LPN. or RN - page 5
I recently relocated due to a nasty divorce, I have been trying to figure out which to do. LPN or BSN. I was waiting for the in-state tuition to kick in before I made a decision. (In Arkansas the... Read More
Feb 26, '12It's all BS. The fact that they continue to peddle that crap to unsuspecting people just strikes me as willful. Or they made up something new like they did with NANDA - "nursing research" Nursing research consists of people who want you to believe that a voluntary email survey of their own members actually tells you something other than complete garbage.
Getting a little deeper into it you find that they want to split the RN workforce into two tiers even after both have passed the NCLEX with a more limited scope and the title of "technical nurse" for ADNs and "professional nurse" for BSNs.
Since there is no proof of better outcomes they have come up with the most insulting things imaginable couched in the garbled jargon laden "nurse-speak". They use the phrase "ritualistic practices" and "rote memorizaiton" to claim a rationale for their agenda. I read yesterday they consider RN to BSN programs a hopefully temporary stopgap method of earning your BSN.
Feb 26, '12The sad thing is that BSN programs COULD produce vastly superior graduates if they WANTED to! They have almost double the time that ADN programs have, and they absolutely fail to produce graduates that are superior in clinical knowledge or skills. If they really wanted to, they could equip their students with the same level of education that you currently can receive only by going to NP school. The problem is that the "extra" courses in the BSN program that are "missing" from the ADN program are completely irrelevant to clinical nursing practice. Let me tell you, I'm soooooo impressed when a BSN nurse standing at the bedside whips out her notes from her Nursing Management, Statistics, Western Civ, or Music History class. The problem is that universities have no motivation to make the BSN courework more practical and relevant. Why would they when they can tell you that you'll need to come back for a masters and pay more tuition? The equal success that ADN grads have achieved proves the irrelevance of the extra BSN coursework.
Feb 26, '12New grad ADN here in California. I had a total of 3 job offers within 1 month of passing boards. 2 were in acute care (one was ER). I had LVN experience though. A lot of my classmates had job offers a few weeks after graduation too. Some of them had offers for ICU, ER, step-down, NICU, you-name-it. 85% of our last graduating class had jobs within 6 months after graduating. ADN grads CAN get hired, but it depends on the school's reputation, the applicant pool, the current need for the position, your ability to network and sell yourself, etc. There are a lot of variables, but ADN grads ARE getting hired. You just have to network network network.
I'm not convinced that BSN grads are better than ADN grads. I see a lot of students from a lot of different schools doing clinicals where I work, and there is no difference. If anything, I've noticed A LOT of the BSN students are younger and have less life experience. IT SHOWS. I hate to generalize though.
I'm now working as a new grad RN, and I'm set to start my BSN program next month. I WISH I finished my BSN right away, but it just wasn't financially feasible for me. Get your BSN out of the way if it's financially feasible.
Whatever you do, DO NOT attend one of those BSN programs with tuition that is > $60,000. If you can't find a job, you're STUCK paying all of that off. If you can't find a job with your ADN, you've lost a LOT less money.
Feb 27, '12Quote from AJPVYes - and a good deal of the problem results from nobody on the same page about what makes a BSN graduate so superior to the ADN. I guess that's bound to happen when there is no evidence in their evidence-based arguments that attempt to make their case. Sometimes it's strictly patient safety (ie bedside). That is normally the point you will be ceremoniously referred to the "landmark" work of Linda Aiken in 2003. Most of them have never actually read it. I do so wish they would.The sad thing is that BSN programs COULD produce vastly superior graduates if they WANTED to! They have almost double the time that ADN programs have, and they absolutely fail to produce graduates that are superior in clinical knowledge or skills. If they really wanted to, they could equip their students with the same level of education that you currently can receive only by going to NP school. The problem is that the "extra" courses in the BSN program that are "missing" from the ADN program are completely irrelevant to clinical nursing practice. Let me tell you, I'm soooooo impressed when a BSN nurse standing at the bedside whips out her notes from her Nursing Management, Statistics, Western Civ, or Music History class. The problem is that universities have no motivation to make the BSN courework more practical and relevant. Why would they when they can tell you that you'll need to come back for a masters and pay more tuition? The equal success that ADN grads have achieved proves the irrelevance of the extra BSN coursework.
Some state the extra time is essential because it "introduces students to a wider range of competencies in such arenas as health policy and health care financing, community and public health, leadership, quality improvement, and systems thinking" I wonder if that BSN person who thought a "veteran nurse" was someone who works at a VA hospital really gets systems thinking.
Lastly there is the "well-rounded" argument that has nothing at all to do with nursing practice. That's where the class in the ethno-musicology and art history courses come in -- but really? Most people have passing familiarity with those from general (non-nursing major) coursework, or have had life experiences that pale next to a textbook. I do agree that no knowledge is ever wasted, it's the way they frame that excludes other ways of becoming well-rounded or as a student once said a BSN has "a certain polish" compared to their ADN counterparts. A 20 yr old who was raised in an affluent gated-community who took a course in Comparative Cultures is not more well-rounded than someone who lived in one of those comparative cultures.
There are personality characteristics you could generalize about - but it's likely that they were present before the person was in a BSN program.
At the end of the day though - whatever the reason may be for employers to request that only BSNs only need apply we have to face the reality or stay home and ***** about it all day long.Last edit by nursel56 on Feb 27, '12
Feb 27, '12Ahh, yes... The same Linda Aiken who brought us the wonderful "disturbed energy field" nursing diagnosis in her NANDA handbook. That instills such confidence in me that her research is "evidence-based."
Feb 27, '12Please,how many hours will be used to write the LPN exam and what happens when you fail the exam?
Feb 29, '12There will always be ADN nurses! They have been talking about phasing out ADN nurses for 20+ years and the majority of RN's are ADN's.Also with a nationwide shortage of RN's to exceed 500,000 by 2020 they are not going anywhere. I would recomend the LPN route if you need income then bridge to ADN,then online BSN become a phoenix like everyone else.
Mar 1, '12Quote from nursel56Exactly (...and I make my way back into the fray)....
At the end of the day though - whatever the reason may be for employers to request that only BSNs only need apply we have to face the reality or stay home and ***** about it all day long.
That's more or less my impression of the current climate, and though I agree with others on this thread that there's a great deal of bs to the BSN (insomuch as the archetypal "Leadership" class), I do believe that even the vague implication of a better-equipped workforce is worth the a clumsy transitional phase.
I imagine there will be RNs with Associate degrees (and even Diplomas) for a decade or two more but after that, for a slurry of both well and poorly thought-out reasons, they will become a single-digit minority.
And don't think a shortage = increased hiring only increased demand.
Mar 1, '12Yes I agree! The IOM report correctly states that there needs to be some mechanism for merging current CC ADN programs into a workable way for them to transition before any mandates are handed down. I don't think the change will come as a result of all 50 state legislatures passing a "BSN in 10" law but rather employer preference resulting from the much larger pool of applicants we now have. Fasten your seatbelts!!
Mar 2, '12I cant help but think that if people were dogging on ADNs the way people do are are with BNS nurses that there would be a massive uproar. But some how BSN students are fair game.
Mar 3, '12mjmoon, I'm not "dogging" on BSN students. When I'm "dogging" on is the willfully dishonest and manipulative bullying from the "ivory tower" career academicians who are pushing their biased agenda. Most BSN students have never even met these people. The students are simply choosing their own academic and career path based on what the market dictates. It is the academicians who haven't been at the bedside for a decade or more who are publishing misleading "studies" and lobbying for the mandating of "BSN-only" requirements. The enactment of these mandates (whether officially by law or unofficially by employer bias and "magnet" requirements) that conveniently brings hundreds of millions of dollars of tuition to universities and threatens the existence of community colleges. That this sort of behavior is accepted in a field that is reknown for its honesty and integrity is most disturbing.
Mar 3, '12This doesn't seem out of the norm for many professions though.. an asscociate's degree has lost it's value in almost every other field.. it seems to me that this is a normal progression. I remember a couple decades ago people with decades of experience getting passed over by a degree holder simply because of the degree. It seems to me this has reached nursing. (as it did with PT and is happening with RT as well, from what I understand. Yes, there are a lot of classes irrelevent to nursing one must take to get a B.S. degree- but there are also a lot of relevent classes you wont get on the ADN level.. ALL profressions above a trade level have education in areas outside of their specialty. Why is that a bad thing?
Mar 5, '12I would go for the ADN to BSN. Going to school after you get your RN would be much easier than waiting for 4 years to get a decent check. The pay is not much different for a ADN than BSN. Sometimes it is not even a difference in pay. I did my LVN first and have now started to do my ADN. Many of them you can do online now. So nice when you have real life bills and responsibilities!
Quote from gapeacheykeenI recently relocated due to a nasty divorce, I have been trying to figure out which to do. LPN or BSN. I was waiting for the in-state tuition to kick in before I made a decision. (In Arkansas the wait is only 6 mo ) I really need the opinions of RN's and LPN's....which is better to have as far as pay and benefits? I have heard that Rns get paid almost the same as LPN's? I'm getting my CNA this summer so that I can get a job as well as go to school. I'm going crazy trying to figure out which road to go! Someone please give insight into each path. Do you regret the path you took? If so, why...I'm really interested.