Entry into Practice: Direct Entry MSN Programs

I'm a recent DE grad also. It took me 5 years from BA-->RN-->MSN. 1st year was all pre-reqs, so doesn't technically count, but I count it since I needed those 6 classes. To get my RN, I took 18 months of basic nursing courses with clinicals. All of the courses and clinicals corresponded to the BSN program--we just didn't take anything else since we already had our pre-reqs and the basic college level studies that are normal in most bachelor's degrees. After 18 months, we took the NCLEX, then found work as an RN (this was mandatory for my program--since we weren't awarded BSNs, finding a job was a little tricky, but everyone managed). The program required 6 months full-time work as a nurse--as far as I know, everyone is still working as a nurse, and that was 2 and 1/2 years ago. I've been working part-time and took 2 more years to complete my graduate course work and clinicals. Now I'm interviewing for an adult NP position while I continue working as a nurse.

So, basically, I've done the direct entry program AND gotten over 2 years experience as an RN. Working as an RN has helped me prepare in many ways--mostly just exposure to many many different patients and conditions. At this point, I feel ready to move on since I can't grow as an NP in my current position, and I don't have an NP mentor. But 2 years was really a perfect amount of time for me. When I interview, I don't worry about lack of experience.

So, the minimum time to complete my DE program was 4 years (not including pre-reqs--min for FNP or anesthesia is 5 years). Most people who started with me are taking more time.

-Kan

Thank for you the reply. I am in my last semester of pre-reqs right now and very worried about how long it will take to get into the nursing program. The way the petition process is run, I will not be eligible to get in next semester due to the deadlines of the petition as well as the necessity of having my complete grade(for the final pre-req) posted before petitioning.

My friend Shannon had to wait 3 full semesters before being accepted and she is a 4.0 student who scored in the 99th percentile on the NLN. Maybe I should cut my losses now and sign up at UWM. A lot of my friends go there and after all the pre-reqs I have taken, along with my former college credits, I can't see their program taking any longer than the one I am currently enrolled in!

Thanks again, I'm going to look into this right now.

I am sorry but have to judge this as not good path or safe enough education to take care of Patients as a FNP right out of College. I would request a Physician instead. Oh, I have ARNP and MD, and Lawyers in my Family also. If you ask me , we should follow the Money trail on this. The cheap and short cut way has always cost this world in every area of expertise. No wonder USA ranks 37 Healthcare. The most of Public does not know the differance between a CNA,LPN,RN,ARNP or Nursing PHD in the first place, God Help us.
Oh gee,I think I will become a Lawyer and work in NJ with Detox waste law sues is there a two year program for that? ROFL

JD2nurse, you sound like a very focused, intelligent individual who knows what he wants and you will be an asset to the nursing profession, whatever you end up doing. I think you are the kind of person who will succeed in an ELMSN program. One of my objections, however, to ELMSN is that not every student seems to be as focused as you. Some---not all but some---seem to have a vague notion that they want to be in nursing but have no idea what specialty they prefer, what kinds of nursing they want to do---they just know they don't want to do bedside nursing and want to start at the top of the career ladder rather than at a lower rung. You have a goal---you want to be a FNP. I'm concerned about the students who say they want to be nurse practitioners but have little idea of what NPs do, what specialties are available for NPs and how an NP's role differs from the role of the physician assistant or other advanced practice nurses. I think students who are not focused and don't have very specific goals in mind might be better served by doing either an accelerated BSN program or becoming PAs instead.

BTW, I do understand that some institutions offer residency programs for beginning nurse practitioners. Whether one is a graduate of an ELMSN or a more traditional MSN-NP or DNP program, I think the residencies are a great idea, helping the new graduate become more familiar with the role and the type of practice as well as providing specialty training. I know, there's a collective sigh of disgust over the idea of yet one more hoop over which one must jump in order to achieve one's career goals but I think residency programs sound very worthwhile.

My other main objection to ELMSN is not students who wish to get into the NP role but those students who want to go directly into roles as nurse educators, clinical nurse specialists and clinical nurse leaders. Those roles require levels of clinical expertise that cannot be obtained through book-learning or nursing school clinicals. A CNS or CNL is considered to be a nurse LEADER, a resource person who can help troubleshoot difficult patient situations and help in the most complex cases. How can any nurse be a credible leader if he/she with entry-level experience and education? Moreover, a clinical specialist or leader who is not clinically competent will not be respected and he/she will be rendered ineffective as a leader. For nurse educators, the need for clinical expertise may be even more critical. Even nurse educators who teach theory courses or skills labs need to have relevant, practical experience with real, live patients in order to help their students bridge the knowledge gap between theory and practice. Those who cannot bridge the theory-practice gap do no favors to their students, who may learn about theory in school but aren't able to translate what they learned about theory into real life practice. Educators without clinical experience also lack credibility. I had an instructor in the mental health component of my BSN program who had gone directly from her own BSN program into an MSN program. Some of us in the class were experienced RNs and when we discovered that she had never, ever, not once worked in mental health nursing, she lost all credibility with our class. She couldn't share with us stories about her own clinical experiences as she had none. She couldn't relate to the experiences the students had in clinicals because she had never worked in a psychiatric setting.

Moreover, a nurse cannot do credible research unless that nurse has some understanding of clinical realities. Please, let me share with you my own experience. I had been out of nursing for several years due to being a SAHM and doing something outside of nursing. When I went back for my master's for nursing education, one of my professors urged me to get back into clinical nursing for a while, to re-learn some of my skills that were rusty and to get a better feeling for topics in nursing research that might appeal to me. She was right. I had a lot of difficulty figuring out what sorts of areas of interest I had for nursing research and I did feel uncomfortable, even teaching in a skills lab, when it had been so long since I'd performed many of these skills. It was a pain in the neck (okay, lower...) to go back to a clinical setting for a while, but I learned so many things and I would not hesitate to return to clinical nursing in the future if I felt I needed a little reality check or to brush up on my skills.

Having said all this, I guess it frustrates me when I hear people wanting to go ELMSN (or, for that matter of fact, directly from a BSN program into a MSN program) for nursing education because I think they're really cheating themselves by not having at least some clinical expertise. I also think they're shortchanging their students.

To JD2nurse, congratulations on getting accepted into the program of your choice and good luck to you on your educational journey! Please keep us posted on how it goes for you.

I really hope you are able to get into an accelerated BSN program. You sound like an excellent candidate and it seems to me that it would be very frustrating to go through all that work, end up with an ADN, only to have to go through more work and more schooling to become a BSN or MSN. Good luck to you, too!

Oh thank you for posting this. I too am a non-medical post-bac student (actually I have an MBA as well) and have wanted to ask this question. I am primed to either program. Where I live the pre-req's are the same for both with the exception of one class. I've read other posts similiar to this one, but most of the replies seemed to be non-NP that just wanted to put their 2 cents in about how an NP without the extra nursing years experience would be worth squat. I am currently pursuing the traditional BSN, but my school also offers the MSN after one year of experience (actually, it appears they will let you start the non-clinical classes immediately after you graduate BSN but you can't take the clinical courses until you've had a years worth of experience) So I think that's the way to go simply because I've heard such negativity on these boards concerning the Direct Entry MSN.

I hope more people will post about this topic.

As far as not being able to do nursing research without doing lots of clinical practice I beg to differ. One of the best researchers around was a woman at JHU who had a doctorate in another field. She brought a unique perspective to nursing. This is what nursin misses. If you go into a medical school you will see people with PhDs in all sorts of other fields doing MEDICAL research. Computer people, psychologists, all kinds of chemists and biologists. They come at the research from different perspective and this is what nursing is missing. I am very familiar with this because I have actually been there.

I don't understand this contest between people with "years of experience" and people that are newly graduated of have little or medium amounts of experiences, or people with experience from another field that they bring. I feel nursing has been very teritorial in the past, like people that have been isolated on an island. That is not the way to progress. People with other backgrounds especially help to move things forward.

I also want to point out that if someone went right into and industrial research setting hospital experience may help in some ways but mostly its a different animal. Again, been there so I know what I am talking about here.

I am in total agreement however that a nursing instructor, teaching a clinical nursing class should definitely have nursing experience. How can you teach something you have not done?

Your decision should be based on what you want to do. In my opinion, if you want to work in acute care as an NP, you will have a very difficult time getting there without some acute care RN experience (ICU, floor nursing in a tertiary hospital, etc). If you want to work in primary care or in an office setting, I think the relevance of nursing experience is negligible. If you're like me, and you find every moment a learning moment, you will benefit from RN experience no matter what. If you are able to learn in an academic setting with a taste of advanced practice through clinicals, you may be alright without working as an RN. The INFORMATION/KNOWLEDGE you get in school is adequate--but there is nothing quite like seeing how this information is manifested in a clinical setting (especially in the acute care arena).

Not all DE MSN programs are the same, however. I finished mine in 4 years and have worked as an RN for more than half that time. I feel prepared to work within an NP scope of practice and to RECOGNIZE when something goes beyond my level of training and I need assistance. I believe that this is where an entry level NP should be--regardless of RN experience.