Vent thread "universal" health care

  1. 5 Gotta vent here.

    Three times this week a patient or family member who was looking for more and more benefits added to their (already insured and covered and provided for) health care needs told me "THIS IS WHY WE NEED UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE!"

    Ok, now, simmer down. Universal health care will do some good things. It will allow the working uninsured access to at least SOME medical care.

    "Universal" does not mean that you or your loved one will get EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE!!!

    So sorry, didn't mean to shout. Thanks for the safe place to vent.
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  3. Visit  mauxtav8r} profile page

    About mauxtav8r

    From 'heaven on Earth'; Joined Dec '06; Posts: 399; Likes: 282.

    31 Comments so far...

  4. Visit  nicurn001} profile page
    4
    No system of healthcare provision entitles the needer of healthcare services everything in the Universe . There are limits to what either UHC or privately insured healthcare can provided .
    GooeyRN, Not_A_Hat_Person, StNeotser, and 1 other like this.
  5. Visit  mauxtav8r} profile page
    1
    Quote from nicurn001
    No system of healthcare provision entitles the needer of healthcare services everything in the Universe . There are limits to what either UHC or privately insured healthcare can provided .
    So now if this could please be on the Times Square Jumbotron. Thanks nicurn001
    lindarn likes this.
  6. Visit  Quark09} profile page
    3
    Great thread! I believe it's Great Britian's PM who said (regarding their healthcare system) "We cover everybody, but we cannot cover everything."
    GooeyRN, nicurn001, and lindarn like this.
  7. Visit  l.rae} profile page
    2
    I can't afford to pay for their 'free' health care
    Anne36 and dp1200 like this.
  8. Visit  nicurn001} profile page
    3
    Quote from Aleah_RN
    Great thread! I believe it's Great Britian's PM who said (regarding their healthcare system) "We cover everybody, but we cannot cover everything."
    Couldn't find out who the PM responsible for this Quote is , but it is a good description of the NHS .
    Apart from the covering everyone , it is applicable to privately insured healthcare in the USA , which already rations care ( through preapproval or simply denial of coverage )which does not cover everything .
    WIN007, Altra, and lindarn like this.
  9. Visit  nicurn001} profile page
    9
    Quote from l.rae
    I can't afford to pay for their 'free' health care
    Do you say this of all things you insure ? , eg. I can't afford to pay for their " free " car repair .
    Premiums are paid to insurers , the risk is spread through the pool of insured and claims are paid from the income generated by the premiums .
    WIN007, Isitpossible, Altra, and 6 others like this.
  10. Visit  Quark09} profile page
    5
    Quote from l.rae
    I can't afford to pay for their 'free' health care
    You're paying a lot more here in the U.S.
    WIN007, CuriousMe, loriangel14, and 2 others like this.
  11. Visit  Quark09} profile page
    2
    Quote from nicurn001
    Couldn't find out who the PM responsible for this Quote is , but it is a good description of the NHS .
    Apart from the covering everyone , it is applicable to privately insured healthcare in the USA , which already rations care ( through preapproval or simply denial of coverage )which does not cover everything .

    That was my mistake; it was John Reid, a British health minister (from a discussion he had with TR Reid, who wrote "The Healing of America).
    WIN007 and lindarn like this.
  12. Visit  dp1200} profile page
    2
    Quote from nicurn001
    Do you say this of all things you insure ? , eg. I can't afford to pay for their " free " car repair .
    Premiums are paid to insurers , the risk is spread through the pool of insured and claims are paid from the income generated by the premiums .
    Invalid analogy. Everyone who drives carries car insurance; although I think there are still some states that do not require it, presumably a driver can still be personally sued if he harms someone and doesn't have it. This is not the same thing as somebody literally getting FREE healthcare, because they are not paying in to the system. To my knowledge, the government does not subsidize car insurance.

    The car insurance example is also not a valid justification for requiring everyone to purchase health insurance - you don't have to drive a car, thus you can avoid the requirement to purchase insurance. A health insurance mandate however is based upon the fact that you are simply alive.
    tntrn and VivaLasViejas like this.
  13. Visit  Quark09} profile page
    4
    Quote from dp1200
    Invalid analogy. Everyone who drives carries car insurance; although I think there are still some states that do not require it, presumably a driver can still be personally sued if he harms someone and doesn't have it. This is not the same thing as somebody literally getting FREE healthcare, because they are not paying in to the system. To my knowledge, the government does not subsidize car insurance.

    The car insurance example is also not a valid justification for requiring everyone to purchase health insurance - you don't have to drive a car, thus you can avoid the requirement to purchase insurance. A health insurance mandate however is based upon the fact that you are simply alive.
    You seem to be unclear as to how a universal healthcare system works. People are not, as you wrote, "literally getting FREE healthcare." The individual mandate requires that everyone pays into the system so that health insurance companies, who traditionally avoid covering people who are actually ill, have a larger pool of people from whom they draw premiums. This prevents insurance companies from cherry-picking only healthy candidates, and squeezing much larger premiums from those with chronic and/or expensive conditions, such as diabetes and cancer. Insurance companies can afford to provide basic coverage for everyone, and if a person wishes to purchase coverage above the basic package, insurance companies offer an assortment of premium packages to suit the consumer. People who fall below certain income guidelines will receive subsidies to help cover their premium, so that job loss or other circumstances don't result in loss of insurance coverage.
    WIN007, heron, loriangel14, and 1 other like this.
  14. Visit  dp1200} profile page
    1
    Quote from Aleah_RN
    You seem to be unclear as to how a universal healthcare system works. People are not, as you wrote, "literally getting FREE healthcare." The individual mandate requires that everyone pays into the system so that health insurance companies, who traditionally avoid covering people who are actually ill, have a larger pool of people from whom they draw premiums.
    Wrong. The individual mandate does not "require that everyone pays into the system".

    The individual mandate is a requirement that all individuals who can afford health-care insurance purchase some minimally comprehensive policy. For the purposes of the law, "individuals who can afford health-care insurance" is defined as people for whom the minimum policy will not cost more than 8 percent of their monthly income, and who make more than the poverty line. So if coverage would cost more than 8 percent of your monthly income, or you're making very little, you're not on the hook to buy insurance (and, because of other provisions in the law, you're getting subsidies that make insurance virtually costless anyway).
    Source
    (Note: this is sourced from an article that is generally supportive of Obamacare.)

    So yes, the same people who are receiving literal free health care will STILL be receiving literal free healthcare under Obamacare, and in fact, this law encourages even MORE of this behavior. It will increase healthcare costs, decrease accessibility and quality of service, and do little more than grow another permanent federal bureaucracy.

    I am crystal clear in my understanding of how a socialized healthcare system works, and I want nothing to do with it.
    tntrn likes this.
  15. Visit  Quark09} profile page
    5
    Again, your "understanding" falls far short of how a universal healthcare system works. Those people who fall under that 8%v provision receive the state standard for Medicaid, or if their age provides, Medicare. What the universal system will do is provide affordable care for those who cannot afford insurance but still do not qualify for Medicare/Medicaid.

    I get it though; don't let facts get in the way of your personal bias Now start posting some "literature" on death panels and "the government takeover." Don't forget your foil hat
    WIN007, CuriousMe, heron, and 2 others like this.


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