will this kick me out of nursing school?! - page 2

Hi, I've been accepted into a nursing program and will start in December. My problem is this-when I was 17, I got into a bit of trouble with the law (a petty retail theft and a disorderly... Read More

  1. by   BSNtobe2009
    Quote from np_wannabe
    I've heard that anytime a record is sealed, those entities that look into it have the ability to see that you have a record that is sealed, but don't know what its "contents" contains. So, depending on the nature of the record, it may look even worse to have something covered up because they are left wondering what is in the sealed record....
    No, they do not. What people regard as 'sealed' is a confusion with people in understanding the difference in legal terms.

    Folks you have to understand, this has nothing to do with "hiding" anything. Unless you have studied higher levels of legal theory or worked in the court system, it's a hard concept to grasp.

    The purpose of these type of judgements is not to penalize someone forever for making a mistake for an otherwise law-abiding citizen. Expongements and deferred judgements are not given out like reductions in traffic court for speeding...they are taken very seriously by the court.

    Think of it as a pardon. If you were a convicted felon, and the state gave you a pardon, for the REST OF YOUR LIFE, you never have to disclose you were convicted for a felony on anything!

    The law PROHIBITS the BON in any state from holding this information against an applicant for licensure..or any other professional board of that state.

    I cannot emphasize enough that this is not a BON thing...this is a state law thing...and that "trumps" the BON.
  2. by   Lacie
    Quote from BSNtobe2009
    No, they do not. What people regard as 'sealed' is a confusion with people in understanding the difference in legal terms.

    Folks you have to understand, this has nothing to do with "hiding" anything. Unless you have studied higher levels of legal theory or worked in the court system, it's a hard concept to grasp.

    The purpose of these type of judgements is not to penalize someone forever for making a mistake for an otherwise law-abiding citizen. Expongements and deferred judgements are not given out like reductions in traffic court for speeding...they are taken very seriously by the court.

    Think of it as a pardon. If you were a convicted felon, and the state gave you a pardon, for the REST OF YOUR LIFE, you never have to disclose you were convicted for a felony on anything!

    The law PROHIBITS the BON in any state from holding this information against an applicant for licensure..or any other professional board of that state.

    I cannot emphasize enough that this is not a BON thing...this is a state law thing...and that "trumps" the BON.
    Correct advice!!!! State law overrides anything to do with the BON as they are not holier than thou to be exempt. If this occurred as a Juvenile and you were tried as a juvenile then DONT disclose it. The records are sealed at age 18 and it's your business and yours only. I have been in mgm/adm and have done alot of hiring and firing. Not once have I ever inquired regarding an individuals "juvenile" record. When you are asked about convictions they are concerned with your adult record of which is a matter of "public record". Your juvenile record is not of such. Background checks will be directed towards your adult record. What you are describing are minor misdemenor charges also and believe me there are alot of us out there that were "wild childs" at one time or another. It is not something that will carry with you for your life time. Leave it behind!
  3. by   BSNtobe2009
    Quote from Lacie
    Correct advice!!!! State law overrides anything to do with the BON as they are not holier than thou to be exempt. If this occurred as a Juvenile and you were tried as a juvenile then DONT disclose it. The records are sealed at age 18 and it's your business and yours only. I have been in mgm/adm and have done alot of hiring and firing. Not once have I ever inquired regarding an individuals "juvenile" record. When you are asked about convictions they are concerned with your adult record of which is a matter of "public record". Your juvenile record is not of such. Background checks will be directed towards your adult record. What you are describing are minor misdemenor charges also and believe me there are alot of us out there that were "wild childs" at one time or another. It is not something that will carry with you for your life time. Leave it behind!
    THANK YOU!

    The only time you would be required to disclose a criminal record (and it really isn't even a record), is if you had a deferred judgement and a JOB application asked for "prior arrests". Because legally, you have been arrested, but legally, you haven't been convicted. If it asks for convictions only, you can answer no to the question and that is a truthfull response.

    If a record is exponged, then both, are inaccessable (the arrest and conviction).

    This is the only aspect of law that might vary by state, because some states bar employers or any other state entity from requiring an individual to disclose an arrest, b/c an arrest doesn't equal conviction.

    However for the purposes of this post, she was told when she was 17 that her record was sealed directly by the court, and her background check was her proof they honored this.

    ALSO, to anyone who has minor dings on their adult record, there are tons of services on the internet that claim to be able to exponge your record..the truth is, you don't need an attorney to do this. They are scams.

    All you have to do is talk to the DA to see if he would be willing to ask a judge to grant it. This can be done with ALMOST any misdemeanor charge. DUI's and drug convictions are the most difficult to get expongements on, but you have to have evidence that you have taken steps to improve your life, and a good amount of time has passed, your chances are actually very good, no attorney needed.
  4. by   Lacie
    Also they usually do only a criminal background check and the Abuse registry. They dont go knocking on your first grade teachers door wanting to know if you ate paste or not. If your records were sealed then that's exactly what they mean. No one has access to those records after that time unless your a judge. I was a chronic runaway and had my share when I was young. Not one thing every showed up down the road and that's been a long road at my age lol. Take the advice that BSNtobe2009 has given and move on with your career plans and you life. Leave juvenile mistakes behind you. Concentrate on your future and make sure you make the right choices from there on and never never look back!
  5. by   godsgurl
    I am not sure if this wil help. My older sister got into trouble at 16. It was the same circumstance, her record was sealed. The Judge told my sister that after she turns 18 on any application when it is asked does she have any arrest record she is to answer No. She is now a nursing student. They would have to get a court order to open your file. There is no open file on you. Move on and don't look back. Your slate is clean.

    LJ
  6. by   PANurseRN1
    You should follow the advice of an attorney. No one here can legally adivse you, nor should they.
  7. by   PANurseRN1
    Quote from BSNtobe2009
    This has nothing to do with the Board of Nursing or laws in different states.

    This is where STATE LAW takes priority over any and all policies the BON has.

    Every state in the United States has a law that protects people who have deferred judgement or expongements from having to disclose this information on employment applications, applications for school, applications for professional licensure. There are very, very few exceptions, and these are ALL limited to Level 3 security clearance or higher with the Federal Government jobs, but NEVER on a routine job search. Even still, you don't have to disclose this on initial application.

    There is no such thing as a record that is thrown away or "tossed out". There is an order by the judge that is sent through the entire state for "non-disclosure".

    Since your question is about a juvenile conviction, you were already advised by the court system on how this will affect your future record.

    Even if you had MURDERED someone as a juvenile, if it was 100% handled by the juvenile court, you are under no legal obligation to disclose it nor can any state application require you to. If someone that knew about it "tattled", state laws bar the board from seeking any remedy such as revoking a license, because you did not lie on your application, the law gave you permission on WHAT YOU WERE REQUIRED TO DISCLOSE.
    Unless you are an attorney, you should not be dispensing legal advice.
  8. by   MB37
    I had a DUI before I was even 21 - but was an adult. It was expunged as a first offense b/c I pled no contest and have not been arrested since. This was in Louisiana. My application to LSU nursing school required that we divulge all arrests, convictions, and no contest pleas, even if they have been expunged, except traffic citations and juvenile offenses. I disclosed, submitted proper paperwork, and was accepted. I asked someone at the school for advice, and she told me that most single offenses won't keep you out, nor will really old crimes most of the time, but that failing to disclose something that comes up on your background check will get you expelled from the school. I don't know if it's legal to ask for expunged info, but the school said it was required. It might vary by state, but I don't know the law well.
  9. by   Lacie
    Quote from MMW37
    I had a DUI before I was even 21 - but was an adult. It was expunged as a first offense b/c I pled no contest and have not been arrested since. This was in Louisiana. My application to LSU nursing school required that we divulge all arrests, convictions, and no contest pleas, even if they have been expunged, except traffic citations and juvenile offenses. I disclosed, submitted proper paperwork, and was accepted. I asked someone at the school for advice, and she told me that most single offenses won't keep you out, nor will really old crimes most of the time, but that failing to disclose something that comes up on your background check will get you expelled from the school. I don't know if it's legal to ask for expunged info, but the school said it was required. It might vary by state, but I don't know the law well.
    Keep in mind the author of the thread was a "juvenile" at the time of the arrest therefore it is "sealed" and does not need to be divuldged to anyone for application to school or employment. The law applies differently if it had happened as an "adult" then you must divuldge any and all arrest whether convicted or not.
  10. by   BSNtobe2009
    Quote from MMW37
    I had a DUI before I was even 21 - but was an adult. It was expunged as a first offense b/c I pled no contest and have not been arrested since. This was in Louisiana. My application to LSU nursing school required that we divulge all arrests, convictions, and no contest pleas, even if they have been expunged, except traffic citations and juvenile offenses. I disclosed, submitted proper paperwork, and was accepted. I asked someone at the school for advice, and she told me that most single offenses won't keep you out, nor will really old crimes most of the time, but that failing to disclose something that comes up on your background check will get you expelled from the school. I don't know if it's legal to ask for expunged info, but the school said it was required. It might vary by state, but I don't know the law well.
    Legally, what you were told is incorrect, and you had a legal right not to disclose it at all. Even if someone snitched on you later, they legally could not dismiss you from the program b/c you did not have a criminal record under the law.

    As I said in an earlier post, it's a law, that take priority over any school policy or BON regulations.

    I firmly believe that your personal reputation in nursing is everything, and there is no reason to tarnish it when the justice system has given you a clean slate in which to start again. You have no idea what the school or the BON does with that information once they get it, when they have no right to have it to start with.
    Last edit by BSNtobe2009 on Nov 9, '06
  11. by   Sheri257
    Quote from BSNtobe2009
    No, you can't get into trouble for not disclosing it, that is the point and the purpose of my post.

    It is ILLEGAL for them to hold it against you because it is LEGALLY treated as a non-conviction.

    It doesn't matter what state, what board, the military, what job, nothing.
    I'm sorry but you are completely wrong about this, at least with other states.

    In California, just as an example, it doesn't matter if it was sealed, treated as a non-conviction ... whatever. It's considered PERJURY if you don't disclose it to the board.

    We just went through our licensing applications with our instructors. It's actually much, much worse if you don't disclose it. Our school goes through these situations with the board year after year. They know what they're talking about.

    They hammered on this point over and over: Even if you just went through rehab ... they tell you to disclose it. Because if you don't disclose it and the board finds it, and they will ... THEN you're in big, big trouble.

    People who aren't honest about their past actually have a bigger risk of not getting licensed than somebody who's committed murder and who was up front about it.

    As the old saying goes: honesty is the best policy.

    :typing
  12. by   BSNtobe2009
    Quote from lizz
    I'm sorry but you are completely wrong about this, at least with other states.

    In California, just as an example, it doesn't matter if it was sealed, treated as a non-conviction ... whatever. It's considered PERJURY if you don't disclose it to the board.

    We just went through our licensing applications with our instructors. It's actually much, much worse if you don't disclose it. Our school goes through these situations with the board year after year. They know what they're talking about.

    They hammered on this point over and over: Even if you just went through rehab ... they tell you to disclose it. Because if you don't disclose it and the board finds it, and they will ... THEN you're in big, big trouble.

    People who aren't honest about their past actually have a bigger risk of not getting licensed than somebody who's committed murder and who was up front about it.

    As the old saying goes: honesty is the best policy.

    :typing
    No, I'm not wrong about it, and it's not considered perjury, and no, this does not vary under a single state in the USA.

    I would highly encourage you to speak to an employment attorney and they will confirm what I have posted here.

    Rehab, is different, that is a drug problem and if your mental or physical health is in question that isn't protected under the law. Murder is ALWAYS a felony in all 50 states, and requires the governor to grant you a PARDON. If you get a pardon, guess what? You don't have to disclose you were convicted of murder to anyone anymore b/c that is what a pardon does: it voids the conviction and every right you had taken away from you as a convicted felon is restored to you.

    Again, it has nothing to do with honesty, it is what the LAW gives you the right to do.

    I would encourage you to look up how California views expungements and deferred adjudication or deferred judgement, and you will discover I am 150% correct.
    Last edit by BSNtobe2009 on Nov 9, '06
  13. by   Sheri257
    Quote from BSNtobe2009
    I would highly encourage you to speak to an employment attorney and they will confirm what I have posted here.
    It doesn't matter what an employment attorney says. It only matters what the board says. And the courts almost always side with the BRN in these situations.

    The director of my nursing program has a direct line into the BRN. She deals with these situations year after year. And she told us over and over: disclose it.

    If people want to take the risk and not disclose it ... go ahead. But don't be surprized if you don't get licensed and/or lose your license.

    :typing

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