will this kick me out of nursing school?! - page 3

Hi, I've been accepted into a nursing program and will start in December. My problem is this-when I was 17, I got into a bit of trouble with the law (a petty retail theft and a disorderly... Read More

  1. by   BSNtobe2009
    Quote from lizz
    It doesn't matter what an employment attorney says. It only matters what the board says. And the courts almost always side with the BRN in these situations.

    The director of my nursing program has a direct line into the BRN. She deals with these situations year after year. And she told us over and over: disclose it.

    If people want to take the risk and not disclose it ... go ahead. But don't be surprized if you don't get licensed and/or lose your license.

    :typing
    Are you saying that the BON is above the law?
  2. by   Sheri257
    Quote from BSNtobe2009
    No, I'm not wrong about it, and it's not considered perjury, and no, this does not vary under a single state in the USA.
    Uh ... yeah ... you are wrong about this.

    California BRN application under p. 12:

    http://www.rn.ca.gov/lic/pdf/exam_app_2004.pdf

    Quote:

    I certify under penalty of PERJURY under the laws of the state of California that all information provided in connection with this application for licensure is true, correct and complete. Providing false information or omitting required information is grounds for denial of licensure or license revocation in California.

    :typing
  3. by   BSNtobe2009
    Quote from lizz
    Uh ... yeah ... you are wrong about this.

    California BRN application under p. 12:

    http://www.rn.ca.gov/lic/pdf/exam_app_2004.pdf

    Quote:

    I certify under penalty of PERJURY under the laws of the state of California that all information provided in connection with this application for licensure is true, correct and complete. Providing false information or omitting required information is grounds for denial of licensure or license revocation in California.

    :typing
    Look, I'm not trying to be rude, but you don't understand what the legal terms mean or what they legally allow you to do.

    When you are given LEGAL PERMISSION to omit the convictions for the rest of your life by the courts that is NOT PERJURY!
  4. by   Sheri257
    Quote from BSNtobe2009
    Are you saying that the BON is above the law?
    The BRN has the legal authority to promulgate rules and regulations that have the same effect as law.

    And their duty, under the law first and foremost is to protect the public. Their duty is not to protect the confidentiality of past indiscretions.

    If you don't disclose it, you're essentially lying to the board about past incidents that could potentially affect public protection. No court is going to side with you on that.

    Take them to court ... you'll see. You still won't get licensed, I'll guarantee it.

    :typing
  5. by   Sheri257
    Quote from BSNtobe2009
    When you are given LEGAL PERMISSION to omit the convictions for the rest of your life by the courts that is NOT PERJURY!
    Not with nursing boards. Again, their duty is to protect the public, not you.

    On p. 12, for example, it clearly states that expunged records have to be reported.

    :typing
  6. by   BSNtobe2009
    Quote from lizz
    The BRN has the legal authority to promulgate rules and regulations that have the same effect as law.

    And their duty, under the law first and foremost is to protect the public. Their duty is not to protect the confidentiality of past indiscretions.

    If you don't disclose it, you're essentially lying to the board about past incidents that could potentially affect public protection. No court is going to side with you on that.

    Take them to court ... you'll see. You still won't get licensed, I'll guarantee it.

    :typing
    Not when there is a state law in place and that SUPERCEDES anything a Board of any profession has.

    I studied legal theory for FIVE YEARS. The problem is, you don't understand what the LEGAL FUNCTION of an expongement or a deferred judication is, or how it applies in practice, and that is why you don't understand why these individuals DO NOT have to disclose and cannot be charged with perjury or denied a license for their failure to.

    The BON, or any professional board, does not have special allowances that allows their policy to take precedence over established state law. You are comparing apples to oranges.
  7. by   Sheri257
    Quote from BSNtobe2009
    I studied legal theory for FIVE YEARS. The problem is, you don't understand what the LEGAL FUNCTION of an expongement or a deferred judication is, or how it applies in practice, and that is why you don't understand why these individuals DO NOT have to disclose and cannot be charged with perjury or denied a license for their failure to.
    Again, read the application. Expungement must be reported. If you don't it says right there you're guilty of perjury.

    Legal theory is ... well, theory. If you ever been to court (which I have, many times) I seriously doubt any judge is going to buy into this.

    Besides, the state has a lot more money to pay lawyers than we do. It's a waste of time to try to argue otherwise.

    Just go ahead and disclose it. You'll be much better off in the long run.

    :typing
  8. by   BSNtobe2009
    I read the link and reviewed the penal code, and it turns out we are both right, to a degree.

    California does have expungement and deferred adjudication and these function like they do in any other state. If you are given a job application and they ask if you have been convicted of a crime, you can legally say no, but here is where it gets interesting.

    http://www.criminalattorney.com/page...xpungement.htm

    What this article states, is the an expungement and deferred judication in California is virtually worthless, and California apparantly stands alone in this distinction according to the article.
  9. by   Sheri257
    Quote from BSNtobe2009
    What this article states, is the an expungement and deferred judication in California is virtually worthless, and California apparantly stands alone in this distinction according to the article.
    Well ... you were telling people that they didn't have to report expungements or deferred adjudications in any state.

    Bottom line: You really have to check with each BON. That's your best source of information.

    :typing
  10. by   Freedom42
    I agree: Check with your state's regulatory agency.

    After posting on this thread earlier, I reconfirmed that my state does not expunge criminal records, regardless of the outcome; that all felony records remain public, regardless of your age; adult records are never "sealed," regardless of the offense; and that the BON asks RN applicants to state in writing whether they have ever been convicted of a crime "other than minor traffic violations." It does not distinguish between felony and misdemeanor, and even if your case is "filed" here (meaning a deferred disposition -- you stay out of trouble for one year and the charge is dismissed) that charge is still on your record. I wouldn't disclose anything without checking with an attorney first; still, the information is easily obtained by anyone who wants access to it.
  11. by   BSNtobe2009
    Quote from Freedom42
    I agree: Check with your state's regulatory agency.

    After posting on this thread earlier, I reconfirmed that my state does not expunge criminal records, regardless of the outcome; that all felony records remain public, regardless of your age; adult records are never "sealed," regardless of the offense; and that the BON asks RN applicants to state in writing whether they have ever been convicted of a crime "other than minor traffic violations." It does not distinguish between felony and misdemeanor, and even if your case is "filed" here (meaning a deferred disposition -- you stay out of trouble for one year and the charge is dismissed) that charge is still on your record. I wouldn't disclose anything without checking with an attorney first; still, the information is easily obtained by anyone who wants access to it.
    I'm curious as to what state you are living in.
  12. by   Sheri257
    Quote from BSNtobe2009
    What this article states, is the an expungement and deferred judication in California is virtually worthless, and California apparantly stands alone in this distinction according to the article.
    Actually ... after doing a quick google search on this ... not really. California doesn't stand alone in requiring expungement disclosure. Some states do, some states don't, but it's not all that rare.

    In Arizona, for example, the application says on page 12 that when you answer the question on convictions:

    The fact that a conviction has been pardoned, expunged, dismissed, deferred, reclassified, redesignated or that your civil rights have been restored, does not mean that you answer this question "no." You would have to answer "yes" and give details on each conviction.

    http://www.azbn.gov/documents/applic...m%20Packet.pdf

    So it's not just a California thing.

    :typing
  13. by   Sheri257
    BTW ... the Arizona application also says you're guilty of fraud if you don't disclose it, and could be subject to criminal prosecution.

    :typing

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