Only if you are not in it for the money - page 2

CE, Your post was truly heartfelt. How unselfish you must be...Tell me though, you say that when you went into nursing school it was not for the monetary benefits, is it still that way now? Or do... Read More

  1. by   JillR
    It is hard to take care of others if we don't take care of ourselves. Making a decent living is part of taking care of ourselves.

    Wanting and expecting a decent pay check is not equal to only going into nursing for the money.

    If this were the case, there would be much less nurses out there willing to do this job than there are at this time.

    I enjoy taking care of my patients. I do expect to be adequately compensated for the time and effort I put into my career.

    I thank god that there are people like nurse dude and oramar out there to speak up of the atrocities that go on in nursing. If not for vocal people like them, we would still be wearing maid uniforms with the nursing cap. Now that nursing has come into the 19th century, it is time that we continue to progress.

    I find it very troubling that some nurses think that it is not okay to expect fair pay, no mandatory OT, and respect. This should be a given, but we are still held back because of the martyr types out there that think it is a sin to expect these things.

    I repeat wanting and expecting fair wages and decent working conditions is NOT equal to going into nursing just for the money.

    It is because of the co-dependant what would the patient do without me attitude that allows people to convice themselves to cross picket lines, accept unsafe assignments, and accept unfair wages and mandatory OT, that continues to keep nursing in the dark ages.

    I fight for these thing because I care about my patients, not instead of caring for my patients.

    If we did not care about patient safety and quality of care, why would we bother? It would be much easier to get that $17.00 per hour stock clerk job at the piggly wiggly, and bury our heads in the sand.


  2. by   lita1857
    For Doey and nursedude, I couldn't have said it any better. Now for ceworden and others "caring for others" I suppose MD's don't "care" about the patient? and while they practice medicine and we practice nursing (process)only they can be compensated for their skills? That MD/AMA unity is reflective of educated professional's standing together, most people do not see anything wrong in compensating educated professionals for their knowledge and skills. My question is, doesn't nursing posses any of this? I for one with the world series in alot of people's minds like to use the comparison to a baseball team versus the "healthcare team" substitute MD/pitcher, players/nurse, catcher/resp. therapist etc. you get the picture...which one shouldn't be paid well?
  3. by   Tiara
    Whether it's right or wrong, unfortunately, in our society money=respect. While you may think (and I did) that nurses were admired for their dedication and ability to knock themselves out for their patients 24/7, the truth is they have been treated in a patronizing, be a good girl and be quiet manner. We have had our consciences raised and now we are speaking up. Nursing is a very important component of healthcare whether you read it in the Press or not, but it's not on the big business agenda. Why not? Because we have been kept in our place.
  4. by   Mijourney
    Hi ceworden. I'm glad that you are in the nursing profession. Your post indicates that you are in your niche right now. I think that many nurses went into nursing with a sense of duty or calling. I did. This is very important for our patients. This brings to mind the televised memorial of the murdered naval soldiers from the U.S. Cole. I listened intently to some of the dignitaries speak. It was mentioned that the survivors would give the soldiers' lives their meaning. I believe that nursing can be what we in the profession make of it. I think each individual nurse decides on the wholesomeness of his/her agenda. However, I will agree with oramar's post. Times have changed. We want to preserve our sense of duty, but we also want reasonable support for our sacrifices. I know those in the military have been expressing that alot lately.
  5. by   nursedude
    Well,

    It appears as if I have ruffled a few more nurse's feathers...Or maybe I am causing good old Florence to turn over in her grave...

    Well, personally and Professionally I don't care. I will stick to my guns and will not budge....Nurses are underpaid, ultimately, PATIENT'S WILL SUFFER BECAUSE NURSES ARE NOT BEING PAID ENOUGH $$$$$!

    Go to the homepage- www.allnurses.com and you'll see this headline: Westmoreland County approves nursing home pay package.

    And if you follow the link it will take you here...
    http://www.post-gazette.com/neigh_we...1013westy5.asp

    Here is the article:

    Westmoreland County approves nursing home pay package

    Friday, October 13, 2000

    By Ernie Hoffman, Post-Gazette Staff Writer


    Westmoreland County officials yesterday approved a new pay package for some employees at the county nursing home.

    The package, which will pay some Westmoreland Manor employees a bonus if they show up for work as scheduled, failed to pass the county Salary Board two weeks ago on a 2-2 vote.

    But yesterday, Commissioner Tom Ceraso, who voted against the proposal the first time, joined with Commissioners Tom Balya and P. Scott Conner to provide the three votes necessary for passage.

    Administrator Margaret C. Harper said the bonus plus a raise for some other workers were necessary to keep Westmoreland Manor competitive with private nursing homes and to help attract workers for the 4-to-midnight shift.

    The new package will pay a $75 bonus to workers on the 4-to-midnight shift for each month that they come to work every day as scheduled.

    Also, charge nurses who work overlapping shifts will receive an 85-cent hourly pay increase.

    Both are retroactive to Oct. 1.

    Ceraso said he changed his vote because the other members of the board had agreed to a new policy under which the salary board will meet just once a year -- in January -- except for emergencies.

    When he voted against the package, Ceraso said it was because it violated the board's policy against mid-term pay increases.

    Controller Jeff Pavetti, who opposed the package two weeks ago, voted against it again yesterday.


    Now CE, if you read the article carefully, You might notice that the Westmoreland County officials for some reason or another haD to offer their employees(nurses) a freaking bonus in order to get them to show up on time for work!!!

    So tell me CE, in one of your replies to me you claim that because I feel that nurses deserve to be paid more, that somehow I am causing them harm??? "SO WHY CAUSE THEM HARM BY JUST GIVING THEM WHAT YOU ARE PAID INSTEAD OF WHAT YOU KNOW. I DO BELIEVE THAT PART OF THE NURSING CODE IS TO DO NO HARM TO YOUR PATIENT!!!!!!"

    But if you read the above article(carefully) You might see CE that for some reason the county officials have had to offer a MONETARY BONU$ in order to get the nurses to come to work, thereby, keeping their patients safe...So, CE, in other words. Paying the nurses MONEY(and more of it) for some unknown reason, seems to cause the nurses to come to work -on time...What a concept! Some genius came up with a novel idea!!! Wouldn't you agree? "Lets pay the nurses and maybe they'll come to work..."


    And then CE, you claim that I am not practicing the true profession of nursing "In response to your remark about one gets what one pays for:
    IF YOU BELIEVE THAT THEN YOU ARE NOT PRACTICING THE TRUE PROFESSION OF NURSING!!!"
    CE, if I am not mistaken, you don't even work as a nurse: "For your information at the present time I am unable to work due to a disability I suffered by working"...Instead, You ***VOLUNTEER*** "However I do volunteer for various locations".

    CE, let me get this straight, you are not employed as a nurse, yet you claim to be practicing the PROFESSION or nursing: "This is done without monetary compensation. It is done because I love my profession and even though I am unable to work at the present time, I believe in helping people anyway I can." I agree, helping people is a good thing however; Helping people without getting paid is not a profession- it's called VOLUNTEERING your nursing skills.


    I guess that's why the officials in Westmoreland county had to offer a bonus to their nurses- they didn't want to volunteer???

    Again, I am not writing this to offend or hurt you CE- I don't even know you. BUT, when nurses such as yourself claim that the PROFESSION OF NURSING is one that should be based upon a spirit of volunteerism then I take OFFENSE(as a professional nurse). I firmly believe that until the profession of nursing rids itself of that attitude, then nurses will continue to recieve a "volunteer's wage" and therefore, PATIENT's care will suffer as a result(as pointed out in the above article. IE: don't pay the nurses and nobody shows up for work.)

    CE, it really is nice that you volunteer. However, the "Profession of nursing" is not the same as "Volunteering your nursing skills"...


    Oh yeah, one last point...You said "...please stop giving the Nurse's that love the profession for it's many rewards, not monetary gain a hard time." I say: "Nurses deserve much more. Nursing is a profession. Volunteering is not. Lets pay the professionals and let's allow the volunteers to volunteer."

    If you want to volunteer CE, go ahead but I had to pay for my nursing education, I have to pay for my nursing license, unfortunately someone has to pay for me in order to use those skills...(Just like they pay the doctors- or maybe they(doctors) should do what they do on our salaries- or better yet- volunteer! I wonder how many doctors there would be if that were the case?)
  6. by   nursedude
    This link is for the nurses who volunteered for the Red Cross:
    http://www.allnurses.com/news/jump.cgi?ID=337


    I found the link on the www.allnurses.com homepage...


  7. by   Miss Mollie
    I will admit, I almost died laughing when I first read this post. Do you really think CE that there are a lot of people going into nursing for the excellent Monetary benefits? We are in the middle of yet another nursing shortage, caused in part by low wages and bad working conditions.
    A question- how is being a volunteer connected with nursing? I volunteer for the YMCA- but not because I am a nurse. I also volunteer for a free clinic- because I am a nurse and concerned about health care for the indigent.
    Your statement about jumping in a heartbeat without any concern about money (or anything else it appears...) does not reflect "nursing" It reflects a personality trait common to many nurses- that of Marytr. That really isn't healthy.
    I'm with Julie- I enjoy caring for and helping people (I work Trauma ICU) and I enjoy having a roof over my head...
  8. by   nursedude
    Mona,

    Do you know of any advocates out there who advocate for free?

    Also, if you have read any of my other posts you would see that I no longer work as a nurse...Only PRN in an ER near my home(very PRN).

    Also, I am the owner of a patient advocacy business- I started the business a couple of years ago. We seek reimbursement for patients and their families from HMO's and hospitals... Guess what Mona, we don't do that for free... It would be really really nice to offer our services for free but niether myself or any of my partners can afford to...
  9. by   pickledpepperRN
    Originally posted by nursedude:
    This link is for the nurses who volunteered for the Red Cross:
    http://www.allnurses.com/news/jump.cgi?ID=337
    I do volunteer for the Red Cross but only bake cookies, staff the cantina, and give blood. I was offered 8 CEUs by the Red Cross to take a class so I could later volunteer to be THE nurse for blood banking. Answer,"NO!"
    I think they should pay the executive director what a nurse makes. Perhaps in a disaster but then my own hospital will need me too. (& pay).
    I am NOT a lazy uncaring nurse. It is a balance. My Mom used to say,"We all think we've hit the happy medium."

    I found the link on the www.allnurses.com homepage...



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  10. by   Doey
    To lita1857, Tiara, Miss Mollie, and of course nursedude and anyone else who feels the same, thanks for being out there.

    It's interesting that as posted before in this bb the words "martyr" and "codependent" come up frequently when speaking of nursing.

    "It is because of the co-dependent what would the patient do without me attitude that allows people to convice themselves to cross picket lines, accept unsafe assignments, and accept unfair wages and mandatory OT, that continues to keep nursing in the dark ages."

    "It reflects a personality trait common to many nurses- that of Marytr. That really isn't healthy."

    I think it's time for some to do a little introspection and find out why it is necessary to hold onto their martyrism and codepedence. (to the detriment of themselves as well as the profession of nursing).

  11. by   Mijourney
    Hello everyone. I think that ceworden's posts reflect a totally different perspective on what nursing practice is all about. In my opinion he/she's talking about apples while some of us are talking about oranges. I don't feel the terms "martyr" and "codependent" are supported by what ce has posted. The use of those terms just reflect frustration by nurses who are not getting all their needs met in nursing and feel that nurses who express any inkling of satisfaction with nursing are out of sync. I think the point is that this nurse is simply content with what she does and enjoys it so much, he/she is willing to do it for free. If he/she can afford to do nursing for free and has not filed for bankruptcy because of it, I don't see it as a problem. Many nurses don't look at the business side of nursing. I think that if all nurses looked only at the fact that our wages/salaries were below the rate of inflation and took on a negative reactive attitude every time they went to work, then absolutely no one would be in nursing practice along with other lines of work. Perhaps that is the idea here? If you want to apply the terms "martyr" and "codependent" to people who are passionate about their jobs or work, then you might as well take a top to bottom approach. Hospitals and their administration overly exploit nursing labor for large profit. They also tout that they have the resources to save lives. Would you label that as martyrism and codependency? I frequently read about nurses that choose to work outside of the realm of paid employment who find contentment in what they do. Since I utilize my nursing skills and knowledge for paid employment, yes, I expect to get enough compensation from my sacrifice to live comfortably. If not, then maybe I should take ce's advice and get out of nursing and consider becoming a physician.

    [This message has been edited by Mijourney (edited October 23, 2000).]
  12. by   ceworden
    When I posted this topic it was only to reflect that the nursing field is not a "lucrative business" in monetary ways. I have know several co-workers who were under the impression that by being a nurse they would make a lot of money. I wanted to express to those considering this field for that reason to re-think before going into the field of Nursing.
    I also paid for my education and continue to pay to stay updated on new advances in the Medical field. I also keep my license current even though at the present time I am unable to work a full or part-time paying job do to my current disability. I consider myself lucky that I am able to do some volunteer work in LTC & SNF, even if all I do is help feed those who can not do this for themself, assist them to the bathroom, read to them, talk to them, etc. I was taught that this is part of the patients basic needs that need to be taken care of.
    Some nurse's do think that doing that is considering CNA work. Well, I have never asked a co-worker to do anything that I would not do myself, even if it is to "mop the floor" after a patient was incontinent.
    There was also a post regarding nurse's that volunteer with the Red Cross. My name is not on that list because when I was injured I had myself removed knowing that I was at the time unable to provide what they would need.
    I am hoping that soon I will be able to go back on the list with pride!
    I am also able to help current nursing students with their studing and giving them encouragement when needed. I see nothing wrong with helping a future co-worker studying for those "Mid-Terms" that can be so overwelming or helping them to "memorize" the many, many drugs, blood values, etc. that is needed to know for the test. It is easier when you are working because you are able to use info right in front of you unlike when you take a test and have to "know them" without any charts to follow.
    I am well aware of the nursing shortage, patient overload, low pay, etc. that has become a crisis to our field.
    Before I posted this topic, I did read the other post. I spent aprox 3 days reading the many topics on this subject. One that really caught my attention was the nurse that claimed the salary of $43,000.00 yearly income unfair. Well, where I am located we are lucky to be able to make 1/2 that amount yearly income. And from the other research I have done, most places have the same "cost of living" expenses.
    I hope to help bring to light the problems faced with our profession but I refuse to do it by attacking another fellow nurse for what he/she may believe. That is why I want to participate in the MNM next year to help our community and legislators become aware of
    the problems that we face. Our entire Medical system is in a crisis. To be able to make this work we must join forces instead of continuing to make "harsh judgements" against our fellow co-workers because of their beliefs.
    I have been laughed at, critized & made to feel inadequate at what I am doing. I take this very personally and it hurts to think that so many people take pride in attacking one's beliefs.
    I want to thank the few people who posted support and understanding for my belief on this topic. For the others I understand your point of view but why attack a fellow co-worker for how they view the nursing field.
    I do have a question for one of the people who posted on this topic: You said that I am not practicing the "Nursing Profession" by volunteering, however you state that you are no longer working as a Nurse? Therefore, why is what I do considered just "Volenteering" and what you do is considered practicing the "Nursing Profession"? Is it because I am not paid for what I do and you are? If this is the case then I quess the nurse's that go to the underdevoled areas of our world and use their skills for free are not really practicing the "Nursing Profession".

    ------------------
    C.E.Worden,LPN
  13. by   nursedude
    Well,

    I believe that Mijourney pointed out the "difference"...:"I think that ceworden's posts reflect a totally different perspective on what nursing practice is all about."

    Mi used the words "nursing practice"...

    In my opinion "nursing practice" and "nursing profession" are NOT the same....
    "Nursing practice" or the practice of nursing in and of itself is not necessarily a profession or career. However, if you scroll up to the top of this page, you will see that this thread "Only if you are not in it for the money" Falls under a string "Would you recomend nursing as a career?"... That string(would you recomend nursing as a career) DOES NOT read "would you recomend volunteering your nursing skills?"

    The reason I take issue with you CE, and others that feel that the PROFESSION of nursing should be based on the spirit of volunteerism is because that belief undermines the profession of nursing thereby undermining patient care...Sorry if anyone out there feels "hurt" by my statements or my direct confrontations but I feel that this (the spirit of volunteerism) is why the profession of nursing is experiencing a shortage...Even you CE, pointed out that you are aware of the state of nursing. Here is your statement: "I am well aware of the nursing shortage, patient overload, low pay, etc. that has become a crisis to our field."

    You used the words "CRISIS"..."PATIENT OVERLOAD"... "LOW PAY"...

    IF CE, you truly care about the needs of patients why then are you condoning the "CRISIS, PATIENT OVERLOAD and LOW PAY" that is causing the current "NURSING SHORTAGE"? By being willing to accept/condone/live with those things you are eliminating the number of nurses who cannot and are not able to volunteer their nursing skills.

    Do you understand me yet???

    I really love nursing. I love being an ER nurse. I truly enjoy helping people BUT I also have a family and they are my first priority... Unfortunately, I cannot meet my families needs by doing what I like to do the most (ie:nursing). I left the ER where I now work PRN- I used to work there full-time. I always had excellent reviews. The most I ever got in a raise with those excellent reviews was 4 or 5% increases in pay however, the cost of my medical/dental/vision benefits would also increase yearly and for the past few years as a nurse the increase in my benefits eclipsed the 4 or 5% salary increase that I got...So even with a raise every year, my take home (net) pay was lower than the previous year... Even if I did not have a family!!! Guess what? I was not the only one that this was happening to! ALL of the other nurses I worked with complained of the same thing and many of them left as a result...

    So, guess what... Now as a result of that exodus the ER is usually short staffed... Guess who suffers as a result? Guess who waits in the waiting room for hours? Guess who vomits in a basin or suffers with abdominal pain in the waiting room because the flow of the ER has been slowed to a crawl because of the lack of manpower?


    Do you get my point?


    P.S. Sorry that you feel that I am attacking you. Love the sinner, hate the sin... I don't hate you.

    I think you best summed it up in your last sentence: "If this is the case then I quess the nurse's that go to the underdevoled areas of our world and use their skills for free are not really practicing the "Nursing Profession".

    Yes, you are correct, they are NOT practicing the nursing profession, they are practicing NURSING without pay. ***VOLUNTEERING*** their nursing skills.

    [This message has been edited by nursedude (edited October 24, 2000).]

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