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| Advertisement Sponsored Links | | | | No. 31 | 
Sep 05, 2009, 06:23 PM
 Re: Entry into Practice: Direct Entry MSN Programs Originally Posted by kimiij  I am currently in a DE MSN program- the oldest one in the country in fact. So, needless to say, I support DE programs. I literally just started this past week and I feel confident that I will be well-prepared. Whether or not RNs or APRNs judge me prior to seeing my performance, the bottom line is that I honestly don't have time to worry about that.
You have a very professional-looking blog!
I hope you don't think I'm nosey but I am curious: what got you interested in midwifery in the first place? Would you mind posting a little bit about your program?
Keep in mind, I am still skeptical of DE programs that prepare non-nurses to become clinical specialists, clinical leaders or nurse educators---but I would like to learn more about the DE NP programs because, for some people, they might be an excellent way to achieve their career goals.
Learning more about the DE NP programs from students actually in those programs might make them a little less intimidating or controversial to those of us who went different educational routes.
Thanks! And the best to you as you start your program.
 | | No. 32 |
Sep 05, 2009, 06:24 PM
Re: Entry into Practice: Direct Entry MSN Programs There are many other health careers that offer greater status, better pay, better hours and less stress. If someone "hates" nursing but still wants to remain in a health care field, why get an advanced degree in NURSING? Why not become a pharmacist or physical or occupational therapist, a social worker?
Well, one good reason to not become a social worker is to actually be able to work in your profession rather than sending out 60-100 applications without even an interview, which is what happened to almost everyone in my class. :P
If I could only work with the population I love so much (severely and persistently mentally ill), I would do it for minimum wage. I am applying to every inpatient program in the area in hopes of being able to work as a psychiatric tech, but I will probably work as a CNA. I am overjoyed to have this opportunity; the idea of having a guaranteed job (many offers already) is incredible to me by this point. So I am certainly not thinking about eventually going into one of the accelerated NP programs for the money. Again, if it meant I could work meaningfully with this population, I would work for LESS THAN MINIMUM WAGE, SIXTEEN HOURS A DAY!! (No, I'm not kidding. The recession isn't pretty...) The real point, however, is just how much this means to me. I would give just about anything to be able to do the work I love, and I can't do it right now. It is heartbreaking to see the desperate need and absolutely no mental health social work jobs in this area. If psychiatric NP is a more effective way to go, then I will probably eventually do it.
Anyway... along those lines, does anyone know anything about the accelerated program at Oregon State Health University for psychiatric nurse practitioners?
| | No. 33 |
Sep 05, 2009, 07:05 PM
Re: Entry into Practice: Direct Entry MSN Programs Originally Posted by Moogie
The only caution I would raise regarding an NP working in a staff nurse role is that one would need to be very careful not to overstep the scope of one's practice in the role. I also know that an RN who is employed in an LPN role is accountable as an RN, not an LPN, and any nurse who works in a CNA/PCT role is accountable as a nurse, not as an unlicensed direct care worker. Do you know if NPs who work as staff nurses would be held to the standards of NPs rather than staff nurses? Just something to consider.
As a new NP still working as an RN, I'd have to disagree with this. I am definitely NOT accountable for the medical decisions that are made by physicians--unless they make an error which is within an RN scope of practice to catch. That being said, I think I'm kind of PITA to docs these days since I hardly know which "errors" should be caught by any reasonable RN, or wouldn't be noticed without an advanced level of training. I put quotations around "error" since I'm talking about things that may not be "perfect" or acceptable according to practice guidelines, but still things that go unfixed in order to take care of bigger issues. Thus, my being a PITA--in a way, to the docs, I'm kinda like the nurse that runs around behind them saying "oh, you missed a spot".
Anyway, definitely time for me to move on. But I don't believe that my NP license is jeopardized by my fulfilling my role as an RN. If I acted outside of my scope of practice for my job description (which is RN), I'd be liable, and even if the choices I made were good, I would be risking my license(s), my patients, and causing all sorts of problems for people.
| | No. 34 |
Sep 05, 2009, 07:41 PM
Re: Entry into Practice: Direct Entry MSN Programs Originally Posted by Anise1 Well, one good reason to not become a social worker is to actually be able to work in your profession rather than sending out 60-100 applications without even an interview, which is what happened to almost everyone in my class. :P
That's outrageous. Social workers are NEEDED and I'm sure those that are working would report that they're overworked, just like nurses. I've seen gerontologic social workers employed in LTC work twelve hour days consistently and still not have time to get everything done. And of course they were salaried. 
How many students were in your class?
Very sorry you have hit this roadblock in your career. I wish your story was uncommon, but, as in most helping professions in this economy, it's hard for everyone to find jobs.
| | No. 35 |
Sep 05, 2009, 08:02 PM
Re: Entry into Practice: Direct Entry MSN Programs
Please come work with me......my patient population desperately needs the expertise and services social workers provide!! I'd also welcome a psych NP with open arms!!!
| | No. 36 |
Sep 06, 2009, 10:51 AM
Re: Entry into Practice: Direct Entry MSN Programs Originally Posted by BCgradnurse "I am sorry but have to judge this as not good path or safe enough education to take care of Patients as a FNP right out of College. I would request a Physician instead. Oh, I have ARNP and MD, and Lawyers in my Family also. If you ask me , we should follow the Money trail on this. The cheap and short cut way has always cost this world in every area of expertise. No wonder USA ranks 37 Healthcare. The most of Public does not know the differance between a CNA,LPN,RN,ARNP or [COLOR=green !important][COLOR=green !important]Nursing[/color][/color] PHD in the first place, God Help us. Oh gee,I think I will [COLOR=green !important][COLOR=green !important]become [COLOR=green !important]a [/color][COLOR=green !important]Lawyer[/color][/color][/color] and work in NJ with Detox waste law sues is there a two year program for that? ROFL" 
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but please tell me about your personal experience with direct entry grads. I'd like to hear some concrete basis for your bias.
I certainly don't regard my direct entry program as the cheap, short cut way. I had to take 3 years of pre-requisites, despite the fact that I have a BS in another health care profession plus an MBA, plus my DE program. And God knows it wasn't cheap....my huge student loan debt will attest to that. From my experience, my program consisted of highly intelligent, incredibly motivated people (myself included..lol) who were willing to put all else on the back burner to devote themselves to being the best caregivers we could be.
I have to say I'm dismayed at the hostility I've encountered both here and out in the world towards DE grads. I never thought the nursing profession would be like that, but maybe I'm naive. I thought only lawyers ate their young.... 
Yes ,it is my opinion that I am entitled to and I like the idea that a EMSN for FP works as a RN while obtaining the EMSN ARNP. Without the experiance I think the EMSN for FP is producing a RN with a piece of paper saying FP. That is my opinion. Good Luck I wish you all the best and GB.
| | No. 37 |
Sep 06, 2009, 12:47 PM
Re: Entry into Practice: Direct Entry MSN Programs Originally Posted by >30yrsRN Yes ,it is my opinion that I am entitled to and I like the idea that a EMSN for FP works as a RN while obtaining the EMSN ARNP. Without the experiance I think the EMSN for FP is producing a RN with a piece of paper saying FP. That is my opinion. Good Luck I wish you all the best and GB.
This opinion is not based in reality. Why judge something when you don't understand it or know anything about it? With all due respect (and I do indeed have respect for your >30 years), I think it's odd that you include yourself in a conversation where you have nothing but judgement to offer.
Many folk have objections to DE MSNs that are based on experiences they have had. Those are useful for one who many be considering starting a DE nursing program. But opinions that are not backed by actual information aren't helpful. If you have a reason for objecting to these programs, I would be happy to hear it.
| | No. 38 |
Sep 06, 2009, 02:58 PM
Re: Entry into Practice: Direct Entry MSN Programs Originally Posted by BCgradnurse Please come work with me......my patient population desperately needs the expertise and services social workers provide!! I'd also welcome a psych NP with open arms!!!
!!!! (ahem) Where on earth are you?
Some days, it's just hard. I went back to school after several years with half an undergraduate degree; I had no family support whatsoever, many years of rehab after a near-fatal car accident where I had broken almost every bone, suffered neurological damage, and gone through 10 operations, and many people predicted I would never make it (I wasn't sure I would either). I got through and went all the way to graduating with a masters' degree... and then, nothing. 75 people in the class, and very few have a job except for those who were kept by their internships. Everything was going so well at mine (a large mental health provider), my hopes were high, and then, on literally the last day of the internship, over 1/3rd of the employees were laid off. So that was that. Thanks for letting me vent a bit. 
Nothing will ever make me give up, but I've always known that I would go on to additional higher education eventually-- it's just that I now believe it will not be a PhD in social work. If I can eventually work most effectively with my chosen population facilitated by something like a direct entry program, then I'll choose that.
| | No. 39 |
Sep 06, 2009, 03:59 PM
Re: Entry into Practice: Direct Entry MSN Programs
Kanzi,
I couldn't have said it better. As I said before, I would like to see some concrete evidence for the prejudice. Unfortunately, prejudice is usually based on fear/insecurity or ignorance, so there aren't any good solid reasons that can be presented. It's unfortunate-that's how a lot of problems in this world get started.
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