How are Schools getting away with pumping out so many new graduates for no jobs? - page 5

Question: How are Schools getting away with pumping out so many new graduates for no jobs? Thoughts: My first thought on this is that there is a lack of education or better yet lack of information discovered by students... Read More

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    New Grad Nurses struggling to find job - CNN Reporter wants to hear from youWe are working with Annalyn Kurtz, a CNN Money Reporter, to get info for an article that will highlight this nationwide issue. Read More...
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    Quote from CrunchRN
    Normally i would agree Elkpark. However there are a lot of people spending a lot of time and money perpetuating the myths currently about nursing opportunities and very few realistic and honest articles about the reality.

    And all those :can't get in anywhere else" 50 k private schools? They are outright lying to get students.
    Some of them are outright lying, and they should be penalized for such.

    This problem, however, if not confined to nursing. Look at how many recent law school graduates are unable to find jobs in the field--i.e. more than a job a Starbucks. I don't know the exact percentage of graduates from each type of school--nursing vs. law--who can't, but I know each has a significant number. People who enter both law school and nursing school (or any type of college/graduate school/etc.) have to know what they are getting into. They have to do the research and know that a job is not a sure thing once they graduate.

    Do I feel bad for people who complete school and cannot find a job? Absolutely. And I know this is easy to say since I was never in this boat, but unless the school flat out promises you a nursing job after completing nursing school, they are not responsible, financially or otherwise, if a job is not obtained.
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    Question: How are Schools getting away with pumping out so many new graduates for no jobs?
    *** They have been paid to do so. What's worse is that we nurses helped (through our taxes) pay them to do it. Those who stand to gain financialy have lobbied state and federal governments to dump vast sums of money into school to create or expand nursing programs.

    What I don't agree with is all of the media exaggeration in regards to a nursing shortage.

    *** The "nursing shortage" is NOT a media exaggeration. The "nursing shortage" is deliberate false propaganda put out by those who stand to gain financialy from a glut of nurses. The goal was to create a vast over supply of nurses. The poor economy moved that day ahead by a few years but the glut was created intentionaly.

    Nursing schools should not be taking advantage of students be perpetuating the lie. Some of the costs to go to accelerated BSN programs is ridiculous...
    *** Yes of course it is. The nursing schools stand to gain financialy from creating a glut of nurses. that is why nursing school have been one of the primary groups spreading the false "nursing shortage" propaganda. (same reason for the push for Magnet and the DNP) Nurse employers being the main propgandists. You see for some time now (prior to 2008) nurses wages have been going up and working condition getting better. Healthcare corporations and others who employ nurses saw their costs going up and their profits shrinking. The answer was to create a huge glut of nurses so that there would be several unemployed nurses lined up ready to take any nurses job if s/he could no longer stand the unsafe working conditions, harrassment from managment or low wages. When there were plenty of nursing jobs available (not the same as a shortage of nurses) employers had to be nice to their nurses or risk nurses voting with their feet. Now, thanks to the glut of nurses they don't have to be nice to us, and it shows.

    I think that there should be a law that says that the schools will only be allowed a certain number of students based on the guarantee of a certain amount of new graduate jobs per year for the areas.
    *** That would never happen. A situation like you describe would mean that health care corporations would have to treat and pay it's nurses decently. As already explained that is expensive and cuts into profits.
    KelRN215, wooh, and Susie2310 like this.
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    Quote from elkpark
    I understand that many folks going into nursing are tied to a particular area for family reasons -- however, I think that has to be considered when considering a career in nursing, and when criticizing schools for continuing to offer nursing programs when the employment market for nurses in a particular area is saturated. It's not the fault or responsibility of the schools if their nursing graduates can't/won't relocate to get a job. The graduates from other departments of the school are not expecting to be able to get a job in the town they went to school in, and you have to think about how realistic an expectation that is.
    And it is time to realize that if you want to change careers, and, for whatever reason, you are not able to relocate once you are done with school, then nursing is not the best choice. Is it fair to say HAVE to move just to get a job? No, not really. But, that has been the reality in may professions for a while and it is starting to become that way now it nursing. It stinks is relocating is difficult for you, but that is the way it is.
    SHGR, joanna73, wooh, and 1 other like this.
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    Quote from malamud69
    Interesting...this old argument again...seems to me where I live with the hundreds, perhaps thousands of new students each year that are "churned" out as some would lead you to believe, if the problem was so bad I'd be seeing nurses on the side of the road with signs that might read "New grad will work for food..." Yet, when I talk to the administrators and people I know in the programs most of the new grads have jobs! Wow seems like the hype goes both ways...and as one of the posters mentioned above. It is up to each of us to secure a job...it was like that when I worked during the construction boom and all the way back when I was in high school ...nothing is made easier or harder by a shortage or a glut(remember this is the good ol' USA workers have no real rights anyway so you must take what you can get)...you must jump in with both feet...nothing is handed to you because of your education...get a foot in somewhere and who you know will count! I have been hearing this whining for so long....education is education a job is a job. Quit complaining and go to work.
    Sweetie. Here's how marketing works. "Most our graduates have jobs" "There's a nursing shortage" See, it's not illegal to market with statements like these, they leave an out. I guess you are right though you can buy the snake oil or not. Some of the misinfo comes from .gov data. another source of snake oil.

    There are moves in various states to bring edu into reality by cutting some of the false advertising. Already some of the notorious institutions have been in the media in IL for false advertising, and, some of them have changed their marketing promises.

    I am very vocal with the information I have. I have friends and family who teach highschool and they are able to let students know what's what in counseling for college choices. I give them links to the real information they need in order to make decisions - and I am thanked by their parents!
    Last edit by netglow on Jan 9, '13
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    Quote from PMFB-RN
    *** They have been paid to do so. What's worse is that we nurses helped (through our taxes) pay them to do it. Those who stand to gain financialy have lobbied state and federal governments to dump vast sums of money into school to create or expand nursing programs.

    What I don't agree with is all of the media exaggeration in regards to a nursing shortage.

    *** The "nursing shortage" is NOT a media exaggeration. The "nursing shortage" is deliberate false propaganda put out by those who stand to gain financialy from a glut of nurses. The goal was to create a vast over supply of nurses. The poor economy moved that day ahead by a few years but the glut was created intentionaly.



    *** Yes of course it is. The nursing schools stand to gain financialy from creating a glut of nurses. that is why nursing school have been one of the primary groups spreading the false "nursing shortage" propaganda. (same reason for the push for Magnet and the DNP) Nurse employers being the main propgandists. You see for some time now (prior to 2008) nurses wages have been going up and working condition getting better. Healthcare corporations and others who employ nurses saw their costs going up and their profits shrinking. The answer was to create a huge glut of nurses so that there would be several unemployed nurses lined up ready to take any nurses job if s/he could no longer stand the unsafe working conditions, harrassment from managment or low wages. When there were plenty of nursing jobs available (not the same as a shortage of nurses) employers had to be nice to their nurses or risk nurses voting with their feet. Now, thanks to the glut of nurses they don't have to be nice to us, and it shows.

    *** That would never happen. A situation like you describe would mean that health care corporations would have to treat and pay it's nurses decently. As already explained that is expensive and cuts into profits.
    The community college nursing program in my area has expanded it's intake of students. There is also a medical assistant program. The college has a partnership with local health care businesses: A couple of large medical practices; hospital; surgery center owned by a large medical practice, and others.
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    We must all be constantly reminded that there are many allnurses.com members who are nursing program directors as well as educators.

    It's reasonable to assume that many (not all) will post from the standpoint of encouraging more to go into nursing simply because their own jobs depend on high enrollment numbers.

    You will see this type of post from some of those individuals:
    "follow your dreams"
    "you can do it"
    "there are endless opportunities in nursing"

    or

    "you aren't cut out for the job - you should should have known what you were getting into"
    "you must have gone into nursing for the money"
    "the negative posts are from a small percentage of nurses - most nurses are extremely fulfilled and happy"
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    i got a very interesting reply from a clinical instructor once.....
    " it is our job to help you *learn* how to be a safe nurse, not to get you a job."

    most nursing schools have waiting lists. my local cc recently opened up a "january class" to accommodate the huge interest in their program. there wasn't any application fee for the program, i dont believe, so i think the only way they get more money is by adding teachers, rotation sites/slots, but i don't think that the idea of nursing having a shortage is hurting them in any way.

    my school has at least admitted that in order to be competitive in my area you need to either a) work at a hospital in some capacity (tech/nurse intern etc) or b) get your bsn after your adn.

    *however* they made SUCH a stink during our program orientation about not working during school, getting reliable babysitters, so tough, blah blah. so they kinda changed their tune in 2 years
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    Quote from nursel56
    Nobody here would have reason to "hype" a shortage of nursing jobs. What would be gained by that? We already know the colleges and schools of nursing have a lot to gain. The only reason most of us talk about this at all is to counter-act the avalanche of misinformation ginning media coverage of nursing. There is an unholy alliance between the nurse lobby and popular media that guarantees most of the new grad difficulties never see the light of day.

    Since I've taken an interest in this topic, I read a large amount of nursing shortage related material. One story was a television report. His only source was a spokesperson for the AACN. I attempted to offer him a dose of the real world - and he politely responded that he'd checked back with the same source who reassured him that yes, there really is a nationwide critical nursing shortage. That type of apathy is not at all rare in the rank and file of reporters. Most of them look like they printed off a copy of the AACN Talking Points and signed their name to it.

    I agree that people should do their own research, but the type of research that would yield accurate information about other professions is nowhere near adequate to get the same information regarding the nursing job outlook because of propaganda and a state of flux in the numbers. I'm not ready to take the schools off the hook, especially since most of them are now aware of the new grad situation.

    I guess nursing has now become a job like liberal arts jobs have been for decades where there is a ton of competition and the time to start standing out is on your first day of nursing school.



    It is not staff nurses to blame. It's hospital financial management professionals. It's not personality, it's experience they are looking at. The attitude I'm seeing here (not specifically you nurseladybug) that suggests we have some sort of ulterior motive for writing about the non-nursing shortage is unfair and untrue in my opinion. I'm glad you got a job!



    You know, I am shocked that people have stuck their heads in the sand about the current economic situation. What? They think it doesn't touch hospitals? LOLOLOL. Sigh. . .

    There are a number of factors going on:

    1. The current economic crunch, which sadly, looks like it will only become worse in the years ahead.
    2. The cost of healthcare, and the move to outpatient treatment, as opposed to diagnostics and treatments-- in-hospital.

    There are other factors, but that's enough for now. The situation is what it is.


    NOTE:


    "In the early 1990s, outpatient care accounted for only 10% to 15% of hospital revenue, says Guy David, associate professor of healthcare management at the Wharton School of Business at the University of Pennsylvania. Today, that figure is closer to 60%. It's also a shift that's been happening across the board—sweeping along academic medical centers, community hospitals, for-profit chains and not-for-profit providers alike. And it's showing no sign of slowing."


    --Modern Healthcare. August, 2012.
    http://www.modernhealthcare.com/arti...ZINE/308049929
    nursel56 likes this.
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    I remember, not many years ago, the governor of my state trumpeting a shortage of nurses, and that the government would be increasing funding for nursing education.


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