Torn between Nursing and Medicine

Cinquefoil · Jan 29, 2011

I have known several nurses who went back to do the classes and either could not muster the grades or did not make it through the pre med classes let alone the MCAT. Getting A's in pre-med classes is very hard. Their are no dummies in the class so the competition is fierce. Nursing classes and nursing sciences are not academically demanding. They are perceived as hard due to the poor academic ability of the nursing students but these classes are not serious study of the science but rather a light survey of the bio, chem or microbiology, etc. .

I completely agree that nursing and med school classes are a whole different animal; and understand that you're not talking about me particularly when you talk about "poor academic ability". You're generalizing based on your own personal experience.

However, just to show that some nurses are intellectually capable of pre-med classes, but choose not to take them, my prerequisites for nursing were shared by dozens of pre-med students all ferociously vying for their "A"'s.....yet who was first in class in A&P? For two of the terms, it was a nursing student. (On the third term this person fell to third by using more time to tutor classmates) :nurse: Hahah! Go nursing brainiacs!

Ayeloflo · Jan 29, 2011

Let me ask you a question and be honest with yourself. Can you get A in the pre-med classes.

O-chem and Biochem are premed. Many nurses have to take them for BSN.

Okay you are kidding, right? Are you implying that people go into nursing cos they were not capable of scoring A's in premed classes??? Somebody who has on-stage theater experience is likely to memorise stuff in Anatomy class faster that the other person who is having learn the skill of massive memorization

If you don't have a good grasp of Algebra, Logarithms, Calculus, you will struggle with Physics and Chemistry. Trust me. Unless you wonna put in the extra time to do emergency brush-up on the Math topics that you are lacking, concurrently!

Some nurses majored in Physics, or chemistry and they were honor students, before they decided to switch careers into nursing for job security. Some people have bachelor's in music, or theater and decided to study premed courses to get into nursing school.

If you don't enjoy what you are studying, chances are, you will tune the instructor out during lessons, you will not do your homework well, you will not study much and you will fail your classes. If you are a visual learner, you should get your hands on similar textbooks that have CDROM. I learn better with those and by attend lectures, watching the instructor, hearing his/her voice echoing in my head.

For some students, they need a little more time to absorb the material as a slower pace. Some have family issue, financial worries, adjustment of personal qualities in order fulfill their academic demands. Many nurses are scoring high marks on MCAT these days. Pharmacology is not gonna be new to them if they chose to enter medical school. There is the advantage of working knowledge.

An nurse who works with EKG rythmns will grasp that much faster at med school. What about the nurse who works in OR.

Some take massive student loans so that can have time to keep up with the study and not be distracted by financial worries.

In nursing school, many students struggle as well. Program starts with 70 students and only 18 are able to graduate and take the NCLEX. What do you think is going on?

ImThatGuy, BSN, RN · Jan 29, 2011

O-chem and Biochem are premed. Many nurses have to take them for BSN.
Okay you are kidding, right? Are you implying that people go into nursing cos they were not capable of scoring A's in premed classes??? Somebody who has on-stage theater experience is likely to memorise stuff in Anatomy class faster that the other person who is having learn the skill of massive memorization
If you don't have a good grasp of Algebra, Logarithms, Calculus, you will struggle with Physics and Chemistry. Trust me. Unless you wonna put in the extra time to do emergency brush-up on the Math topics that you are lacking, concurrently!
Some nurses majored in Physics, or chemistry and they were honor students, before they decided to switch careers into nursing for job security. Some people have bachelor's in music, or theater and decided to study premed courses to get into nursing school.
If you don't enjoy what you are studying, chances are, you will tune the instructor out during lessons, you will not do your homework well, you will not study much and you will fail your classes. If you are a visual learner, you should get your hands on similar textbooks that have CDROM. I learn better with those and by attend lectures, watching the instructor, hearing his/her voice echoing in my head.
For some students, they need a little more time to absorb the material as a slower pace. Some have family issue, financial worries, adjustment of personal qualities in order fulfill their academic demands. Many nurses are scoring high marks on MCAT these days. Pharmacology is not gonna be new to them if they chose to enter medical school. There is the advantage of working knowledge.
An nurse who works with EKG rythmns will grasp that much faster at med school. What about the nurse who works in OR.
Some take massive student loans so that can have time to keep up with the study and not be distracted by financial worries.
In nursing school, many students struggle as well. Program starts with 70 students and only 18 are able to graduate and take the NCLEX. What do you think is going on?

I think most medical school graduates will tell you that the hardest part was getting in. The curriclum isn't that challenging - they say. It's the volume.

Sehille4774 · Jan 29, 2011

I have heard that Med School is ok with BSN as your undergrad degree because you already have experience in patient care.

I think that is an interesting way to go. You would have the unique experience of truly understanding the caregiver role to bring into your MD practice.

Not to mention you have a way to get easy income while in Med school.

When you are the Doctor...you can choose how to run your practice....their is no reason that you cant incorporate more direct patient care into your practice..you could even be creating a new type of specialty or service..I would imagine would be useful especially in rural and undeserved areas.

Personally i think someone could create a niche market for themselves many ways. For instance if they would do home visits as a MD or NP, their are many people, even within urban or suburban areas that for whatever reason, need a doctor but it would be very difficult to travel. Might be that they dont have transportation. Or, for example, The kinds of kids im currently taking care of as a RN, are stable but on ventilators..require 2 trained caregivers for travel, have a ton of equipment to transport, frequently require special transportation services, which take time to schedule, and then they need to wait even longer to get an appointment because they have to go to specialists which usually are not local....So by the time they are seen by a DR, what might have been only a little problem gets alot worse or they end up in the hospital..many times the parents have to miss work because these types of cases have all kinds of specialists they have to see..and for that reason, the parents (being in control of the medical decisions) FREQUENTLY will stall and stall to see if the condition gets better rather then taking a proactive approach (these are complicated cases afterall) IE It would be so much easier for minor issues like a leaky Gtube site or earache to have access DR that could just go to them in their home for a 30 minutes visit!! Im sure this story is true of many other patient demographics such as the elderly/oncology, ect.

Anyway to answer you question, I think if you are a young person, and intellect is not an issue, money is not an issue, then why no go for it? I would think many NP's could have been a MD but didnt want to spend the time/money, like myself. Personally, Im looking at Physician Assistant, similar to NP at the masters level, but you can go into any specialty with just the one degree, where as NP you are limited to one specific specialty, and you would have to go back to school again if you wanted to switch.

Have fun with it..many people only dream to do what you are doing!!!

God Bless!

DNS on the go · Jan 30, 2011

Nursing is very different from medicine. Physicians are educated to have a broad and comprehensive knowledge of the sciences.

Nursing is a human service with the focus on caring and providing custodial care. Physicians are trained in research and advancing the profession of medicine. All physicians have the same background (3-4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, clerkship, internship, residency) and passing 4 national boards. Most physicians have much more training, master's and Ph.D's, fellowship and sub speciality residency, etc, etc.

The vast majority of nurses are educated at the associate or bachelors level. Graduate work in nursing is non rigorous as is undergraduate nursing education.

The goal of the training of a nurse and a doctor are totally different.

My advice to this young lady is go for the prize, medicine. If you do not make it, nursing is there. That is why I ask, do you have the ability to get A's in the pre med classes and do well on the MCAT.

As I stated above, I have worked with many nurses who thought they could do it ( get into medical school) and they were shocked to find out that the real Bio and the real chem required for medical school are not like the A&P for nurses or introduction to chem we took to get our BSN.

Please do not think I am putting down nursing and nurses, but I have been around (maybe too long) and know what is going on.

Additionally, I was a nursing lecturer at a major university. I can tell you that the caliber of the nursing students related to the other students at the university was shocking. The nursing students were so poorly prepared for college level work, that the nursing students were steered away from the general education classes that the rest of the student body took, with classes in english and psy etc set up for the school of nursin sort of like the way colleges have seperate sciences for nurses.

Within the university's, their was a serious debate on how to address the poor academic preparation and ability of nursing students , education majors and other related majors. As I said, this is a major univeristy that prided itself as an elite university. It has many elite schools with the best of the best but the nursing school was not part of that best of the best.

I have also taught at a major regional (level 2) university and at a local cc. Students who are studying nursing have serious academic issues. While their were a few who was not deficient, the vast majority had serious academic issues (english, writing and unfortunately some had basic communication issues).

In my tenure in nursing, the profession has changed and not for the better. As the workforce has opened up for woman, high caliber woman do not see nursing as a career of choice. You might not remember or you may not have alive, but woman were systematically excluded from the prestigious careers irregardless of the females ability. Their was a time if you were a woman you were segregated to nursing, teaching or the typing pool. Sad but true. In those days, high caliber woman were carrying bed pans and turning and positioning old ladies. The world is different now and nursing as a career when so much is open to you just does not make it today.

As a nursing teacher and as a chief nurse, I must tell you to really look at who is entering nursing. The last batch of nurses who graduated in the late 60's and early 70's is entering the end of there careers, the nurses that have entered the profession since the mid 70's is significantly poorer in quality and ability.

I remember in the 80's the physicians openly discussing the poor quality of the new nurses. Nursing has responded by importing experienced nurses but the reality of nursing has not gotten better.

Nursing is a noble profession and my lifes work but it has declined due to the poor quality of people going into nursing. The reasons are numerous and too many to discuss here.

As I said before, I encourage thsi bright young lady to go for the prize, medicine.

PetiteOpRN · Jan 30, 2011

Have you really looked into the quality of life for each career?

My father is a neurosurgeon and he loves his job. He is very successful and can't imagine doing anything else. At the same time, I didn't really see much of him until I graduated from nursing school and started helping him out in clinic PRN.

I knew I could be a great doctor, but I wouldn't be satisfied with just being a good doctor. That would mean sacrificing having a family (or being part of any future family). That is why I chose nursing over medicine.

Good luck, it's a tough choice.

pedicurn, LPN, RN · Jan 30, 2011

Now if I were a 17 yr old ( who was already in college and presumably capable of getting straight A's and A +; and OK with large time commitment and funding requirement) who posed this question....

I would hope that I would have the foresight to choose medicine ( and the best MD program I could get into) instead of nursing.

Many doctors are capable of taking a caring and holistic approach to p't care.

Please don't let anyone tell you that only nurses are good at this.

I would go for the surgical option ... however just be sure you are familiar with the hours trauma surgeons do.

Go for your dream

pedicurn, LPN, RN · Jan 30, 2011

Nursing is very different from medicine. Physicians are educated to have a broad and comprehensive knowledge of the sciences.
Nursing is a human service with the focus on caring and providing custodial care. Physicians are trained in research and advancing the profession of medicine. All physicians have the same background (3-4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, clerkship, internship, residency) and passing 4 national boards. Most physicians have much more training, master's and Ph.D's, fellowship and sub speciality residency, etc, etc.
The vast majority of nurses are educated at the associate or bachelors level. Graduate work in nursing is non rigorous as is undergraduate nursing education.
The goal of the training of a nurse and a doctor are totally different.
My advice to this young lady is go for the prize, medicine. If you do not make it, nursing is there. That is why I ask, do you have the ability to get A's in the pre med classes and do well on the MCAT.
As I stated above, I have worked with many nurses who thought they could do it ( get into medical school) and they were shocked to find out that the real Bio and the real chem required for medical school are not like the A&P for nurses or introduction to chem we took to get our BSN.
Please do not think I am putting down nursing and nurses, but I have been around (maybe too long) and know what is going on.
Additionally, I was a nursing lecturer at a major university. I can tell you that the caliber of the nursing students related to the other students at the university was shocking. The nursing students were so poorly prepared for college level work, that the nursing students were steered away from the general education classes that the rest of the student body took, with classes in english and psy etc set up for the school of nursin sort of like the way colleges have seperate sciences for nurses.
Within the university's, their was a serious debate on how to address the poor academic preparation and ability of nursing students , education majors and other related majors. As I said, this is a major univeristy that prided itself as an elite university. It has many elite schools with the best of the best but the nursing school was not part of that best of the best.
I have also taught at a major regional (level 2) university and at a local cc. Students who are studying nursing have serious academic issues. While their were a few who was not deficient, the vast majority had serious academic issues (english, writing and unfortunately some had basic communication issues).
In my tenure in nursing, the profession has changed and not for the better. As the workforce has opened up for woman, high caliber woman do not see nursing as a career of choice. You might not remember or you may not have alive, but woman were systematically excluded from the prestigious careers irregardless of the females ability. Their was a time if you were a woman you were segregated to nursing, teaching or the typing pool. Sad but true. In those days, high caliber woman were carrying bed pans and turning and positioning old ladies. The world is different now and nursing as a career when so much is open to you just does not make it today.
As a nursing teacher and as a chief nurse, I must tell you to really look at who is entering nursing. The last batch of nurses who graduated in the late 60's and early 70's is entering the end of there careers, the nurses that have entered the profession since the mid 70's is significantly poorer in quality and ability.
I remember in the 80's the physicians openly discussing the poor quality of the new nurses. Nursing has responded by importing experienced nurses but the reality of nursing has not gotten better.
Nursing is a noble profession and my lifes work but it has declined due to the poor quality of people going into nursing. The reasons are numerous and too many to discuss here.
As I said before, I encourage thsi bright young lady to go for the prize, medicine.

Brilliant post !!!

I lament the lower academic quality of nursing education.

Many of the older nurses who trained in the 1950's and 1960's were (are) highly intelligent and professionally capable.

I note their children are often doctors.

I have the sense that if these nurses were born a generation later .... then they would have chosen medicine, instead of nursing.

Ayeloflo · Jan 30, 2011

The goal of the training of a nurse and a doctor are totally different.

Yeah, the goal remains on paper if you are coming from a trainer's standpoint. My goal was to pass NCLEX, get a job and pay my bills. And I have achieved it. The one who is studying is the one who knows what his/her goal is.

If you do not make it, nursing is there. That is why I ask, do you have the ability to get A's in the pre med classes and do well on the MCAT.

Not all schools require MCAT. Not all colleges require SAT's You don't get a free RN license for dropping out of med school. What do you mean by "ability"? A king is born to be king. A queen is born to be a queen. Everything else outside of these, you have to work for it.

As I stated above, I have worked with many nurses who thought they could do it ( get into medical school) and they were shocked to find out that the real Bio and the real chem required for medical school are not like the A&P for nurses or introduction to chem we took to get our BSN.

What do you mean by "real Bio and the real chem?" Let me tell you this: You need to understand that 1+1=2, and not 11, in order to understand why 1+1+1+1=3, not 111. If the "real" Chemistry required is Chem240 for example (or whatever the course ID is), don't you think you have to master Chem 101, build on your knowledge with the next Chem class, until you are ready to handle Chem240 or the "real Chem" that is required for med school? Why do you think the classes have prerequisites? Even before you take Chem101 (General Chem), you need to be up to speed with Intermediate Algebra, Geomety, etc., otherwise you will have a tough time graspingTetrahedrons in General Chemistry, and you will for sure complain that it's very hard. If Genetics is very hard, then what bio course should you have studied in order to better prepare you for Genetics class? That is why academic advisors can help students to plan their classes in order to achieve their goals

Additionally, I was a nursing lecturer at a major university. I can tell you that the caliber of the nursing students related to the other students at the university was shocking. The nursing students were so poorly prepared for college level work, that the nursing students were steered away from the general education classes that the rest of the student body took, with classes in english and psy etc set up for the school of nursin sort of like the way colleges have seperate sciences for nurses.

Give it a few more years, and if nursing profession continues to guanrantee a better job security and decent wage, your survey will show that more people have Bachelor's degree in different fields of study like Computer Science, Education, etc., and are entering nursing to earn a second college degree. At that point, I'm sure your understanding of "caliber" will take on a new meaning :)

Within the university's, their was a serious debate on how to address the poor academic preparation and ability of nursing students , education majors and other related majors.

What date did the debate happen? Did the debate make it into any of the school's publications? I wonder if the school has a library. Hmmm. The purspose of a school is to teach, not to attract the "best" cos the best do not need to be students in the first place. If the candidates are already the best in their field of choice, they should be admitted to the school to take professor jobs :)

As I said, this is a major univeristy that prided itself as an elite university. It has many elite schools with the best of the best but the nursing school was not part of that best of the best.

Too bad the school does not have a name :)

I have also taught at a major regional (level 2) university and at a local cc. Students who are studying nursing have serious academic issues.

While their were a few who was not deficient, the vast majority had serious academic issues (english, writing and unfortunately some had basic communication issues).

Did you actually teach at a University? Your way of writing is highly questionable.

So they allowed prospective nursing majors to get a waiver for the requirement for High School graduation, just because they were interested in Nursing or did those prospective nursing students have to take High School classes and pass so as to earn High School diploma? If the university you are talking about has no such requirement for the completion of a High School education, or it's equivalence, then my next question is, is the university accredited for real?

In my tenure in nursing, the profession has changed and not for the better. As the workforce has opened up for woman, high caliber woman do not see nursing as a career of choice. You might not remember or you may not have alive, but woman were systematically excluded from the prestigious careers irregardless of the females ability. Their was a time if you were a woman you were segregated to nursing, teaching or the typing pool. Sad but true. In those days, high caliber woman were carrying bed pans and turning and positioning old ladies. The world is different now and nursing as a career when so much is open to you just does not make it today.

As a nursing teacher and as a chief nurse, I must tell you to really look at who is entering nursing. The last batch of nurses who graduated in the late 60's and early 70's is entering the end of there careers, the nurses that have entered the profession since the mid 70's is significantly poorer in quality and ability.

I remember in the 80's the physicians openly discussing the poor quality of the new nurses. Nursing has responded by importing experienced nurses but the reality of nursing has not gotten better.

What change would you like to see? Do you want to see nurses answering the call lights in exactly one second? I want to meet that caliber of a nurse. When I am able to witness that speed of answering a call light, I'll let you know what a huge advancement it is, in the field of nursing

Nursing is a noble profession and my lifes work but it has declined due to the poor quality of people going into nursing. The reasons are numerous and too many to discuss here.

Start with one, and after that, tell me the next reason, bit by bit :)

As I said before, I encourage thsi bright young lady to go for the prize, medicine.

allnurses Guide · Jan 30, 2011

OK guys, lets stop the bickering please and get back to helping the OP.

I'm removing posts that are not helpful, I've not sent you a PM but it you can't find it you know what's happened to it.

If you feel that you can't stop bickering please bypass this thread completely.

cindyq · Jan 30, 2011

Hello there I have my BS in Bioloogy and am currently in medical school I am in my first semester and hate this school. They do not teach here. I am in a caribbean school. I am really thinking of becoming an NP or getting into the DNP program. I am so confused but so misrable here. Can you give me any advice. I want to stay in the medical feild but I dont know if medical school is for me anymore.

ImThatGuy, BSN, RN · Jan 30, 2011

Hello there I have my BS in Bioloogy and am currently in medical school I am in my first semester and hate this school. They do not teach here. I am in a caribbean school. I am really thinking of becoming an NP or getting into the DNP program. I am so confused but so misrable here. Can you give me any advice. I want to stay in the medical feild but I dont know if medical school is for me anymore.

Try a medical school inside the United States next time.