Philippines News August 30-Sept5 issue - page 2

For those of you that have not seen it, there is a full article on the front page written by the Dean of the University of the Philippines School of Nursing stating: (the version that is in print in... Read More

  1. by   lawrence01
    I would have to say that I agree with what Kalayaan posted and it would seem to me that the school, Commission on Higher Education (in-charge of closing down substandards schools), BON and the PRC failed the nursing students and not the other way around.

    Just my two cents.
    Last edit by lawrence01 on Sep 2, '06
  2. by   asianrn
    [quote=suzanne4]For those of you that have not seen it, there is a full article on the front page written by the Dean of the University of the Philippines School of Nursing stating: (the version that is in print in the US)

    Don't hire new grads, dean tells US Nurses.


    Who is she again?? The dean of what? Seriously..Her jurisdiction is only around the nursing department of UP, and ONLY around that department...Who is she to even suggest not to hire new grads? What's her role in all of this? Am I missing something here?...There it goes the infamous crab mentality, and it's a shame!
  3. by   lynn10
    to the dean of up nursing, who are u to give command to US about not hiring those 2006 newly grads. that passed the NLE exam.this newly grads should be given a chance to prove to everybody that they deserved to be in the field of nursing.NLE is not the sole criteria to evaluate those nurses who want to work in US,beside the fact that it is not needed if they wish to take the NCLEX...and for UP DEAN OF NURSING,pls. never ever again give order or dictate to any governing bodies of what they should do.
  4. by   mtreyes
    let me just tell you guys that 83 percent of pinoys who take nclex pass it the first time... let us just continue studying....
  5. by   FutureUSRN
    I think that main issue is about Honesty. The 2006 NLE is tainted and we cannot blame US employers for thinking not to hire June 2006 NLE candidates, passed or not. The issue is beyond knowledge and competency. It dwells on attitude.
  6. by   caloy
    In reading the other posts in this thread, it seems that it is NOT the competency of the 2006 boardpassers being questioned; but their attitude/honesty that is being questioned. (correct me if i'm wrong; that's the way i understood the other posts).

    I think we should look at the phil licensure as what it was aimed to be; a measure of competence; not attitude/honesty. There would be no reasonable or logical way of judging a nurse's attitude/honesty solely by the RESULTS of that exam.

    To penalize those who passed that exam for the sole reason that they happen to take their exam on those particular days would be unfair. Much like a person who tripped on his own shoelace blaming another person sitting across him. Should they be punished just for being in the wrong place; on the wrong time?

    I don't see how this can be used against them; in terms of attitude/honesty? Granted that someone did cheat, should we hold that against ALL of the 2006 boardpassers? Isn't that saying all of them cheated? after all if we punish all of them, it says all of them are guilty (punishment, after all, should fit the crime).

    Wouldn't you say that would be a generalization? or even worse, a form of discrimination? If so, what would that say about OUR attitude?

    All i'm saying is that they should not be punished solely for taking that test. If a person/institution questions the competency of a 2006 boardpasser, it would be understandable. But to question their attitude/honesty, that just seems wrong/unfair.

    (just my opinion; i'm not being argumentative or anything)
  7. by   lawrence01
    Quote from caloy
    In reading the other posts in this thread, it seems that it is NOT the competency of the 2006 boardpassers being questioned; but their attitude/honesty that is being questioned. (correct me if i'm wrong; that's the way i understood the other posts).

    I think we should look at the phil licensure as what it was aimed to be; a measure of competence; not attitude/honesty. There would be no reasonable or logical way of judging a nurse's attitude/honesty solely by the RESULTS of that exam.

    To penalize those who passed that exam for the sole reason that they happen to take their exam on those particular days would be unfair. Much like a person who tripped on his own shoelace blaming another person sitting across him. Should they be punished just for being in the wrong place; on the wrong time?

    I don't see how this can be used against them; in terms of attitude/honesty? Granted that someone did cheat, should we hold that against ALL of the 2006 boardpassers? Isn't that saying all of them cheated? after all if we punish all of them, it says all of them are guilty (punishment, after all, should fit the crime).

    Wouldn't you say that would be a generalization? or even worse, a form of discrimination? If so, what would that say about OUR attitude?

    All i'm saying is that they should not be punished solely for taking that test. If a person/institution questions the competency of a 2006 boardpasser, it would be understandable. But to question their attitude/honesty, that just seems wrong/unfair.

    (just my opinion; i'm not being argumentative or anything)
    First of all, good post. :wink2:

    Attitude, behavior, honesty, and integrity among other things are included in searching for a good employee. There are so many nursing graduates and so many applying for a nursing job locally or abroad. We will be having the same documents and equivalent licenses. If employing a nurse is just base on paper and plastic then anyone can apply to any hospital and there will be no more interviews to be conducted. It will be just first to apply, first to be hired.

    Just my two cents.
  8. by   nrswnabee
    Quote from caloy
    In reading the other posts in this thread, it seems that it is NOT the competency of the 2006 boardpassers being questioned; but their attitude/honesty that is being questioned. (correct me if i'm wrong; that's the way i understood the other posts).

    I think we should look at the phil licensure as what it was aimed to be; a measure of competence; not attitude/honesty. There would be no reasonable or logical way of judging a nurse's attitude/honesty solely by the RESULTS of that exam.

    To penalize those who passed that exam for the sole reason that they happen to take their exam on those particular days would be unfair. Much like a person who tripped on his own shoelace blaming another person sitting across him. Should they be punished just for being in the wrong place; on the wrong time?

    I don't see how this can be used against them; in terms of attitude/honesty? Granted that someone did cheat, should we hold that against ALL of the 2006 boardpassers? Isn't that saying all of them cheated? after all if we punish all of them, it says all of them are guilty (punishment, after all, should fit the crime).

    Wouldn't you say that would be a generalization? or even worse, a form of discrimination? If so, what would that say about OUR attitude?

    All i'm saying is that they should not be punished solely for taking that test. If a person/institution questions the competency of a 2006 boardpasser, it would be understandable. But to question their attitude/honesty, that just seems wrong/unfair.

    (just my opinion; i'm not being argumentative or anything)
    -----

    i'd say that dean tuazon does not only target our new filipino nurses. it may be a big blow to our valued pinoy recent nle passers alright but let's also recognize the dean is also shooting all who make (er, puppets) the entire nursing educational and licensure system for a desperately needed clean-up. see, it's screaming corruption and whole lot of politicking that other means of causing CHANGE just won't DO (policy, legislation) anymore. how else can you explain how businesses can shamelessly pose as nursing schools? what about the recent NLE "incident" (er, indecent?) pointing to 2 "masterminds" from among the very people supposed to safeguard nursing quality? it's horrific. you can readily smell it's all about dirty money. the dean's move is indeed unpopular but we need to know she's after a shakedown of irresponsible crooks who feed on our poor nursing students. if their "products" no longer find it swift to get to health care america, then the commercialization grinds to a halt. the dean's statement is painful but there's a bigger, more malignant issue being addressed and MORE importantly, too.
  9. by   asianrn
    if the dean's ulterior motive is to protect the institution's credibility why go after the students? i don't quite comprehend and even stomach the fact that she send out letters to the so-called US employers not to hire new grads from the philippines...why???!! why go after the poor students? what do they know? she should go after and lobby against the "deans" and the "directors" behind all of these hooplas'. PNA, BON and together with all the credible nursing schools deans, professor and the likes should sit down and figure what they HAVE/NEED to do and why on earth they let all of these "at the corner of the street" nursing schools happen? Isn't most of the PNA boards and chairman together with BON, majority of them are from UP??...please correct me if I'm wrong..
  10. by   nrswnabee
    Quote from asianrn
    if the dean's ulterior motive is to protect the institution's credibility why go after the students? i don't quite comprehend and even stomach the fact that she send out letters to the so-called US employers not to hire new grads from the philippines...why???!! why go after the poor students? what do they know? she should go after and lobby against the "deans" and the "directors" behind all of these hooplas'. PNA, BON and together with all the credible nursing schools deans, professor and the likes should sit down and figure what they HAVE/NEED to do and why on earth they let all of these "at the corner of the street" nursing schools happen? Isn't most of the PNA boards and chairman together with BON, majority of them are from UP??...please correct me if I'm wrong..
    ---------

    the student-nurses aren't exactly the target of the dean's drastic recommendation. sad to say, they're caught between this long overdue effort to clean up the system and the continued operation of substandard "nursing schools" (or whatever other businesses feeding on all our nurse-wannabees). these same students fuel such diploma mills in return for their american dream. so if the students who graduate from such schools are barred from employment in the u.s., then these sham of nursing schools will be drained of their 'fuel' and so die naturally. it's a painful process and a necessary evil. my hope remains that this process won't be long and tedious for the country to restore it's tarnished reputation in the profession. 2-3 years looks reasonable for the more permanent reward of quality and decency.
  11. by   tantrum
    Quote from asianrn
    if the dean's ulterior motive is to protect the institution's credibility why go after the students? i don't quite comprehend and even stomach the fact that she send out letters to the so-called US employers not to hire new grads from the philippines...why???!! why go after the poor students? what do they know? she should go after and lobby against the "deans" and the "directors" behind all of these hooplas'. PNA, BON and together with all the credible nursing schools deans, professor and the likes should sit down and figure what they HAVE/NEED to do and why on earth they let all of these "at the corner of the street" nursing schools happen? Isn't most of the PNA boards and chairman together with BON, majority of them are from UP??...please correct me if I'm wrong..
    ONLY the CHED has the power to close or clamp down on Nursing schools.But that is not going to happen as previous CHED heads resigned because there's too much political pressure in doing so. I doubt Carlito Puno has the cojones to close down many schools. Some are even operating even with 0% passing in the NLE (although NLE questions are horrible). They should also at least check the clinical training of students. The PNA and BON are not UP-dominated (if they are, how can a character like Cordero get elected?). UP has too few graduates and alumni to really affect anything.
    OTOH, I dont agree that students with GOOD clinical training (that can be verified) during their Nursing school days should be required to have 2-3 years experience before employment overseas. Three years of BAD clinical experience can actually hinder you as you learn the wrong habits. Even those working in British hospitals have to adjust, although they will have better facility with the English language.
  12. by   paraw
    if you want redemption, then:
    -- close all schools that are below standard
    -- format the board exams in such a way that you know competency is tested and not moral judgements
    -- do the retake of the june 2006 exam asap
    -- in exchange for 4 years of tuition, require all state and public medical schools to require a mandatory 2-year post-grad service to public hospitals and institutions to solve your brain drain. this includes all health related courses. state and public medical schools produce the best health professionals, this move alone should increase the quality of care patients recieve.

    the statement only aggravates the situation. the dean should recheck her equation bec her solution is wrong.
    Last edited by kalayaan : Yesterday at 05:25 AM.


    I agree with kalaYaan with this set up, but kalayaan I would like also to ask you this question.

    Does our president have politicalwill to do this? Remeber next year is election year!!!!!!!!

    To also comment on other issues here.

    YES the CHED Must close thoSE school which are not performing very well but remember too, that some of that school are owned by government officials as reported by bandila.....

    PRC has quota, I guess 50% see statistics. I was not able to search in PRC website that 80-90% passed the NLE.

    Bureaucracy indeed is not good.
    As to dean tazon of UP... that US MUST NOT HIRE NEWLY GRAD NURSES BECAUSE OF COMPETENCY.... to her I guess as dean in my opinion, is not competent too because her new grad student are not competent.

    To those who believe that there are DIPLOMA MILLS. PROVE IT HERE I STILL DARE YOU I WANTED FACTS NOT PURELY HERESAY....
    Last edit by paraw on Sep 3, '06
  13. by   caloy
    Quote from nrswnabee
    ---------

    the student-nurses aren't exactly the target of the dean's drastic recommendation. sad to say, they're caught between this long overdue effort to clean up the system and the continued operation of substandard "nursing schools" (or whatever other businesses feeding on all our nurse-wannabees). these same students fuel such diploma mills in return for their american dream. so if the students who graduate from such schools are barred from employment in the u.s., then these sham of nursing schools will be drained of their 'fuel' and so die naturally. it's a painful process and a necessary evil. my hope remains that this process won't be long and tedious for the country to restore it's tarnished reputation in the profession. 2-3 years looks reasonable for the more permanent reward of quality and decency.
    If the student-nurses aren't the target, who are the targets? The diploma mills? The schools?

    I think most(if not all) of the people in this forum from the philippines would attest that this incident would not decrease the number of students who wants to take up nursing. The schools (or diploma mills) would not lose any business. These "corporations" would not lack of "fuel".

    It would be the nurses and not the "diploma mills" who will suffer.

    I agree that substandard schools should be expected to meet certain standards, but i can't imagine how the "dean's recommendation" would help in reform. - there are already a lot of suggestions on how to in this forum; so there is no need to repeat them -
    Last edit by caloy on Sep 4, '06

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