Time to call a duck a duck? - page 6

I remember having this debate with other students while I was in school. I have seen nothing during my time practicing nursing to change my mind about the issue. Now, with the recession bringing... Read More

  1. Visit  pedicurn} profile page
    1
    Quote from AlmostABubbieRN
    Believe me, sister, you're preaching to the choir!

    What's an NOF?
    # Neck of femur
    SuesquatchRN likes this.
  2. Get the hottest topics every week!

    Subscribe to our free Nursing Insights newsletter.

  3. Visit  nursemike} profile page
    12
    Quote from eriksoln

    I'm just suggesting that the desire/obsession with being considered a "profession" is holding us back. Its like we are rebels without a cause.
    Sing it, Brother! I don't guess I'm enough of a conspiracy theorist to think it's intentional, but I think a lot of the concern over professional standing tends to divide nurses. The debate over entry to nursing is a prime example. According to the ANA, and some allnurses.com members, I shouldn't be a nurse, because I'm only an ASN. My question is, who then will do what I and thousands like me are doing? And I don't mean only that associates and diploma programs are an ad hoc solution to a shortage of BSNs. Nor am I saying that nursing is only about passing meds and wiping butts and holding hands. Critical thinking is important! But it seems to me like a lot of advocates for professional standing are very nearly saying that nurses need to be doing what doctors already do, and seemingly disparage the things that nurses have always done. Why should academic nursing or political advocacy be more nurselike than, oh, say, taking care of patients?

    I've heard and seen "task-oriented," used as a perjorative. I am task-oriented. I've been a nurse for five years, now. I'm well aware that there is a bigger picture. A lot of times I can even see at least some of it. But, like many nurses (and many others) I'm a work in progress, and a lot of times I have to focus on the practical aspects of my job. I respect the nursing process, and I do believe that each part of it is important, but still, without Implementation, all of the other parts are just words. I actually have used NANDA nursing diagnoses in my practice. More often, I'm just thinking about what my patients' problems are and what can I do for them. I'm pretty sure I am capable, if need be, of writing a 20 page paper in APA format about my patient's anticipatory grieving. But I don't particularly want to be a writer. I want to be a nurse, and my patient wants a cup of tea and someone to talk to, and I think that might just give us a basis to interface constructively.
    Chin up, ohioSICUrn, CCL RN, and 9 others like this.
  4. Visit  jjjoy} profile page
    8
    Quote from pedicurn
    Re the nursing process ... It's the fact that it is formalized as a key nursing skill that is so embarrassing.
    No other profession does that. It is a 'given' in other professions....no need to formalize something so obvious.
    I agree. Assess/plan/implement/evaluate is a pretty basic problem-solving approach that tends to get beaten to death by some nursing instructors and taught as if it's something special taught just to nurses and will take time to learn well. It WILL take time to learn good assessment skills, determine the proper interventions, and competently provide care but the "nursing process" itself (aka generic problem-solving) is something I'd hope most nursing students came to the table already having a pretty good grasp of.

    Quote from pedicurn
    Yes many task orientated nurses do thrive....however I was making another point.
    Why is their contribution to nursing considered equal (or even superior) to other nurses who have the same practical skills PLUS the other skills?
    I hear ya! Many organizations reward nurses who are overly task-oriented because they get their meds done on time, have their charting done on time, leave work on time. Such nurses are favored among higher ups who prefer to blame problems on individual "poor time management skills" as opposed to chronic understaffing.
    LPNnowRN, AmericanRN, Bella'sMyBaby, and 5 others like this.
  5. Visit  CNL2B} profile page
    2
    Quote from ShannonRN2010

    I also have a slight problem with the thought that nurses are not respected in the community.
    What profession has been listed as the most trusted profession 8 years running?
    1. Nurses - 84 percent
    2. Druggists/Pharmacists - 70 percent
    3. High school teachers - 65 percent
    4. Medical doctors - 64 percent
    5. Policemen - 56 percent

    I think that the community looks at us as being professionals, obviously! Most ppl I encounter, respect the fact that I am a nurse.
    I think there is a difference between what the public thinks of nurses and what other hospital employees think of nurses (meaning MDs, pharmacists, management, therapy disciplines, techs, etc.) I believe this survey reports public perception. That doesn't mean that nurses are getting the respect they deserve in their respective workplaces (I would argue that they are not.)

    If you want to look at some interesting recent public perception that disagrees with your posted percentages, look up the Minneapolis StarTribune and some of the coverage of the recent nursing strike on the web. Read the comments on the articles. They number in the hundreds and hundreds. Largely, the public perception of the striking nurses is that they are lazy and greedy -- because of the economic climate, we too need to be doing more work for less money.
    oliviajolie and nursej22 like this.
  6. Visit  pedicurn} profile page
    2
    Quote from CNL2B
    I think there is a difference between what the public thinks of nurses and what other hospital employees think of nurses (meaning MDs, pharmacists, management, therapy disciplines, techs, etc.) I believe this survey reports public perception. That doesn't mean that nurses are getting the respect they deserve in their respective workplaces (I would argue that they are not.)

    If you want to look at some interesting recent public perception that disagrees with your posted percentages, look up the Minneapolis StarTribune and some of the coverage of the recent nursing strike on the web. Read the comments on the articles. They number in the hundreds and hundreds. Largely, the public perception of the striking nurses is that they are lazy and greedy -- because of the economic climate, we too need to be doing more work for less money.
    Yes, down here as well. I am often shaken by the public perception of us. With facility for online newspaper comments nowadays it is very easy for the public to voice their views. I have seen us described as ' dirty/lazy/fat/slothful/lowclass/slutty'.

    I don't think the public really see us as professionals. Perhaps in the generic sense only? With the rudeness I often receive in triage....I think they think I'm pond scum
    Scrubby and CNL2B like this.
  7. Visit  NocturneRN} profile page
    6
    Quote from pedicurn
    Yes agree.
    There is GENERIC professional (coming to work on time, controlling ones emotions, certain level written and verbal communication)
    and there is PROFESSIONAL which mainly pertains to the level at which information is handled.
    Too many nurse confuse the two


    I don't necessarily agree. It's just that the term "professional" has more than one application.

    As I've already mentioned, I don't see much use in arguing whether nursing is a profession in the strictest sense of the word, or a trade. Call it whatever you want: it makes little difference in the end. The earliest trained nurses were nuns, which caused the occupation to follow a quasi-ecclesiastical model. With the advent of leaders like Florence Nightingale and Clara Barton, it went more to a quasi-military model. Then, with health care facilities adopting a business model a few decades ago, nursing has evolved to more of a service industry model.

    Which is it? All of the above, and none of the above. Nursing, in my opinion, is an occupational category unto itself. Those who focus on the technical skills will probably see it more as a skilled trade. Those who focus on the teaching and philosophy aspect will call it a profession. And those who see the nurse as someone who does the doctor's grunt work will see it as plain hard work.
  8. Visit  pedicurn} profile page
    5
    Quote from NocturneRN
    I don't necessarily agree. It's just that the term "professional" has more than one application.

    As I've already mentioned, I don't see much use in arguing whether nursing is a profession in the strictest sense of the word, or a trade. Call it whatever you want: it makes little difference in the end. The earliest trained nurses were nuns, which caused the occupation to follow a quasi-ecclesiastical model. With the advent of leaders like Florence Nightingale and Clara Barton, it went more to a quasi-military model. Then, with health care facilities adopting a business model a few decades ago, nursing has evolved to more of a service industry model.

    Which is it? All of the above, and none of the above. Nursing, in my opinion, is an occupational category unto itself. Those who focus on the technical skills will probably see it more as a skilled trade. Those who focus on the teaching and philosophy aspect will call it a profession. And those who see the nurse as someone who does the doctor's grunt work will see it as plain hard work.
    Yes, it has different applications.
    I've just had a strange thought .... aren't we very similar to a commercial airline pilot? Lots of training, lots of experience,
    lots of responsibility ....but no control and very little authority. Some have university education vs some have just trade type.
    Lots of other people know how to fly planes but few really know what a commercial airline pilot does.
    Very vital gog in the wheel but just a grunt that organisations squeeze the last bit of work out of them.
    LOL....sound a lot like us
    oliviajolie, SandraCVRN, nursej22, and 2 others like this.
  9. Visit  ktrees} profile page
    1
    I am a professional, and I have a professional quest that I am on. Unfortunately, you do sound a bit angry. Good luck, I hope you find what you are looking for.

    Elle
    eriksoln likes this.
  10. Visit  SharonH, RN} profile page
    3
    Erik, I really feel for you. How must it feel to go to work every day feeling that you have no power, no respect and that your knowledge level is only a couple of years beyond a CNA? And look at how many people signed on to that POV! Wow!! I find it even more curious that you held this opinion before you even completed your degree yet you chose to enter nursing anyway? That's very odd.


    Anyway, you are entitled to your opinion and I don't intend to try to rebut each one of your points. However, I think you would greatly benefit from a change in work venue. Nurses work in so many different capacities both in clinical and administrative positions that it still amazes me the opportunities that are available to us (experienced) nurses. Look for those opportunities, go for it, good luck.
    Multicollinearity, tewdles, and VickyRN like this.
  11. Visit  wooh} profile page
    1
    Quote from AlmostABubbieRN
    Don't bash the midlevels. The PA must have a broad range of sciences under his belt and the two years of post-grad are intense. Six years vs. two for the diploma.


    Yep, I love all of our midlevels. Love them.
    SuesquatchRN likes this.
  12. Visit  Healsalot} profile page
    0
    Wow, really enjoyed this thread! Great discussion!! Keep em coming =)
  13. Visit  nursej22} profile page
    9
    Erik,
    Thank you for starting such a provocative thread. So many thoughtful replies and not nearly as much flaming as I would have predicted. And I don't find you angry or odd. I appreciate your bluntness.
    I do believe nursing has a controlled entry via licensure, and discipline via the states' BON, but I find most of your other points valid. We may be respected in polls but the public doesn't have a clue about our education, training or job responsibilities. Especially if you don't work in ED or OR! So you respect me because I don't get queasy at the sight of blood, or because I have to work off-shifts, weekends and holidays, or because I can read that awful doctors' handwriting?

    VMSR: right on about Monty Python! How about the Ministry of Silly Nursing Diagnoses? Potential for Ineffective Airway Coping? Alteration in Skin Exchange?

    Absolutely, nursing schools need more pathophys and clinical time and less theory BS.
    LPNnowRN, JacknSweetpea, MissPiggy, and 6 others like this.
  14. Visit  pedicurn} profile page
    6
    Quote from nursej22

    Absolutely, nursing schools need more pathophys and clinical time and less theory BS.
    Agree ...especially more pathophys. And more clinical skills. Plus generally slant more toward medical model with nursing art as adjunct.
    JacknSweetpea, CCL RN, oliviajolie, and 3 others like this.


Nursing Jobs in every specialty and state. Visit today and Create Job Alerts, Manage Your Resume, and Apply for Jobs.

Top