Time to call a duck a duck? - page 8

by eriksoln | 88,219 Views | 547 Comments

I remember having this debate with other students while I was in school. I have seen nothing during my time practicing nursing to change my mind about the issue. Now, with the recession bringing out the true colors of nurses... Read More


  1. 6
    Quote from pedicurn
    Yes agree.
    There is GENERIC professional (coming to work on time, controlling ones emotions, certain level written and verbal communication)
    and there is PROFESSIONAL which mainly pertains to the level at which information is handled.
    Too many nurse confuse the two


    I don't necessarily agree. It's just that the term "professional" has more than one application.

    As I've already mentioned, I don't see much use in arguing whether nursing is a profession in the strictest sense of the word, or a trade. Call it whatever you want: it makes little difference in the end. The earliest trained nurses were nuns, which caused the occupation to follow a quasi-ecclesiastical model. With the advent of leaders like Florence Nightingale and Clara Barton, it went more to a quasi-military model. Then, with health care facilities adopting a business model a few decades ago, nursing has evolved to more of a service industry model.

    Which is it? All of the above, and none of the above. Nursing, in my opinion, is an occupational category unto itself. Those who focus on the technical skills will probably see it more as a skilled trade. Those who focus on the teaching and philosophy aspect will call it a profession. And those who see the nurse as someone who does the doctor's grunt work will see it as plain hard work.
  2. 5
    Quote from NocturneRN
    I don't necessarily agree. It's just that the term "professional" has more than one application.

    As I've already mentioned, I don't see much use in arguing whether nursing is a profession in the strictest sense of the word, or a trade. Call it whatever you want: it makes little difference in the end. The earliest trained nurses were nuns, which caused the occupation to follow a quasi-ecclesiastical model. With the advent of leaders like Florence Nightingale and Clara Barton, it went more to a quasi-military model. Then, with health care facilities adopting a business model a few decades ago, nursing has evolved to more of a service industry model.

    Which is it? All of the above, and none of the above. Nursing, in my opinion, is an occupational category unto itself. Those who focus on the technical skills will probably see it more as a skilled trade. Those who focus on the teaching and philosophy aspect will call it a profession. And those who see the nurse as someone who does the doctor's grunt work will see it as plain hard work.
    Yes, it has different applications.
    I've just had a strange thought .... aren't we very similar to a commercial airline pilot? Lots of training, lots of experience,
    lots of responsibility ....but no control and very little authority. Some have university education vs some have just trade type.
    Lots of other people know how to fly planes but few really know what a commercial airline pilot does.
    Very vital gog in the wheel but just a grunt that organisations squeeze the last bit of work out of them.
    LOL....sound a lot like us
    oliviajolie, SandraCVRN, nursej22, and 2 others like this.
  3. 1
    I am a professional, and I have a professional quest that I am on. Unfortunately, you do sound a bit angry. Good luck, I hope you find what you are looking for.

    Elle
    eriksoln likes this.
  4. 3
    Erik, I really feel for you. How must it feel to go to work every day feeling that you have no power, no respect and that your knowledge level is only a couple of years beyond a CNA? And look at how many people signed on to that POV! Wow!! I find it even more curious that you held this opinion before you even completed your degree yet you chose to enter nursing anyway? That's very odd.


    Anyway, you are entitled to your opinion and I don't intend to try to rebut each one of your points. However, I think you would greatly benefit from a change in work venue. Nurses work in so many different capacities both in clinical and administrative positions that it still amazes me the opportunities that are available to us (experienced) nurses. Look for those opportunities, go for it, good luck.
    Multicollinearity, tewdles, and VickyRN like this.
  5. 1
    Quote from AlmostABubbieRN
    Don't bash the midlevels. The PA must have a broad range of sciences under his belt and the two years of post-grad are intense. Six years vs. two for the diploma.


    Yep, I love all of our midlevels. Love them.
    SuesquatchRN likes this.
  6. 0
    Wow, really enjoyed this thread! Great discussion!! Keep em coming =)
  7. 9
    Erik,
    Thank you for starting such a provocative thread. So many thoughtful replies and not nearly as much flaming as I would have predicted. And I don't find you angry or odd. I appreciate your bluntness.
    I do believe nursing has a controlled entry via licensure, and discipline via the states' BON, but I find most of your other points valid. We may be respected in polls but the public doesn't have a clue about our education, training or job responsibilities. Especially if you don't work in ED or OR! So you respect me because I don't get queasy at the sight of blood, or because I have to work off-shifts, weekends and holidays, or because I can read that awful doctors' handwriting?

    VMSR: right on about Monty Python! How about the Ministry of Silly Nursing Diagnoses? Potential for Ineffective Airway Coping? Alteration in Skin Exchange?

    Absolutely, nursing schools need more pathophys and clinical time and less theory BS.
    LPNnowRN, JacknSweetpea, MissPiggy, and 6 others like this.
  8. 6
    Quote from nursej22

    Absolutely, nursing schools need more pathophys and clinical time and less theory BS.
    Agree ...especially more pathophys. And more clinical skills. Plus generally slant more toward medical model with nursing art as adjunct.
    JacknSweetpea, CCL RN, oliviajolie, and 3 others like this.
  9. 3
    That is great, but I must ask respectfully if you love them, please do not insult them by using the term mid levels. My state license has on it Advanced Registered Nurse Practitioner. My degree no where states that I am a mid level provider. Does that mean that physician providers are high level providers and that nurses are low level providers? This is a physician, derogatory driven term, why do you use it? Paraprofessional and physician extender fall in the same category. I am not less than professional nor am I a physician extender. I work independent and in collaboration with other professionals.

    Thank you for your post. It has allowed for a new conversation
  10. 2
    Quote from ktrees
    That is great, but I must ask respectfully if you love them, please do not insult them by using the term mid levels. My state license has on it Advanced Registered Nurse Practitioner. My degree no where states that I am a mid level provider. Does that mean that physician providers are high level providers and that nurses are low level providers? This is a physician, derogatory driven term, why do you use it? Paraprofessional and physician extender fall in the same category. I am not less than professional nor am I a physician extender. I work independent and in collaboration with other professionals.

    Thank you for your post. It has allowed for a new conversation
    I don't think that said poster was being derogatory and I think that midlevel is generally an accepted term -- I've actually never heard someone take issue with it (until now). PA and NPs cannot, in most states, do everything that a physician can do on their licensure.

    The distinction with paraprofessionals is that they aren't licensed. I have usually seen that word tossed around with nursing assistants, not NPs.

    I would never call an NP or a PA a PE because they are not. I have worked with a few PEs over the years and they have no prescriptive authority (the few I have seen were RNs working with MDs.) Yes, they write orders and order tests, but the doctor has to follow behind them and sign off on absolutely everything.
    SuesquatchRN and wooh like this.


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