How are Schools getting away with pumping out so many new graduates for no jobs? - page 7

by Zenally 8,937 Views | 70 Comments

Question: How are Schools getting away with pumping out so many new graduates for no jobs? Thoughts: My first thought on this is that there is a lack of education or better yet lack of information discovered by students... Read More


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    I agree with CrunchRN, Until we stand together, nothing will change......sigh again


    ***tell your story to CNN! Let's overwhelm them with the truth***

    http://allnurses.com/first-year-afte...es-807138.html
    Last edit by elprup on Jan 10, '13 : Reason: Edit
    joanna73 and nursel56 like this.
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    Quote from sweetnurse786
    Now being in $150k (loans from before and loans from the nursing degree) debt, I am having a hard time getting a job. Unfortunately, i am a new graduate with a lot of finance/accounting experience, with volunteer experience, have lots and lots of certifications under my belt (I had to shell out a ton of money for that) and I am open to relocating. Now keep in mind, getting a license in different states cost about $300-$400 (license fee, license verification, electronic finger printing, taking extra courses) and then you have to maintain that license even if you decide not to use it...I mean come on, everyone wants to cash on this b.s that there is a shortage of nurses..
    *** I am sure you will find a job soon. You are EXACTLY what hospitals are looking for. Hospitals want BSNs now cause they are deep in debt and seen as less likely than debt free ADNs to vote with their feet when faced with poor working conditions.
    sweetnurse786 and Esme12 like this.
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    lost in translation
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    Quote from dirtyhippiegirl
    Meh. When my sister didn't get into the x-ray tech school that she applied to, her college career counselor convinced her that she would be able to get a job as a museum curator with a Bachelor's in History. She'll be lucky if she gets a job at a gas station with that degree, but don't tell her that.

    Yes, the people who run and work for colleges and universities have a vested interest in enrolling students for potentially useless degrees - including students like my sister who would better benefit from a more practical education.

    It's not just nursing.

    And, honestly, like someone mentioned earlier -- I feel worse for the people who graduate with law school-sized debt and can't find a job.
    Oh wow that was so wrong for the school to do that to your sister. And I know people with over 100K in private loans and make less than $14 a hour or are just not even employed.
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    It might not be a school's obligation to find you a job, but it is the responsibility of the advisers not to sell a bill of goods to prospective students. It is the responsibility of the agencies that accredit schools to slow things down when the job market is slow. I hear librarianship has crashed as a career choice, yet at the same time my small rural school couldn't find a full time school librarian for what they could afford to pay. (They hired a shared librarian with another district)
    sweetnurse786 likes this.
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    Quote from dirtyhippiegirl
    Meh. When my sister didn't get into the x-ray tech school that she applied to, her college career counselor convinced her that she would be able to get a job as a museum curator with a Bachelor's in History. She'll be lucky if she gets a job at a gas station with that degree, but don't tell her that.

    Yes, the people who run and work for colleges and universities have a vested interest in enrolling students for potentially useless degrees - including students like my sister who would better benefit from a more practical education.

    It's not just nursing.

    And, honestly, like someone mentioned earlier -- I feel worse for the people who graduate with law school-sized debt and can't find a job.
    *** But nursing _IS_ different. There are not employers of history majors out there lobbying state and federal governments to use tax payer money to vasty increase the number of history grads. There is not a lot of history major employers who see their profits cut as a result of having to treat and pay their history majors decently. There is nobody putting false and self serving "hisory major" shortage propaganda out there.
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    I'm a nursing student who resides in Chicago, now unless my city is exempt from the areas where job opportunities are scarce in nursing, I have to say that just from my observation, everyone that I know that has graduated in 2012 alone have already gained employment. I know a lot of people that has graduated in the past few years that are employed in the field. I am changing careers I'm a licensed hairstylist of eight years and I now have found the time to go to school to pursue my dream of working in the medical field. I have plenty of clients that are RN's even my Mother-in-Law is one. Not to mention the good amount of cousins I have that are RN's as well. All of them are actively employed. So is it safe to say that Chicago may not be one of those cities?
    malamud69 likes this.
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    Quote from PMFB-RN
    *** But nursing _IS_ different. There are not employers of history majors out there lobbying state and federal governments to use tax payer money to vasty increase the number of history grads. There is not a lot of history major employers who see their profits cut as a result of having to treat and pay their history majors decently. There is nobody putting false and self serving "hisory major" shortage propaganda out there.
    You're looking at what is happening to nursing education from a narrow perspective. What is happening in nursing education is merely a small part of a broken educational system, fostered by a general attitude among the middle and upper middle class that you need a university education - preferably a four year degree - to "succeed." Yes, mainstream media, nursing recruiters, etc. are pushing a false nursing job shortage out there. (Although, honestly, I haven't heard nearly as much about it over the last year in the media?) But I don't see how that is any different from the same outlets also stating that a four year degree is necessary for a basic, entry level position or any different from my sister's career counselor telling her something that is blatantly false.

    This isn't about history majors or nursing majors. It's about all majors. There's a ton of money tied up in government incentives to churn out grads of all stripes. Back to work/retraining programs are also big in the hospitality and technology industries, which have also suffered major downturns in the poor economy. For-profit colleges churn out plenty of grads with useless degrees in IT, teaching, and legal-type areas. Community college graduates - esp. those with technology-related degrees - are finding that a bachelor's degree is required for entry level positions.

    All employers reduce profit when they treat and pay their employers decently, obviously.
  9. 0
    "All employers reduce profit when they treat and pay their employers decently, obviously."

    This is not true, some employers have found treating and paying their employees decently attracts better employees which results in higher profits through either (or both) more productive employees (in any of several ways) or avoiding the costs associated with crappy employees.

    I agree with the rest of your post. It is like cosmetics, home ownership, and band in grade school.

    Cosmetics (all types, including teeth whitening and hair coloring) make people look better compared to people who who don't do them. But once everyone is doing them, we have the same range of attractiveness that we had when no one was doing them except now we are spending billions of dollars per year and umpteen hours.

    Home ownership and band in elementary school and college educations are associated with many benefits but the politicians and educators often forget that many of those benefits are the result of the traits that lead to them as much or probably more than anything else about them.
    Last edit by Saysfaa on Jan 11, '13
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    I think publicly funded schools (perhaps just community colleges?) actually do have to answer for the number of nurses they're training, at least in Texas.

    I was speaking to our DON about the job crunch and the flood of nurses and she told me every year they have to evaluate how many of their students actually attained jobs in the field and adjust the number of seats based on the findings. My program was prepared to cut seats (we have 40 spots per year) but found that almost all students who were actively looking were employed within a year. Fewer and fewer are finding employment in hospitals (we're an ADN program) but the employment is still there.

    I will say this: nursing is stupid. Looking around at other health professions like PT/PTAs, RT, MD who tightly control the market (limiting spots in programs/hospitalsto keep demand high), they are so much better off. I don't know how our boards let this chaos happen, but now us newbies are paying the price for greed and panic. The powers that be could have put CONTROLLED effort into upping interest in the nursing field and avoided this free-for-all. Say what you want, but there should be NO Everest or Devry RN programs. There should be no clinical spots available for unaccredited programs which would, of course, make them non-existent. Programs shouldn't be opening in this environment where clinical time is almost impossible to secure. Students are doing clinicals in every place BUT hospitals due to there being too many programs with too many students.

    Our profession is better than that.

    And I didn't read responses, so sorry for any redundancy
    Last edit by Stephalump on Jan 18, '13
    subee likes this.


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