones left behind and they are being left behind for 2-3 years or so while their counterparts are already in the U.S. earning U.S. experience.

    However, if you took the NLE and then you applied for eligibility for NCLEX you have to state that you took it. If you took and passed the 2006 NLE then you applied for eligibility and you didn't declare it that may be considered mis-representation or fraud. We must always remember that in the Philippines board exam passers are published in the print media and the newspaper's website as well and anything that is publicly published CAN be googled. PRC's website is open for everyone as well. Some local review centers publish those who passed under them as well on their websites and those can be googled as well because those are considered public property.

    To go back to the main issue..... it is not just presenting documents or licenses that is looked into. It is the manner on how you got it. Documents are just paper and licenses are just plastic cards to think of it. It is liken to a throphy; it is nothing if you didn't earned it properly. Everyone can buy a throphy for themselves but what good it is if people don't believe you truly earned it or you cheated to earn it.

    Employing a nurse isn't just about presenting documents and licenses. Employers look for attitude, behavior, and trustworthiness among other things. We are dealing with human life.

    These are just my opinion. Suzanne would be the best one to answer your query.
    Last edit by lawrence01 on Sep 2, '06
  13. by   kalayaan
    i do understand her position. i see where she is coming from. but I DO NOT AGREE WITH HERE. YOU CANNOT SAY "DO NOT ACCEPT NEW GRADS" and generalize everyone in one incompetent category.

    may i make a few comments:
    -- let us not forget that the hospital setup and practice in this country is different from the western practice
    -- u are lucky to sustain a job for 2 years for 2 reasons - bec there are not enough nursing jobs, depspite the so called drain, due to bureaucracy and cost cutting from the national and local governments. even if we lack nurses, the govt wont hire. and bec the pay is so low that u cant live off nurses salaries
    -- the role of the PRC and PNA is to monitor these schools and make sure to close all schools that do not meet their standards. come on, we all know those schools that are open solely for money making, yet they are still open. i refuse to believe that members of the PRC/PNA dont know who these schools are.
    - the local boards are a farce. even though less than 50% pass, the questions given could be answered by people who didnt even study nursing. most were morality questions that required biased answers. they try to avoid medical questions bec they dont want doctors to top the exam. so what? what is important is that they ask the right questions and filter the graduates.

    to issue a statement saying that the last board exams should be null/void is a given. the only way the students can redeem themselves is by taking it again, regardless of whose fault it is.

    however, that new grads should not be hired is an irresponsible statement, coming from the dean of the country's premier unviersity (UP). does she even believe that new nursing graduates from UP are incompetent?

    when i graduated i never thought i couldnt handle a nurses job. i new i needed more training as i only had a moderate amount of hands on experience. but i always knew i could do it. even as a new grad. and i know it goes the same to other new grads. in any hospital in the world, a nurse, regardless of experience, should still be evaluated on the first week or month on the job to make sure he/she knows what he/she is doing.

    if you want redemption, then:
    -- close all schools that are below standard
    -- format the board exams in such a way that you know competency is tested and not moral judgements
    -- do the retake of the june 2006 exam asap
    -- in exchange for 4 years of tuition, require all state and public medical schools to require a mandatory 2-year post-grad service to public hospitals and institutions to solve your brain drain. this includes all health related courses. state and public medical schools produce the best health professionals, this move alone should increase the quality of care patients recieve.

    the statement only aggravates the situation. the dean should recheck her equation bec her solution is wrong.
    Last edit by kalayaan on Sep 2, '06
  14. by   kalayaan
    Quote from nrskarenrn
    [color=#215471]don't hire new grads, dean tells u.s. nurses [color=#215471]
    jun ilagan, aug 30, 2006

    [font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]nurses in the united states involved directly or indirectly in the recruitment of nurses from the philippines should consider only candidates with a minimum two- to three-year work experience and completely desist from hiring fresh graduates.

    i think its even better to hire a new grad bec their practice is untainted. what new grads know are textbook practices. if they get experience, they might learn something that is different from us standards, and they can bring that to the us bec that is what theyre used to doing.

    no pun intended to those that came here with experience. all im saying is that you cant put biase on new grads.

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