Workplace Bullying for Nurses - page 3

Earlier, I was flipping through the May 2012 issue of The Walrus, and on one of its pages, there is a short item written by Victoria Beale, titled Ratched Effect: Nurses, the original mean girls. She... Read More

  1. Visit  loriangel14 profile page
    4
    Not doom and gloom Eric.It's called being realistic.That's a typical reaction from people who aren't nurses yet and don't like what they hear.
    joanna73, Daisy_08, Fiona59, and 1 other like this.
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  3. Visit  Dela RN profile page
    1
    Quote from ericleeericlee
    is there any thing positive that can be said about the OR specialty other than witnessing surgical procedures?

    Although seeing surgical procedures is definitely one of the bonuses of the job there are other positives about working in the OR. Obviously some of these bonuses depend on the facility that you work at but most OR nurses I work with will generally say it gives you a great work/life balance and less shift work than floor nursing. This is obviously a generalization because there are exceptions but for the most part scheduled cases do occur through out the week during daytime hours.


    Other things I like about the OR is the unique team environment. It's actually pretty cool when you think about how all the people in the room are completely dedicated to that one patient in the room. The anesthesiologist, surgeon, respiratory therapist, residents and nurses. As a floor nurse I found the interaction with doctors pretty limiting. They didn't seem to know me (except as the nurse) and they were always in and out. It seemed really segregated to me so it's pretty neat to have everyone in the OR be on the same team.


    I still work on a med/surg floor and I found that some of the skills I have obtained from the OR are helpful on the floor. Besides the technical skills that you get a ton of experience in like IV starts, catheters, you also get a better understanding of how things work. Before the OR I always thought that a central line was the answer to all difficult IV starts and long term IV use but now I see that sometimes CVCs can be difficult to place and complications do occur.Basically they weren't as simple as I once thought. You get to use all sorts of drains, learn how to better position patients and actually get real hands on experience holding a bag valve mask that isn't in a code situation or isn't a mannequin in CPR class. It may seem easy but more than one anesthesiologist has said holding a bag-valve masks is a practiced skill. If you continue working goon the floor it's pretty neat to see patients on the floor pre-op, see them in surgery and then see them post op on the floor too!

    Quote from ericleeericlee
    There seem to be expert consensus that OR is one of the most boring and uninspiring fields in nursing, and that I am tempting career-happiness suicide by wanting to join the teams of OR after graduation. If true, I pity the hopefuls who are going into OR come this graduating year. Fortunately for me, I have this forum and the luxury of planning ahead.
    Honestly the OR isn't for everyone just like how LTC isn't for everyone either. One of the posters here said it best when she said that, that's the great thing about nursing, there's many different places a nurse can go. I've had boring days in the OR... eye surgery isn't my favourite but that's why it's nice that I'm on OR nurses and not just an eye surgery nurse. I get to do ortho, general, urology, ENT, plastics, neuro, etc. I guess I can compare it to floor nursing when I get a patient assignment that is "boring" but at least you won't have that same pt assignment forever.
    Fiona59 likes this.
  4. Visit  Daisy_08 profile page
    2
    Doom and gloom? You asked a question and got an answer. Sorry that answer was not what you wanted. Not everyone likes (insert whatever area). I see students most disadvantaged when they set their eye on one area only. They miss out on so many opportunities for learning and end up being severely disappointed. " I should not have to do X because I'm only going to work with ........" ( my fav is I should not have to toilet/wash/wipe/shave because I'm going to be an RN and I'll have aides to do that. But that's off topic and not at all directed at you Eric) Nursing is great in many ways, not so great in many ways. But I don't think anyone said not to go into it, or gave a poor outlook?
    Fiona59 and loriangel14 like this.
  5. Visit  Mandalynne profile page
    0
    Geez... This is one ironic thread.
  6. Visit  joanna73 profile page
    1
    Quote from ericleeericlee
    If you don't mind, I would like to hear corrections on what you think I said wrong again, so I don't further inflame this LPN vs RN flame war, or at least correct or defend my initial claim that LPNs are less-specialized than RNs.I simply think that LPNs and RNs received different basic training, with RNs having more indepth training in specific areas, hence the training-length and legal difference betwewen LPNs and RNs. Given that practical nurses now receive identical training to previous registered nurses in some provinces as you've said, and that recent registered nurse candidates are required to have a baccalaureate degree, I will assume the lengthened training time must indicate more is taught.Whereas if one completed advanced specialty training (as you wrote, usually after years of experience), I believe they are more knowledgeable in their specialized area than their peers who have not received additional training in the area. Which is why I gave the example that CRNAs (in the United States) would be more knowledgable in anesthesia than someone who graduated from medical school but has not yet taken any specialized medical residency program. Similarly, LPNs who have taken advanced specialty program will be more specialized in their specialist subject than RNs who have only received primary training (ie. general duty nurses).I do thank you for your advice and your real world observation. Personally, I intend to work in northern municipals and take advantage of the B.C. loan forgiveness program, as well as the increased employment opportunity in less urbanized and underserved parts of the province. After which I will hopefully be able to specialize in my preferred field.
    While I will attest to the fact that I had more clinical hours in my BSN program than the LPN program (3.5 vs. 2 years of clinical), the "indepth" knowledge is more of a myth. Nursing leadership, politics, trends...3 courses I can think of off the top of my head that were a complete waste of time. Oh, and 3 years of nursing theory. I've worked alongside some intelligent BSN's and some who made you wonder. At the moment, you're making general claims and false assumptions. For one, an RN is only "specialized" after they have actively specialized in an area, not before.
    Fiona59 likes this.
  7. Visit  Ruby Vee profile page
    3
    Quote from ericleeericlee
    Earlier, I was flipping through the May 2012 issue of The Walrus, and on one of its pages, there is a short item written by Victoria Beale, titled Ratched Effect: Nurses, the original mean girls. She writes:I am a recent entrant to a nursing program in Vancouver, B.C., and even though I have not worked in the healthcare sector, I can see the plausibility of Beale's observations, namely the exhaustibility of one's patience. I am, however, a little surprised by the researches that attribute nurse bullying to the perceived lesser ranking of nurses relative to other health professionals.

    I would be very interested to hear from those who has witnessed or experienced this "lateral violence" in the Canadian healthcare sector. How was it dealt with, and are novice or student nurses the most common victims? Or has one noticed acts of aggression made toward foreign-trained, less-specialized (eg. LPN), visible minority, male, or older nurses? Or vice versa?

    In three years time, I am expected to graduate from my nursing program as an Asian, male, registered nurse. I can't say at this point that I am worried at all about what has been stated in the article, nevertheless, I think this is a considerable issue given its commonness, and that one day it might happen to me or those around me, so I would like to have at least a little familiarity with current nurses' experiences.
    I followed your link, and was more interested in "The Bully Pulpit" article by Rachel Giese in which she asks if the anti-bullying hysteria is harming our kids. Anti-bullying hysteria is an extremely accurate way to describe what I've seen going on in these boards for the past several years. There is so much hysteria about the POSSIBILITY of experiencing bullying, that young people are posting to say they're afraid to become nurses because they MIGHT be bullied. Yet "bullying" is not a new phenomenon. It happened when I went to school, when my parents went to school and when my grandparents went to school. It's receiving more attention now, and I suspect that because of that, we're looking for it, we're seeing bullying where it doesn't really exist.

    New nurses are writing to AN to complain that they know their preceptor hates them because she doesn't smile at them when they come in to work in the morning, or because she had a "scornful" expression on her face when they did thus and such. Other posters are quick to jump on the thread and accuse the preceptor of lateral violence or of being a bully, and still others urge the OP to "report the bully" and "see that she loses her job" because "bullying should not be tolerated. Yet some of these "antibullying posts" are bullying in and of themselves.

    And then there are the posts that suggest "reporting" preceptors for such offenses as neglecting to wear gloves when touching a patient, flushing a dialysis catheter "incorrectly" (meaning, I'm afraid "not as my nursing instructor said to") or "not being supportive enough." It seems that these very same posters who are most vociferous against bullying are themselves the perpetrators of it.



    Giese writes: "
    [FONT=ff-tisa-web-pro]It's easy to recall with outrage the times we were teased or our son was called names, but tougher to admit the moments when we acted like thugs or our daughter behaved like a mean girl. The reality is that every kid can be awful and nasty and insensitive at times. The World Health Organization and the Canadian Council on Learning report that more than 25 percent of boys and 18 percent of girls in grades six through ten admitted to bullying others. Children must be taught to be kind and unselfish, just as they need to be instructed in reading and long division."

    Bullying, it seems, is something that is done to you. When you turn around and do it to someone else, you describe it as "giving as good as I got" or "getting my own in" or "they got what they deserved."

    [COLOR=#333333]Bullying will go away when we all stop doing it. We must learn to identify REAL bullying and distinguish it from interactions we don't like. Meanwhile, maybe we should all stop LOOKING for bullying, because when we look for it we'll find it -- even if it isn't really there. When we cavalierly indentify any behavior we don't like or that makes us uncomfortable as "bullying", we devalue REAL bullying.


    joanna73, itsmejuli, and heron like this.
  8. Visit  protoxeno profile page
    0
    eric,

    every work field has bullying, what do you think the terms "paying your dues" comes from? don't be persuaded by these old time hardcore nurses who don't believe you should do it for the money. your other option besides nursing is simply much worse because there will be bullying and you will be paid $12 bucks an hour selling something. So go into nursing man.
  9. Visit  Ruby Vee profile page
    3
    Quote from protoxeno
    eric,

    every work field has bullying, what do you think the terms "paying your dues" comes from? don't be persuaded by these old time hardcore nurses who don't believe you should do it for the money. your other option besides nursing is simply much worse because there will be bullying and you will be paid $12 bucks an hour selling something. So go into nursing man.
    Those "old time hard core nurses" are not the ones who are blathering on about "the calling" and how you shouldn't do it for the money. That would be those young, soft, good-looking nurses who all have so much more compassion than us old biters.
    joanna73, Fiona59, and loriangel14 like this.
  10. Visit  joanna73 profile page
    1
    Quote from protoxeno
    eric, every work field has bullying, what do you think the terms "paying your dues" comes from? don't be persuaded by these old time hardcore nurses who don't believe you should do it for the money. your other option besides nursing is simply much worse because there will be bullying and you will be paid $12 bucks an hour selling something. So go into nursing man.
    Based on your comment, "old time hardcore nurses", you've stereotyped an entire group of people. I find this ironic, since this thread is discussing workplace bullying. You are absolutely correct, bullying exists everywhere.
    Fiona59 likes this.
  11. Visit  pinkfish333 profile page
    0
    Im in Toronto Canada. Lateral violence is huge, Ive witnessed it in every job and student placement I have been at. I recently quit my dream job because I didnt want to put up with such a negative toxic unsupportive environment. The bullying I have seen is towards, all nurses, new and old, students, managers, allied staff.. everyone. Its awful. Good luck.
  12. Visit  JaneSmithRevisited profile page
    1
    I can speak from personal experience. I am wanting to leave my job so badly right now because the nurse who bullies me, is not only verbally agressive, but has been borderline physically aggressive as well. I've spoken to my manager but she has not been clear cut on what she's going to do about it. She agrees with me that the actions of this other nurse is not right but has not provided any solutions/alternatives. I feel quite defeated and I certainly feel oppressed. Lateral violence exist and I can attest to it. It's not fun and it's causing a lot of stress in my life right now. I can't see myself staying more than a year at this job but I will be needing the stable income for a few months right now. If I could just up and leave right now, I would.
    Fiona59 likes this.
  13. Visit  Fiona59 profile page
    1
    Oh, my manager KNOWS who our bullies are but she does nothing. She's too afraid, too lazy to deal with the paperwork required for discipline.

    I've made it known that the next time I'm the target I will document and go through the unions and HR. Now she leaves me alone.
    joanna73 likes this.
  14. Visit  joanna73 profile page
    1
    Jane Revisited, start documenting if this is the case, and inform your manager that next time, you will be contacting your union.
    Fiona59 likes this.


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