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- I just meant that MDs and PAs diagnosis and treat without prior nursing experience, so shouldn't an NP program prepare an NP to diagnosis and treat without prior experience too?
- Dec 5, '12 by helloberryI see your point... The difference between doctors & nurses that I've always heard is that doctors treat the body & nurses treat the actual patient... I'm not sure that a prior nursing degree would be required to even go to school for NP if you were taught everything you needed to know in the program. Even after nursing school and all the thugs I learned, I've had to learn how to actually BE a nurse while working as a nurse... It stands to reason that being a NP would be similar.
- Dec 5, '12 by mclennanWow. LOL
I've worked with NPs for years in many different settings and EVERY. SINGLE. ONE started out cleaning up POOP! AND put in at least 3 to 5 years (some longer) working shifts on hospital floors in Med Surg. They all lived to tell about it, too.
If you search the forum you'll find many a new grad getting schooled hardcore by experienced nurses after they complained about POOP. I have 4 sets of letters after my name and 6 years experience and working on my Masters.....and I would jump right in and clean up POOP if it needed to be done. That's what nursing MEANS. And EVERY NP I know would do the same. Their understanding of nursing is what makes them successful NPs. They'd never leave a patient laying in their own POOP.
Most FNP programs are fiercely competitive and will require some experience in Med Surg - and yes, cleaning up POOP. Because that happens on units that are short CNAs and that happens in nursing, period. If I were on an admissions committee of a FNP program and read this -knowing you'd applied - I'd LOL and tell ya to come back when you've had experience and some understanding about what nursing means.
Sorry princess. And good luck.
- Here we go. I'm so sick of nurses that think every freakin nurse on the planet is required to clean up poop and other things that 99% of the population wouldn't even dream of doing. There are plenty of nurses that work OUTSIDE of med/surg - in clinics, radiology, etc. And I've even heard a nurse comment that she worked in radiology so she didn't have to deal with all the nasty stuff. Does that make her less of a nurse? No, nor does it make me less of one. I am allowed to not want to do something filthy and still further my education without the snide remarks of other nurses. Must this profession be so catty?
My point here is, PAs and NPs are both midlevels. They are educated in different models, but still function very similarly in a medical setting, hence why many jobs request a PA or NP for a particular position. In PA programs, all of the knowledge neccesary to be a PA is IN the program. They learn about medications, diseases, etc from their training in PA school. Is this NOT similar to NP school? Do NPs HAVE to work in a hospital to have the ability to be a good NP? Do NP programs themselves not teach the required information neccesary to diagnosis and treat without one having prior experience in a hospital?
I just want an honest answer here so I can plan accordingly. I know that in nursing, people seem to value someone willing to clean up poop over someone who is book smart - I think that's a little backwards once you get to the provider level. I am an extremely intelligent person, very booksmart, with a previous degree in Biology from Yale University. I entered an accelerted BSN program and graduated top of my class with a 4.0 and honors. I am very, very booksmart, and that's what we need in the NP world. As a patient, I would rather have a well-educated competent NP than one who tells me she happily cleaned up poop before becoming an NP. We are all different, and there is a place for all of us in the world of nursing. I have every right to be an NP, and while I may not be happy about cleaning up excrement, I think my intelligence will make up for that as a provider.Last edit by IcySageNurse on Dec 5, '12
- Dec 5, '12 by CrunchRNI wouldn't say you need to stick with acute care a long time. Just a couple of years so that:
1. you are competent handling emergencies & running a code as this happens in other settings also
2. you have a very good understanding of illness and how disease processes work from early to late stages
3. you have a good grasp on how to perform procedures because you will be expected to competently do this in the office as an NP
Office nursing mostly prepares you to do phone triage and manage a schedule of patients, but not the rest.
I see nothing wrong with you not wanting to clean poop forever, but I think the above 3 things are super important to learn before you leave acute care.
- CrunchRN - thank you for your response. What if in the office I was working closely with the FNP and helping her with some procedures that I wouldn't get to do in a hospital setting?
- Dec 5, '12 by Susie2310Gosh, I was shocked to read you use the word "demeaning" in regard to common nursing duties. Imagine a patient with severe diarrhea and sepsis for example. That very sick patient is relying on you to keep them clean and prevent skin breakdown along with administering fluid boluses and antibiotics and monitoring their BP etc. And you find giving that kind of care degrading and beneath you. If you don't want to provide basic nursing care and just want the prestige and status of a medical provider who generally doesn't clean up diarrhea, why did you go to nursing school? What kind of experience did you think you would bring to being a nurse practitioner? I don't mean to be harsh, as bedside nursing is not for everyone, but put yourself in a very sick patient's place, completely dependent on the care you give, and imagine how they would feel knowing you feel demeaned by helping clean up their diarrhea. If you don't care enough about your patients to be able to do this without feeling demeaned, will you care about your patients more as a NP? I personally don't want to receive care for myself or my family from a nurse or other provider who feels demeaned by providing basic care.
- Dec 5, '12 by mclennanIt's a running joke on this forum that many people come here asking for advice, and when they are told things they don't wanna hear, they predictably become defensive and angry. Way to keep the stereotype going. All the book smarts in the world can't teach character. Yano?
The best NPs I know have an equal balance of book smarts and background in POOP. What really matters is the ETHIC and VIRTUE that you need to demonstrate that you'd never, ever see any patient care, from cleaning POOP to using Euclidian Geometric Philosophy to project their ejection fraction or whatever - as "beneath" you or "icky." It's the CONCEPT, the IDEA that you'd apply such elitist thinking to someone lying there in their own diarrhea.....before you've even APPLIED to NP school that is going to get you in trouble. NPs are wonderful but they are NOT doctors and not PAs. Their training comes from a nursing perspective, that which you sorely lack. I also came into nursing with a bunch of academic trophies and medals and degrees and book smarts, blah blah who cares. That patient lying there in their own POOP doesn't give a flying fig about your Yale diploma. I can guarantee that.
- Dec 5, '12 by carakristin1Quote from IcySageNurseYeah, as a patient, I would like someone who did well in school and learned what they needed to help me. Good for you. As you pointed out, the program should prepare you with the knowledge you're going to need to competently perform the role of NP. You still need to be able to react to ALL of your patients with compassion and kindness. If they can tell you are disgusted or uncomfortable with some sight, smell, etc., all the intelligence in the world isn't going to make them feel safe or cared for with you.I just want an honest answer here so I can plan accordingly. I know that in nursing, people seem to value someone willing to clean up poop over someone who is book smart - I think that's a little backwards once you get to the provider level. I am an extremely intelligent person, very booksmart, with a previous degree in Biology from Yale University. I entered an accelerted BSN program and graduated top of my class with a 4.0 and honors. I am very, very booksmart, and that's what we need in the NP world. As a patient, I would rather have a well-educated competent NP than one who tells me she happily cleaned up poop before becoming an NP. We are all different, and there is a place for all of us in the world of nursing. I have every right to be an NP, and while I may not be happy about cleaning up excrement, I think my intelligence will make up for that as a provider.
Regardless of what you decide to do before entering the NP program, I hope you'll develop the ability to at least pretend gross things don't bother you, because they WILL NOT just go away in an office setting.