Support Planned Parenthood Today! - page 10

I see in the news that anti-choice organizations are planning demonstrations today at Planned Parenthood facilities around the US to support GOP plans to defund PP. Of course, my first thought... Read More

  1. by   Lil Nel
    I completely agree with the posters who say abortion is not the business of anybody but the pregnant woman.

    It is an issue of control, and little else.

    These pro-lifers who want to regulate the uterus of all females, why don't you butt into the business of "parents" who abuse their living children? If you read any media outlet, you will find on a daily basis countless examples of living children being murdered and abused by their "parents."

    I read a few weeks ago in the Washington Post about a seven-year-old being starved, beaten and fed to pigs. How pleasant do the pro-lifers think this child's life was? Perhaps it would have been better had he never been born. Of course, because he is dead, we can't ask him how much he suffered at the hands of his "parents."

    I read yesterday in the NY Daily News about a two-week found dead in the woods. Her father has been arrested. In the same media outlet, there is a story of a three-year-old reported missing after her "parents" forced her to stand alone in an alley as punishment.

    So please, pro-lifers, put your money where your mouth is and protect the "living" children, before you worry about the unborn.
  2. by   Lil Nel
    Here is a blurb relating to one of the stories I mentioned above. Something tells me that one, if not both of this child's "parents" knows exactly what happened to her.

    If pro-lifers truly want to help the unborn, why not seek rehab help for pregnant women addicted to drugs? Give that baby the best chance to have the best life possible.

    The parents of Sherin Mathews, the Texas toddler who vanished after her father left her alone in an alley, are no longer cooperating with the investigation, police said.
    According to CBS DFW, the Richardson Police Department said Wesley Mathews and his wife have hired a lawyer. The police department did not return the Daily News' request for comment.*
    Mathews, 37, was arrested over the weekend and charged with abandoning or endangering a child after he allegedly told police that he made the 3-year-old little girl stand near a tree in an alley behind their home around 3 a.m. Saturday.
    Mathews reportedly said he was punishing Sherin because she didn't finish drinking her milk. When he went to check on her around 3:15 a.m. she was gone.
  3. by   Kooky Korky
    Quote from Lil Nel
    I completely agree with the posters who say abortion is not the business of anybody but the pregnant woman.

    It is an issue of control, and little else.

    These pro-lifers who want to regulate the uterus of all females, why don't you butt into the business of "parents" who abuse their living children? If you read any media outlet, you will find on a daily basis countless examples of living children being murdered and abused by their "parents."

    I read a few weeks ago in the Washington Post about a seven-year-old being starved, beaten and fed to pigs. How pleasant do the pro-lifers think this child's life was? Perhaps it would have been better had he never been born. Of course, because he is dead, we can't ask him how much he suffered at the hands of his "parents."

    I read yesterday in the NY Daily News about a two-week found dead in the woods. Her father has been arrested. In the same media outlet, there is a story of a three-year-old reported missing after her "parents" forced her to stand alone in an alley as punishment.

    So please, pro-lifers, put your money where your mouth is and protect the "living" children, before you worry about the unborn.
    You are assuming that these cases are known to people in time to do something to help.
  4. by   Kooky Korky
    Quote from elkpark
    Whether or not a fetus is an "innocent child" with rights is a matter of personal opinion and belief about which many people disagree. If you're opposed to abortion, you are welcome to not have one, or to persuade or forbid women directly connected to you (wife, daughters, etc.) not to have one. Otherwise, none of your business.
    Abortion is a societal issue. We all have, and are allowed to have, and should have an opinion about it.
  5. by   heron
    Quote from Kooky Korky
    Abortion is a societal issue. We all have, and are allowed to have, and should have an opinion about it.
    Of course you're allowed to have an opinion. What we don't accept is the proposition that your opinions should rule anyone else's life choices.
  6. by   heron
    Quote from Kooky Korky
    You are assuming that these cases are known to people in time to do something to help.
    Nope, not an excuse ... you, as a citizen, contribute to the problem by way of defunding services aimed at supporting children at risk. The generally proposed excuse for that is that such services represent an unjustified benefit to the childrens' parents. IOW, punishing the parents is more important than protecting and supporting the children. This is why I don't take the forced pregnancy movement (distinct from pro-life) seriously when they carry on about "reverence for life".
  7. by   Kooky Korky
    Quote from ItsThatJenGirl
    I honestly don't know how to respond to this. You paint a vivid picture of something you cannot possibly know the reality of. You are using language to manipulate people in order to further your agenda. It's despicable. I often find when people are unable to make a logical arguments, they make emotional ones.

    You offer an anecdote. Yes, some women do get repeat abortions. So what? I'll reiterate that abortion is a legal, acceptable procedure that is there for women who need it.

    I could not give a sh*t less about the father, either. I know that's very un PC of me, but men shouldn't be having sex with a women until they've had discussions about pregnancy and what options will be on the table if something were to happen. If you're sleeping with someone who believes in abortion, and you don't - that's on you.

    The fact is, I don't care about your religion, your god or your heaven. What I do to my body is my choice. You don't get to have an opinion about it. Period. You can judge me however you like, but it matters not - not only in a personal sense, but in a legal sense as well.

    I agree women need support when faced with an unwanted pregnancy and should be made aware of all options available to her. But that's where I step out and allow a woman total bodily autonomy, because I certainly don't have a right to choose anything on her behalf. Nor do I have the right to remind her to "mourn" her embryo. That's asinine.

    As far as abortion being control over women, I cannot disagree more. Especially considering the new restrictions on birth control. We're not supposed to have abortions, or we're horrible people. We are no longer legally allowed to have abortions after 20 weeks, and now our employers get to make decisions about our hormonal birth control. I don't know how these actions can be taken as anything other than controlling women. I mean, vasectomies are covered. Boner pills are covered. No one is trying to infringe on the rights of men.
    If women want birth control, is anything stopping them from having it? If their employer doesn't pay for it, a woman can work her budget so that she can pay for it herself. Should Viagra be covered? No, IMO. Vasectomies should definitely be covered - less pregnancies result. Should tubal ligations be covered? Yes. Same reason.

    I know the reality of AB as well as anyone who can read about them or see the pictures of aborted babies. And don't think that just because I haven't had to fear being pregnant I can't relate to women who have or do. I'm as sensitive to it all as anyone who's ever lived. Men have wives, daughters, sisters, mothers - some of whom have had to deal with such a situation, due either to rape or failure of contraception, or failure to use any in the first place. It's never easy, never a pretty picture.

    Mourning embryos - some are far past the embryonic stage. Those that get stabbed in the neck are close to full term if not fully there.

    20 weeks - weren't abortions supposed to be done only during the first trimester originally? That's 12 weeks, right? You have an extra 8 weeks but you're complaining about it. Now that is asinine.

    Language - you are using cursing and rage to manipulate. Pretty emotional.

    Religion, God, Heaven - take it or leave it, Jen. It's where I'm coming from. You are free to have your own view.
  8. by   Lil Nel
    Quote from Kooky Korky
    You are assuming that these cases are known to people in time to do something to help.
    No, I am not assuming that.

    There is plenty of evidence that drug addicts don't make the best parents. And I have seen the results of drug addicted parents, i.e. children placed in psychiatric facilities when they act out: threatening to kill siblings, teachers and themselves.

    So again, why don't pro-lifers, if they care so much for the unborn, put their money where their mouth is and mentor pregnant women who are addicted. We all know these children are going to have upward climb in life. Do something about it before these children are born!

    And I have stated on another thread that these abused kids don't live in a vacuum, or in a cave. They have aunts, uncles and grandparents. They attend pre-school and school. They have social workers, who are overworked due to funding cuts on the state level because people don't like paying taxes.

    The child who fed to the pigs, had a social worker involved in his case. So, clearly, people knew of the long-standing abuse.

    When pro-lifers start to put their money and efforts with their mouth is, I might begin to have some respect for their point of view. Until then, it is just hyperbole that just doesn't move me.
  9. by   heron
    Quote from Kooky Korky
    If women want birth control, is anything stopping them from having it? If their employer doesn't pay for it, a woman can work her budget so that she can pay for it herself. Should Viagra be covered? No, IMO. Vasectomies should definitely be covered - less pregnancies result. Should tubal ligations be covered? Yes. Same reason.

    I know the reality of AB as well as anyone who can read about them or see the pictures of aborted babies. And don't think that just because I haven't had to fear being pregnant I can't relate to women who have or do. I'm as sensitive to it all as anyone who's ever lived. Men have wives, daughters, sisters, mothers - some of whom have had to deal with such a situation, due either to rape or failure of contraception, or failure to use any in the first place. It's never easy, never a pretty picture.

    Mourning embryos - some are far past the embryonic stage. Those that get stabbed in the neck are close to full term if not fully there.

    20 weeks - weren't abortions supposed to be done only during the first trimester originally? That's 12 weeks, right? You have an extra 8 weeks but you're complaining about it. Now that is asinine.

    Language - you are using cursing and rage to manipulate. Pretty emotional.

    Religion, God, Heaven - take it or leave it, Jen. It's where I'm coming from. You are free to have your own view.
    1. No one is asking employers to pay for birth control, the issue is employers refusing to allow birth control coverage to be included in employer-provided health insurance, which is pretty much never fully paid for by the employer. The women who most need fertility control are least able to "budget" what they don't have on minimum wage jobs.
    High costs have forced many women to stop or delay using their preferred method, while others have chosen to depend on less effective methods that are the most affordable.

    Surveys show that nearly one in four women with household incomes of less than $75,000 have put off a doctor's visit for birth control to save money in the past year.

    Twenty-nine percent of women report that they have tried to save money by using their method inconsistently.

    More than half of young adult women say they have not used their method as directed because it was cost-prohibitive.

    Women are struggling to pay for birth control at a time when they need it most.

    Nearly half of women ages 18–34 with household incomes less than $75,000 report they need to delay or limit their childbearing because of economic hardships they've experienced in recent years.

    The average income for working adults ages 18–34 is $27,458.
    The High Costs of Birth Control - Center for American Progress There's an excellent chart in this fact sheet that summarizes the costs of birth control for women.

    2. The Roe v. Wade decision held that abortion is a private matter between the woman and her doctor (and whomever else she chooses to include in the decision-making) up to 24 weeks. 12 weeks is simply the safest time frame because the procedure is least traumatic and can be done safely in a free-standing clinic or office. You need to reconsider your sources of information. The forced pregnancy crowd is notorious for putting out utterly false information about the nature and risks of abortion, aeb the "crisis pregnancy centers".

    3. It's not for me, or you, to dictate when and for what/whom a woman should mourn. Whether she mourns for the end of a problelm pregnancy or feels relief is entirely between her and her own feelings and should be respected regardless.

    4. If it's incendiary language we're talking about, I think you would do better to address the language, images and tactics used by the forced pregnancy movement to manipulate women out of making a choice in their own self-interest, and to intimidate legislatures into enshrining religious dogma into civil law.
  10. by   Lil Nel
    I do have a question Kooky Korky: Have you seriously never noticed that this country places little value on "living" children? But there is a great deal of emphasis placed on the "unborn." Have you thought about why that is?

    I will also leave you the story of the big pro-life politician in PA who was forced to resign last week when it was revealed that he pressured his mistress to have an abortion when faced with a pregnancy scare. Why do you think that happened?
  11. by   ItsThatJenGirl
    Quote from Kooky Korky
    If women want birth control, is anything stopping them from having it? If their employer doesn't pay for it, a woman can work her budget so that she can pay for it herself. Should Viagra be covered? No, IMO. Vasectomies should definitely be covered - less pregnancies result. Should tubal ligations be covered? Yes. Same reason.
    If you're okay with vasectomies being covered, why do you think women should have to work birth control into their budget? That makes no sense to me. Especially when you consider that birth control is used to treat many medical issues - PCOS, endometriosis, etc. It's a medical treatment. And, like heron mentioned, most people pay for at least part of their coverage already. If we were talking about diaphragms, I'd be able to see your point a little. But we're not.

    I know the reality of AB as well as anyone who can read about them or see the pictures of aborted babies. And don't think that just because I haven't had to fear being pregnant I can't relate to women who have or do. I'm as sensitive to it all as anyone who's ever lived. Men have wives, daughters, sisters, mothers - some of whom have had to deal with such a situation, due either to rape or failure of contraception, or failure to use any in the first place. It's never easy, never a pretty picture.
    I respectfully disagree. Men can certainly sympathize with women in situations, but you can't possibly understand what it's like to give up your body for 9 months. I couldn't understand it until I did it myself.

    Mourning embryos - some are far past the embryonic stage. Those that get stabbed in the neck are close to full term if not fully there.

    20 weeks - weren't abortions supposed to be done only during the first trimester originally? That's 12 weeks, right? You have an extra 8 weeks but you're complaining about it. Now that is asinine.
    I'd love to see some actual cases here - Roe v. Wade placed restrictions on abortions based on viability. Certainly not anywhere near full term. I'm "complaining" about more restrictions being placed on women. It's dangerous and it's setting us back a good deal. People relate to women as their "mothers, sisters, daughters". You did it yourself in this post - I don't think you meant any harm, but when we talk about women like that, we're talking about them as they relate to men. We should be talking about them as human beings.

    Language - you are using cursing and rage to manipulate. Pretty emotional.
    Rage? Where? I used one "curse" word in a very long post to provide emphasis. I do it a lot. I enjoy cursing quite a bit.

    Religion, God, Heaven - take it or leave it, Jen. It's where I'm coming from. You are free to have your own view.
    I respect your right to your beliefs. I really do. But I will not allow those beliefs to infringe upon the rights of others. That's where I draw the line in the sand.
  12. by   Tenebrae
    Quote from Kooky Korky
    You are assuming that these cases are known to people in time to do something to help.
    Nia Glassie's five days of hell - NZ Herald

    You are assuming that people dont know whats going on. What is even more scary is the increase in incidents where that people know whats going on and choose not to get involved.
  13. by   Lil Nel
    The little girl I mentioned above was ADOPTED from an orphanage in India. So, there had to be several different agencies involved with this family. Visas had to be applied for to get the girl from India to Texas.

    Dad chose to do laundry before calling police to report the girl missing.

    The girl also has cognitive disabilities according to the article I read. Again, several agencies had to be involved with this family. How did no one see or suspect anything was wrong?

    I imagine any day I will read that her lifeless body has been found and that dad had something to do with her death.

    Oh, but I am getting ahead of myself.

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