Religion, culture and nursing - page 3

by raekaylvn 10,406 Views | 50 Comments

Last night I was reading a thread about a Jehovah's Witness nurse. I found it fascinating! I read every single post. It got me thinking... what religions hinder full holistic nursing care? JW's have a thing against blood and... Read More


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    You can't get from the context of her post that she's referring to synthetic agents such as allopathic medications? Really?
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    Quote from BluegrassRN
    You can't get from the context of her post that she's referring to synthetic agents such as allopathic medications? Really?
    Yeah really. I can make "synthetic" water in a lab if I wanted. So, where do we draw the line?
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    I think you're trying to split hairs. I can't believe you don't understand the context of her statement. I'm done, though. Continue to proclaim your ignorance of her meaning all you want. Perhaps she'll return and enlighten you.
    sharpeimom likes this.
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    Quote from BluegrassRN
    I think you're trying to split hairs. I can't believe you don't understand the context of her statement. I'm done, though. Continue to proclaim your ignorance of her meaning all you want. Perhaps she'll return and enlighten you.
    Perhaps the person in question will. Another example would be say norepinephrine. It's naturally created; however, we can make the same molecule, synthetically, in the lab and administer it as an "allopathic medication" This is not splitting hairs at all.

    Edit: I'm not being argumentative, I want to know what the person in question is thinking. Is it anticancer agents with their side effects that's a problem, antibiotics, or any agent created in a lab period? If somebody does not want treatment, that is their decision; however, what is wrong in asking somebody on a public forum to define their rational and better define their stance?
    Last edit by GilaRRT on Nov 22, '10
    coast2coast and Chapis like this.
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    Quote from GilaRN

    Edit: I'm not being argumentative, I want to know what the person in question is thinking. Is it anticancer agents with their side effects that's a problem, antibiotics, or any agent created in a lab period? If somebody does not want treatment, that is their decision; however, what is wrong in asking somebody on a public forum to define their rational and better define their stance?
    Fair enough. It seems to me that you are being argumentative (pot, meet kettle at this point), because it seems so obvious to me what she means. Perhaps I've just known too many pagans and "natural" types.
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    Quote from BluegrassRN
    I think using the words "utterly ridiculous" in reference to someone's beliefs is inflammatory and does not contribute positively in any way, shape, and form to a discussion. I don't think environment matters; if it's rude in a face-to-face discussion, it's rude on the internet. If the intent of the forum is simply to be rude buffoons who try to one-up each other in witty and unhelpful comments, fine, it's appropriate. If the intent of the forum is to create an environment conducive to discussing different situations and view points, then no, it's not appropriate.

    No disrespect intended, but you are a complete idiot.

    How would that phrase NOT be disrespectful? Writing the phrase "no disrespect intended" prior to writing something rude does not somehow lessen the rudeness.

    A more appropriate use of the phrase could be "No disrespect intended, but I cannot agree with your belief system. I want to live, and in fact have fought cancer, 3 times, using standard chemotherapy. If I wouldn't have used the chemo, I would have left two young children motherless. "

    Anyhow, I was just irritated by the idea that 1) If you use the phrase "no disrespect intended" you can say whatever rude, mean, or inappropriate thing you want to say and have it somehow be okay, and 2) it's okay to call someone's religious beliefs "utterly ridiculous", particularly when the pagan poster gave NO impression that she believed that everyone else should believe that too, or that she looked down upon those who did not follow her religion.

    I guess it depends upon the intent. Do you really want to have a discussion, or do you just want to tell others what you think? Do you want to have some back and forth, or do you just want others to acknowledge your opinions as the only correct opinions? Is this a discussion board or a forum where anything goes?


    I appreciate what you're saying. Lot's of people say things like "I'm sorry but......." when they are anything but sorry. Or say "not to be rude......." and then are totally rude. It bugs me to no end also.

    I didn't mean to imply it was a positive statement designed to promote positive discussion.

    I'll surrender that your rewrite of what is more appropriate to you is less rude sounding and I've already acknowledged that phrasing matters.

    I agree with you more than disagree.

    Still, rather than call the poster a rude buffoon (your words), I can take them at face value and believe that they really mean no disrespect and really think the posters beliefs are utterly ridiculous, especially considering modern chemotherapy saved her life. Just as another poster called religious beliefs "wacky" or "hindering of care", etc.

    I don't think the intent of this post was discussion but to state his/her opinion. Sometimes we do that and don't invite back and forth discussion, especially in matters of religion and ethical beliefs......we think we are right...we state that, and then end the discussion. Nothing wrong with that on a discussion board either, happens all the time.

    And no this is not a board where anything goes.

    I also understand that regardless of intent it's how it's interpreted that matters most and we should phrase things with that in mind.
    Last edit by Tweety on Nov 22, '10
    Not_A_Hat_Person and BluegrassRN like this.
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    Quote from BluegrassRN
    Fair enough. It seems to me that you are being argumentative (pot, meet kettle at this point), because it seems so obvious to me what she means. Perhaps I've just known too many pagans and "natural" types.
    I lived in Afghanistan and have familiarity with the culture; however, I would not be quick to call somebody argumentative because they could not wrap their head around an Afghan cultural concept that was obvious to me but not to said person. Again, I like to know where said person in this thread draws the line so to speak. Also, why do people draw the line, what motivates them and what is their rationale for doing so?

    I lost a friend last week to cancer, he decided to quit chemotherapy and go au natural so to speak. He was tired of the therapy and against all advice, went another route. I can understand the aversion to the side effects of some of the medications, but would be interested in hearing other people's rationale.
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    Quote from GilaRN
    I lived in Afghanistan and have familiarity with the culture; however, I would not be quick to call somebody argumentative because they could not wrap their head around an Afghan cultural concept that was obvious to me but not to said person.
    Well, I don't *think* I live in a place where paganism/naturalism is the dominant culture; however, it's a liberal bastion in an extremely conservative area, and I'm guessing a lot of conservatives around here would think that we're all a bunch of naked hippies dancing in the woods praying to trees carved to look suspiciously like Obama. So who knows! I did work for a long time in a somewhat alternative setting (health clinic run by CNMs, attending birth center and home births), so I probably do have more familiarity with the natural crowd than your average joe. Sorry about that.
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    Quote from Tweety

    Still, rather than call the poster a rude buffoon (your words), I can take them at face value and believe that they really mean no disrespect and really think the posters beliefs are utterly ridiculous, especially considering modern chemotherapy saved her life. Just as another poster called religious beliefs "wacky" or "hindering of care", etc.
    I didn't intend for it to come across as calling the poster a rude buffoon; rather, that the entire "no disrespect intended, but" + rude comment would be totally appropriate on a board full of rude buffoons trying to out-wit and one-up each other. For clarification, Nozyrozy40, I don't think you're a rude buffoon! I just took issue with the one comment.

    It seems a common theme on the boards lately, this veiled or not so veiled intolerance for others' religion (including Christianity). And it's bothered me. This particular post on this particular thread, where Sharon points out the "vitriol" on another thread, just touched a nerve and I decided to post. It's just really bothered me a lot lately, that here of all places I see a lot of religious intolerance. Nurses get exposed to a wider part of the population than the average person, and I guess I just expect that exposure in general to lead to a little more tolerance, so it's always surprising and disappointing when you see it on a forum full of people for whom you have a lot of respect.
    Tweety likes this.
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    Quote from BluegrassRN
    I didn't intend for it to come across as calling the poster a rude buffoon; rather, that the entire "no disrespect intended, but" + rude comment would be totally appropriate on a board full of rude buffoons trying to out-wit and one-up each other. For clarification, Nozyrozy40, I don't think you're a rude buffoon! I just took issue with the one comment.

    It seems a common theme on the boards lately, this veiled or not so veiled intolerance for others' religion (including Christianity). And it's bothered me. This particular post on this particular thread, where Sharon points out the "vitriol" on another thread, just touched a nerve and I decided to post. It's just really bothered me a lot lately, that here of all places I see a lot of religious intolerance. Nurses get exposed to a wider part of the population than the average person, and I guess I just expect that exposure in general to lead to a little more tolerance, so it's always surprising and disappointing when you see it on a forum full of people for whom you have a lot of respect.

    I understand completely what you're saying and appreciate it. I do also agree with you.

    Except I don't see it as a common theme here, but more of a sometimes thing....sometimes it's more prevalent than others....maybe it's because I have super thick skin and I'm not afraid to jump in and tell people when I'm having issues with them, that I don't think it's the dominating theme.

    Also, I understand that sometimes we're just going to have to step on each other's toes because "tolerance" means too much of a compromise of a belief system and we can't be that politically correct. But appreciate your point that there is a way to do it and a way not to.


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