I thought there's a shortage of nurses in the Philippines??

vanillasurprise · Sep 18, 2007

where to work then? its sooo hard to get a job as a nurse here in manila. i graduated last year and am now working for one of the biggest corporations in manila. (it is one of the top 50 corporations in asia). i am a nurse but i am working in the corporate world. i am paid 15k a month which is twice more (i think) than nurses in private hospitals are paid. i only work 8 hours a day, mondays to fridays. I love my job cause i dont really do anything but i get paid well. and in addition, the place where i live is only 2 blocks away from the office. yup i know, very convenient. But I really want to work in a hospital... any hospital. even if they dont pay as well as my job now. I submitted my resume to 3 hospitals already here in manila but i havent received a call from any of them. i was really hoping to work in california where some of my relatives are, but with the retrogression in place, i think i'll have to wait a while. I'd like to work in Singapore but i read in the website of their board of nursing that u have to have at least 3 years hospital work experience. UK is also another choice but u also have to have at least 1 year hospital work experience. is there any way or chance of me getting a job there without any hospital work experience?

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Sep 18, 2007

Are you telling me that the USA is not having a nursing shortage? where did you get this information.
In my opinion, American employers should see this as a blessing, why? because they have more options. They can choose which applicant that suits their need. It doesn't matter if the Philippines can "SPIT" out thousands and thousands of nursing graduates, there is no problem with that (except to the nursing graduates who were "forced" to take up nursing, and to some who wasted time and money for a profession that they never felt a vocation)
Thats the reason we have checkpoints right? The "spit" out nursing graduates are filtered by never ending batteries of test just to make sure only the competent are to survive. first checkpoint:
1. the local nursing board, this test filters which examinee is competent enough to render safe nursing care in the Philippines. Yeah, yeah it was tainted but never the less, the government took the appropriate action and charged those who were involved with criminal cases.
2. Some U.S. states needs a local license for a foreign graduate to work in the U.S.
(California is one of them)
3. After scrutiny by the U.S. state board of nursing, they would decide if an applicant is allowed to sit for their exam (NCLEX)
4. NCLEX, wow! this is the most unique test I've ever heard off (CAT) this is a standardized test made by professionals, it is made for the sole purpose of testing whether your capable to render SAFE nursing care at an entry level.
5. Some states need you to pass English tests such as TOEFL etc...
6. If you we're able to survive the batteries of test (which i hope you did), and if you're able to find an employer, they would not hire you immediately, you need to pass an exam, its like an entrance exam.
After all the batteries of test, Im quite sure that only the competent nurse is able to make it this far, im sure that they are competent enough, just passing the nclex alone is a proof that your a competent nurse.
why? is it because they're not competent enough? or is it because of the lack of visa numbers. A few months ago, i read an article about BILL GATES lobbying for more visa numbers to deserving immigrants. He did not like the idea of limiting the number of immigrants, whats the point? why not allow entry to deserving people who is there to help you, americans. Its a fact that the u.s. is in dire need of nurses, a simple google search would yield evidence on this.
There is a need to hire more nurses now, if americans cant "SPIT" out competent nurses who will fill the gap? Who will take care of the patient? Its sad to hear that a law limits entry to competent foreign nurses because it just says so-LIMIT.

To answer some of your questions:

One has only to review the threads on this BB posted by knowledgeable nurses in the USA - there are literally THOUSANDS of posts regarding the lack of a shortage of nurses in the USA. There are roughly 180,000 opening per many estimates and at least 500, 000 licensed nurses not working as nurses. While some of those nurses have left but maintained licenses d/t injury or childcare issues or retirement, many left but maintain their licensure d/t hopes of returning if conditions improve (a retiring nurses, or one not to return generally let the license lapse or become inactive). There are also estimates of (by one count) 125, 000 students in the USA turned away that want to pursue Nursing.

When I went to school in the early 90s, there were literally 300-500 applicants every semester for 60 openings. And those openings were limited for maintaining the quality of the clinical experience.

That equals "no shortage" of Americans wanting these jobs and in the case of the already licensed, able to take those jobs.....if the conditions were equitable.

Note, I say conditions.....not money. Many nurses would settle for less money if the working conditions were safe or tolerable.

Yes, American employers like large numbers of immigrants. D/T the nature of immagration rules and regs, they get an employee that is more "controllable" and less likely quit or object to poor conditions. But with this comes problems.

You see that with the increase in nursing programs in PI, the quality goes down. With US programs so restrictive only the best get in and graduate, the school has fewer students so they can make sure that they can go to better facilities to get better clinical experiences.

With more students, schools have to place more students in facilities and the students get poorer clinical experience.

The medical/nursing care is quite different. A recent facility that I worked at, had hired and imported several dozen Indian nurses. It took at least 6-9 monthes of supervised orientation before they were remotely ready to be on their own. Even then, they need quite a bit of help. I, as a traveler, was on my own within 3 shifts. There were also probably about a dozen that never really worked out adequately in the RN role.

Prior to recent immigration changes, I know of a facility that brought in number of PI nurses to fight union organising in a facility. First, the staff viewed them almost as strikebreakers (seen very poorly). Second, some of the nurses came over with spouses - one spouse would not work out as a US nurse, and get put as working as an aide, while they had to deal with contract issues. Or worse, both did not work out and owed money. Third, if they did is aides, they might be working under the direction of those that saw them as union/strike breakers.

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Virtually all states require a "local" license even from other USA nurses, unless the nurse has a legal residence in a compact state. I, for one, am licensed in 8 states and have paid fees to all of them.

Virtually all states require some indication that ALL nurses speak/read/write passable English. Despite this, I have dealt with emigrant nurses that were not functionally literate in English, and I have no clue as to how they passed English tests/classes. Though I have had known a few USA nurses that had serious grammar problems.

In some nations, this would not be a big issue. In the USA, however, there is a distinct prejudice against those that do not speak the language properly....especially if their skin color/name is "different". I get more complaints in Florida against emigrant nurses/MDs that are proficient in English than any other issue. Especially when the staff speak in Tagalog for hours on end, where patients are listening....it is seen as rude.

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Virtually all nurses get screened well, but despite all the requirements, we still get emigrant nurses, that often do not work out. The NCLEX or an English test is only one small part of the picture - plenty of people pass it and still are not effective nurses. It doesn't mean that they are bad people or not smart....it is difficult to go from new grad nurse or even experienced nurse to a whole new culture.

But the fact is that there is no need for PI "to spit" out nurses, when we can provide more than enough on our own. What is needed is to improve conditions in facilities so that US nurses do not quit the profession in droves.

The limits on immigration is to preserve the US job market, when there is a "true need" for a profession. In years when there has been enough evidence of a need, nurses have gotten preferred status.

But the fact is it is difficult for politicians to prove a need for increasing Visas, when there are plenty of nurses "in reserve" and US citizens being turned away from schools of Nursing.

chris_NC0112 · Sep 18, 2007

what suzanne explained here is true indeed, reality check for most of the nurses, and with the retrogression still in place, having passed an NCLEX exam is not a gurantee at all, I wonder if NCLEX exams will be put on hold for the moment while retrogression is still in place, it will just make matters worst for those who want to take the exam, pass it and then have to wait for a couple of years, even more . . unless, they can wait . . things changed nowadays, I guess, some newly grads need to honed their skills and try considering other countries too, let say, NZ, Australia and/or Canada....here in UK though, due to the recent increase of member countries from EU, nurses from Philippines are no longer on the government's top priorities. . .well, that's life. . ...

suzanne4, RN · Sep 19, 2007

The UK is no longer a viable option for any nurses from other continents that do not have an EU passport, it is extremely difficult to get a license there now, let alone a visa to work there. They actually are not renewing visas of those that have been there for several years.

And yes, many other countries want to see a local license as well as two years of experience at a minimum. This is exactly one big problem being caused by the over abundance of nurses that are being trained, no place for them to work in their field to get experience to go anywhere else. This is something that needs to be corrected in your country first, before anything else; instead of us hearing of new schools continuing to open up all of the time. Their instructors have no experience before teaching, so the students do not get the proper training that they need.

I am sure that there are some that will not agree with me, but I am thrilled that they are reinstituting the mandatory year of service or internship that they had in the past when nurses that graduated back when I did were required to complete. And that is where the excellent reputation came from. Back then, not from the training that we are seeing now.

And there are other provinces in your country that really need the help and you could help others, makes more sense to do that than look for jobs or training that you need to pay for to stay in Manila. If you really want to help others, no better place to start than your country, and you get the actual experience that you do in fact truly need. And you can make a difference in someone's life.

suzanne4, RN · Sep 19, 2007

And there is a very valid reason that other countries want nurses that have experience before they will grant them a visa. They want to see that their skills are adequate.

miss_cy · Sep 21, 2007

there is a shortage....in the provinces BUT NOT IN METRO MANILA! nurses wants to get a job in hospitals here in manila even those who live thousand miles from here, they rather leave their families in their hometown provinces just to work in the cities..hhaayyy... hospitals in the provinces are empty, im talking about big hospitals, general hospitals, medical centers in the provinces..no medical practitioners. indeed there is a shortage

And there is a very valid reason that other countries want nurses that have experience before they will grant them a visa. They want to see that their skills are adequate.

oneproudigorot, MSN, RN · Mar 14, 2008

You are going to find it difficult to find work in your country, and it is going to be a couple of years for you to get to the US, and that is not guaranteed. You may wish to consider other countries first to get the experience in place.
You are going to be up against many, many from your country that wish to work in the US, and there are less than 10,000 visas available per year for those from your country. Suspect that there are more than 10 times that number now waiting in one form or another. Just is not going to happen as quickly as some want, and for some, it is not going to happen.

That's so true. I am almost done with almost everyone exam required for nurses wanting to go to america but am still here in the Philippines.

To those new grads and new passers, consider passing all the exams (CGFNS, NCLEX, IELTS) before you work. Consider going to other countries to practice.

Lawrence is right, the government just can't or won't try to afford hiring nurses for the government hospitals and health units in the rural areas. That's a sad reality here that we have to deal with.

john83, BSN, RN · Mar 18, 2008

there is a shortage....in the provinces BUT NOT IN METRO MANILA! nurses wants to get a job in hospitals here in manila even those who live thousand miles from here, they rather leave their families in their hometown provinces just to work in the cities..hhaayyy... hospitals in the provinces are empty, im talking about big hospitals, general hospitals, medical centers in the provinces..no medical practitioners. indeed there is a shortage

No shortage even in Bacolod city, province of Negros Occidental. In fact, there is an oversupply. So much that there are no job vacancies for nurses and that private hospitals here see it as a lucrative business(you pay for working as a volunteer under a 3-month contract). For government hospitals, well, unless can afford to work for free, then you shouldn't work there.

In addition, a lot of nurses work not as a nurse but under other jobs(call center, etc.) because there are no vacancies and they'd earn, hence underemployed.

If people just had a choice of nationality(to choose their allegiance/citizenship), I'm sure it won't be Philippines.

spongebob6286, BSN, RN · Mar 18, 2008

I don't believe that their is a shortage of nurses here in manila & even in the provinces.

just imagine the numbers of nurses who passed nle(btw they are 2 nle per year).some nurses in the provinces would want to work in bigger hospitals here in mla,add those who were already residents of mla..there were piles of applications in hrd,they wouldn't even bother to look at it unless you have a relative inside who can talk to them & process your application asap!even if you didn't pass the qualifying examinations,that's fine,its who you know that matters.nurses in the provinces have 1:30 ratio (based on my aunt's experience),still hospitals won't hire,if 1 nurse can do everything why get another 1...

misspowers · Mar 19, 2008

Yesterday I was grinning and beaming because I passed the nclex. I've been applying to hospitals for 2 months now still no positive response from them. I'm out of money and most of the tertiary hospitals that I know asks for training fees. Prior to shifting to nursing I am a microbiologist, and sad to say janitors are well paid than nurses here!!! I'd rather be a microbiologist again. I'm torn between going back to my old profession and earn but my nursing skills will definitely suffer. :innerconfVisa screen application is $478 x 40= thats almost 20k!!!! Plus IELTS around 9k....I'm really confused now!!!

Nurses salary here is 4500-6000 pesos a month...that's not enough to feed me for a month.

I tried teaching it's hard to teach if you have limited experience. You need to take MAN and that's another expense. :urgycld:

The highs and lows of passing the nclex...:thnkg:so what do I do now?

purple_ylem · Mar 23, 2008

that's a gloomy forecast for someone like me who wants to apply here in manila :bluecry1:

i really need 6 months experience since i want to apply to apply to the crne...

:cry: ...a classmate of mine already had a headstart--she's been to 6-8 hospitals and waiting for a year now...well ah...she hasn't received a call to any of the hospitals she's applied to...

i guess it's really that bad huh? :crying2:

oh hey, i got a question: if i train with a hospital (i know some hospitals that conduct training but you gotta pay 'em), will that be considered hospital experience? can that be considered in the crne application...

share your thoughts...thanks

suzanne4, RN · Mar 23, 2008

Any training programs are considered just that, training. And they do not count as work experience in any other country.

Your country keeps wishing to train more and more nurses knowing well that there just are no jobs for them there, or in many other countries if they do not have actual work experience first.

This is extremely unfair to many of you, but again, most of you that just went into your training a couple of years ago, did so knowing that there were few if no jobs available where you live.

And we expect the US to require experience just like most other countries in the near future. If anything as a weeding tool since there are so many of you that wish to work in the US and not near enough visas to go around.