New Yorker looking to attend nursing school in The Philippines

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Nov 3, 2009

Where did you get this information? STTI Honor Society of Nursing doesn't even have chapters in colleges that only offer the ADN programs. I am an STTI Lambda Chapter member but I am the first to say that this organization is "elitist" and only has chapters in BSN-granting institutions in the US and internationally. STTI is NOT an accrediting board although they do give awards to certain chapters based in nursing schools for exemplary performance. It would be a good marketing tool for some Philippine nursing schools to seek chapter approval for STTI though.

I never said STTI is an ADN program, to me it is a sign of quality of nursing education where the College or University is vest in quality. I never said it was an accrediting body but a sign that the institution is looking at nursing issues and qualifies for membership. And I agree that is would be good for any college or university to join.

Hushdawg · Nov 3, 2009

It would also be nice if someone in the government here with two brain cells to rub together would overturn the crooked Judgement that CHED is not permitted to shut down unlicensed and under-performing schools and review centers! That would eliminate most of the debates that we have to deal with in these forums!

It would mean that roughly half of the current annual nurse numbers would be produced and then we'd see the overall test scores slowly rising across the board.

It's GOOD for the economy of the Philippines to weed out these waste-bin schools!

Think about it, higher standards for entrance exams mean that those who can't cut it in Nursing will be spending money for other preparation courses and actually getting the investment aspect of education instead of WASTING so much money on these poorly performing schools only to end up with an education you cannot use since you are failing the board exams over and over again.

I'd also like it if the NCLEX task force would do more than just make sure the NCLEX logo is used properly. Seems that if NCSBN and Pearson Vue are going to set up an NCELX task force internationally that they would at least have evaluation standards for NCLEX review schools. Sheesh.

Bottom Line is that since there is no real government or reputable private institution which is doing full nursing school evaluations the prospective nurse must do a lot more research on his or her own to make sure that the school being chosen is a quality center.

There are MANY schools here in the Philippines which can produce nurses that out-perform the average nurse from elsewhere (even US-Educated) because they have established reputations and understand the value of maintaining high quality standards with no compromise. (Hence, you will find many foreigners attending these schools)

Unfortunately the rest of the schools are creating such a bad reputation for Pinoy nursing as a whole. That the good name of Pinoy nurses that was made through the 1990s is now being run into the dirt.

Something's gotta give.

JADAYU · Nov 3, 2009

I don't think that being a foreign graduate alone can be a problem by itself. There was a "mass exodus" of Filipino Nurses to the US during the 60s-90s, and most of these nurses are still actively working as RNs in the US and have been successful in their field. Some have become Nurse Managers, Charge Nurses, or Nurse Practitioners---to name only a few positions they have held. And oh yes, they are foreign graduates and will always be considered as such. I think a problem could arise though if one enrolls himself in a nursing program (whether in the US or abroad) that is not duly-recognized and legitimate.

yes it does not matter, because when I volunteered at a hospital here in my state, I met a RN who studied in the Province she is now making 100K as an RN here in the states. Also my pediatric doctor got her doctorates degree in Manila, she is recognized as one of the best pediatrics in our state. And she even recommends that it is a good idea to study in the Philippines but she recommends that I should attend a college that is known in the Philippines which will make things easier. She even told me that some of her friends that are nurses are going back to the Philippines to further their education and will return to the U.S. because she said it is possible. Really, guys...if you are from the U.S. and know how to speak english the NCLEX shouldn't be a problem because you can get study guides from the U.S. in fact you have more advantage because you can speak and understand english. I really don't know why some people are looking down at Fil-Ams who study nursing in the U.S. It is true that you will be know as an international trained nurse but there will also be more training once you get hired. And there will be nurse shortage in the future due to the babyboomers who will be retiring, so it should be even more easier to get a job in the U.S. as long as you meet the requirements.

JADAYU · Nov 3, 2009

Hi,
I have got a friend or a batchmate from davao doctors college. she and her brother are both american citizens (but 100% filipino)...i think if you are an american citizen or resident you can take the NCLEX directly after gathering relevant documents, because when i asked my friend about it she told me that they are eligible to take the NCLEX because they are american citizens, in fact they are no longer required to provide an english language exam results.
davao city is very safe the safest city in the philippines. the city has 911 emergency response system, the only city outside US and canada to have such service..the city's 911 is patterned from the US and canada. the city is typhoon free, lots of fruits available, cost of living is relatively low, and there are a lot of nursing schools for you to choose from. i would recommend these schools, Ateneo de Davao, San Pedro college, davao doctors college or brokenshire college..
as what you have mentioned that you are a filipino, its just that you are americanized, i think theres no huge problem with that, as your appearance is a filipino...

yes that is true that if you are U.S. citizen you can go ahead and take the NCLEX at your state, because that is what the lady told me at Southville International Schools and Colleges. I won't have to sit for the NLE. You will only sit for the NLE if you are filipino citizen who is trying to go abroad. Also there are a lot of nurses in the Philippines without jobs because even if they try to go to abroad, do they have family there? Because it's not easy to just apply for the NCLEX in a state and then come to find out that there will be problems on where you will be staying while searching for a job, especially if you don't have saved up money.

5cats · Nov 3, 2009

It all depends on board requirements for foreign educated nurses, even when you are a US citizen, you are and will allways be foreign educated and have to meet requirements, and those can change anytime. And so theoretically they might want to see a licence in the country where you were trained, and they might want to see an english test, nobody knows what the requirements will be in some years, it just looks like it won't be easier, if you look what happened over the last years.

5cats

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Nov 3, 2009

I never said STTI is an ADN program, to me it is a sign of quality of nursing education where the College or University is vest in quality. I never said it was an accrediting body but a sign that the institution is looking at nursing issues and qualifies for membership. And I agree that is would be good for any college or university to join.

the Sigma Theta Tau judges the qualities of a nursing program

That statement is wrong on two levels:

1. Sigma Theta Tau is a nursing honor society and has nothing to do with evaluating quality of nursing programs.

2. When you say nursing programs, you speak globally of all nursing programs ranging from Diploma, ADN, BSN, and Graduate degrees. As I said, Sigma Theta Tau has NO chapters in schools offering the ADN and Diploma programs. Why would you say then that this organization "judges" the qualities of a nursing program" then?

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Nov 3, 2009

It would also be nice if someone in the government here with two brain cells to rub together would overturn the crooked Judgement that CHED is not permitted to shut down unlicensed and under-performing schools and review centers! That would eliminate most of the debates that we have to deal with in these forums!
It would mean that roughly half of the current annual nurse numbers would be produced and then we'd see the overall test scores slowly rising across the board.
It's GOOD for the economy of the Philippines to weed out these waste-bin schools!
Think about it, higher standards for entrance exams mean that those who can't cut it in Nursing will be spending money for other preparation courses and actually getting the investment aspect of education instead of WASTING so much money on these poorly performing schools only to end up with an education you cannot use since you are failing the board exams over and over again.
I'd also like it if the NCLEX task force would do more than just make sure the NCLEX logo is used properly. Seems that if NCSBN and Pearson Vue are going to set up an NCELX task force internationally that they would at least have evaluation standards for NCLEX review schools. Sheesh.
Bottom Line is that since there is no real government or reputable private institution which is doing full nursing school evaluations the prospective nurse must do a lot more research on his or her own to make sure that the school being chosen is a quality center.
There are MANY schools here in the Philippines which can produce nurses that out-perform the average nurse from elsewhere (even US-Educated) because they have established reputations and understand the value of maintaining high quality standards with no compromise. (Hence, you will find many foreigners attending these schools)
Unfortunately the rest of the schools are creating such a bad reputation for Pinoy nursing as a whole. That the good name of Pinoy nurses that was made through the 1990s is now being run into the dirt.
Something's gotta give.

I think you made some great points, about students doing research. And I am sure that there are good nursing programs in the Philippines with high standards. But no matter what the programs provide, are they able to provide clinical placements that have hospitals that have standards ( equipment, computer systems, and nursing practice) similar to the US Hospitals. Do the hospitals practice the same level of evidence based medicine?

Is the case mix similar to the US populations? Are the services ( outpatient services, home health, nursing home) available to the citizens similar to the US populations?

If the high quality nursing programs have access to programs that provide care similar to US Quality Healthcare, I would concur that these nurses have the potential to be equal footing with their US Counterparts.

My opinion still stands, for one to get the best education to practice nursing, it is optimal to go to college in the country you wish to practice, since they are the most familiar with local nursing practice.

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Nov 4, 2009

I think you made some great points, about students doing research. And I am sure that there are good nursing programs in the Philippines with high standards. But no matter what the programs provide, are they able to provide clinical placements that have hospitals that have standards ( equipment, computer systems, and nursing practice) similar to the US Hospitals. Do the hospitals practice the same level of evidence based medicine?

You act like evidence based medicine was invented in the US. Evidence based medicine is a concept that is followed throughout the world. Do you even read medical journals? even some of the nursing journals have research originating from countries outside the US. Have you looked at the pages of the Journal of Nursing Scholarship? I know you just mentioned STTI in a recent post. Some of the studies that journal approves for publication were conducted in third world countries in case you didn't notice. Physicians in the Philippines have been treating all sorts of pathologies and surgical problems using Western Medicine. Modalities used in the Philippines are similar to the US. Medical tourism is very popular in Asia particularly in India and now in the Philippines as well.

Is the case mix similar to the US populations? Are the services ( outpatient services, home health, nursing home) available to the citizens similar to the US populations?

Outpatient services are prevalent in the Philippines. Home health care and nursing homes are not prevalent. That is a cultural difference. Homebound Filipinos who require care and the frail or incapacitated elderly are cared for by family members. And what is the significance of that question anyway? Most nurses from the Philippines prefer to work in hospitals. New grad RN's from the US are not qualified to work in home care without acute care experience and I wouldn't recommend a nurse fresh from the Philippines to work in home care here in the US either.

If the high quality nursing programs have access to programs that provide care similar to US Quality Healthcare, I would concur that these nurses have the potential to be equal footing with their US Counterparts.

There are a couple hospitals in the Philippines that are Joint Commission accredited. There are hospitals there that have the same capability as US counterparts in terms of skilled manpower and technological advancements. The biggest problem with healthcare there is the disparity in access to care among the population. The very rich pay for their healthcare including hospitalization in private medical centers comparable to US facilities. The very poor tend to delay care until their health problems have advanced and then seek care in publicly funded hospitals typically run by the Department of Health which do have poorly equipped and run-down facilities. The Philippine General Hospital is a large tertiary facility in Manila affiliated with the University of the Philippines. I worked there as an RN and when I first started working in hospitals here in the US, my preceptor told me that she could easily tell that I have good clinical experience to back me up. She definitely felt the confidence I had in me. To be honest, I had more experience than this preceptor. Although, the facilities of the PGH are not quite the same as US counterparts, the pathology of patients seen there are way too advanced only a hospital in the same caliber as Cleveland Clinic or Mayo Clinic can handle the patients seen there, not even your neighborhood community hospital in the US would touch their patients.

My opinion still stands, for one to get the best education to practice nursing, it is optimal to go to college in the country you wish to practice, since they are the most familiar with local nursing practice.

You're right, ideally the prospective nurse should earn their degree in the country they wish to practice. But we're not living in an ideal world. There are circumstances inhenrent in each individual that forces them to sacrifice idealism for practical reasons. I wouldn't look down on another individual because they chose to earn their degree from another country if they prove to me that they are competent in performing their role. I am a graduate of a BSN program from the Philippines. I'm sure you've been faced with a dillemma before when you had to choose the less optimal alternative. But in the end, does it matter? did you arrive at the same goal anyway.

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Nov 4, 2009

"You act like evidence based medicine was invented in the US. Evidence based medicine is a concept that is followed throughout the world. Do you even read medical journals? even some of the nursing journals have research originating from countries outside the US. Have you looked at the pages of the Journal of Nursing Scholarship? I know you just mentioned STTI in a recent post. Some of the studies that journal approves for publication were conducted in third world countries in case you didn't notice. Physicians in the Philippines have been treating all sorts of pathologies and surgical problems using Western Medicine. Modalities used in the Philippines are similar to the US. Medical tourism is very popular in Asia particularly in India and now in the Philippines as well."

Once again I never said Evidence Based Medicine was invented in the USA, I believe it's roots are from the UK. And yes some studies are done in third world countries but usually around third world issues.

"Outpatient services are prevalent in the Philippines. Home health care and nursing homes are not prevalent. That is a cultural difference. Homebound Filipinos who require care and the frail or incapacitated elderly are cared for by family members. And what is the significance of that question anyway? Most nurses from the Philippines prefer to work in hospitals. New grad RN's from the US are not qualified to work in home care without acute care experience and I wouldn't recommend a nurse fresh from the Philippines to work in home care here in the US either"

I understand most Philippine Nurse wish to work in hospitals, the predicted nursing shortages are going to be in outpatient areas. I agree that a new nurse should not work in homecare ideally, but like you said this is not a perfect world. Most new grads would prefer working in a hospital however the jobs are not in hospitals and they are being employed in nursing homes or home care , two areas that a foreign nurse may not be exposed to.

"You're right, ideally the prospective nurse should earn their degree in the country they wish to practice. But we're not living in an ideal world. There are circumstances inhenrent in each individual that forces them to sacrifice idealism for practical reasons. I wouldn't look down on another individual because they chose to earn their degree from another country if they prove to me that they are competent in performing their role. I am a graduate of a BSN program from the Philippines. I'm sure you've been faced with a dillemma before when you had to choose the less optimal alternative. But in the end, does it matter? did you arrive at the same goal anyway."

I am glad that you agree, I also agree in the long run that an individual nurse's success is less dependent on education as they gain experience. But unfortunately, times are changing, orientations are being shortened and the hospitals are looking to nursing schools to bridge this gap. Are the Philippine Schools adapting by providing Nursing home and skilled home care experiences?

As a parent, I see the value of education, but I also thought of college as a place were my children could mature and grow.

I felt their successful college experience was in part to be independent have the opportunity to meet new peers especially in fields of study that they were not attending college in.

NurseCubanitaRN2b, BSN, RN · Nov 5, 2009

I've worked with many excellent nurses in the Philippines who graduated from nursing school when it was reputable. I'm sorry but nursing schools in the Philippines aren't reputable anymore because of these underperforming schools that are producing nurses. It's sad because these schools are giving the reputable ones a bad name. I work with many Filipino nurses who are "complaining" about the quality of nursing education in the Philippines, and they see that there is a problem. They talk about how things were soooooooo different when they got their nursing education. I don't question these nurses at all, I would trust them with my life. They know what they're doing. But unfortunately I've worked with some of the newer generation RN's coming from the Philippines that these older generation Filipinos are questioning their skills and knowledge. I'm sorry to say that some just don't have it and all they did was learn how to pass English exams and NCLEX but that doesn't make them capable. I know some of you are going to go in a tid bit, but that's just reality and I see it everyday.

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Nov 5, 2009

Once again I never said Evidence Based Medicine was invented in the USA, I believe it's roots are from the UK. And yes some studies are done in third world countries but usually around third world issues.

Bottomline is you have not really read enough medical journals because if you do, you'll find that some studies on CABG and other heart surgeries originate in countries like India and even Turkey. In case you don't know, cardiac surgeons in the Philippines can perform the same surgeries done in the US if the patient has the funds to pay for the service.

I understand most Philippine Nurse wish to work in hospitals, the predicted nursing shortages are going to be in outpatient areas. I agree that a new nurse should not work in homecare ideally, but like you said this is not a perfect world. Most new grads would prefer working in a hospital however the jobs are not in hospitals and they are being employed in nursing homes or home care , two areas that a foreign nurse may not be exposed to.

Are you kidding me? where did you come up with this data that the shortages are going to be in outptaient areas. I completely disagree. The biggest need is for nurses with high level skills in intensive care units and other similar high acuity areas. That's where the job openings in hospitals are at the highest. Nurses who can do basic office skills are easy to find.

Are the Philippine Schools adapting by providing Nursing home and skilled home care experiences?

That question is nothing but hogwash. Nursing home experience for any nursing student consist of nothing but basic nursing skills. It's purely Fundamentals of Nursing consisting of bedmaking, transferring, and assisting patients with ADL's. Med administration in a nursing home setting is definitely different than in a hospital setting. In the nursing home, the nurse spends the entire morning passing pills to 30 residents - why would you subject a student to that much of a load? I guess not unless you want them to hate nursing from the get go.

Your home care statement is a moot point. Any new grad nurse can not work in home care from the get go. At any rate, nursing students from the Philippines do home and community visits as part of a course on Community Health Nursing at second year level and ending at the senior year. You obviosuly do not have any idea and you are purely going with your own unfounded assumptions.

Second year nursing students in the Philippines change beds, bathe and groom patients, and assist them with mobility. It's a given in any hospital there that than when nursing students show up, the patients will all end up smelling like flowers!

As a parent, I see the value of education, but I also thought of college as a place were my children could mature and grow.
I felt their successful college experience was in part to be independent have the opportunity to meet new peers especially in fields of study that they were not attending college in.

and your point is?

Silverdragon102, BSN · Nov 6, 2009

Closing thread for staff review