Still think we have the best Health care in the world? - page 12
i heard this woman's story on npr the other night. read the diaries and make your own decision about whether our system needs reform. this patient had an 8 day wait to get in to see a us... Read More
Apr 9, '07Quote from GromitGEEKYRN, Taxes on the working class in the USA are NOT in the 48 percentile. Allow me to repeat that for you again -the AVERAGE AMERICAN WORKING STIFF DOES NOT PAY 48%.
You can claim your system isn't government run if you like, but it sure isn't run by private enterprise. The employees may not be government employees, but when government pays the tab, government calls the shots. That duck quacks like a duck.
Pardon me, but your rude vulgarity is only surpassed by your ignorance.
1. My system IS the USA system.
2. Please provide your citation for the tax burden of the "average American working stiff" and how the taxburden of (presumably the average Canadian working stiff, whatever that is) is 48%. As a working American stiff, I can assure you my total tax burden is well over 40%, probably about 44-45%. (property, federal, fica, state, medicare, sales, gas, etc etc).
Thanks to jerks on the fringe right, the government has had no accountability for eight years and has been free to ring up 350-500 billion dollar deficits every year. Unfortunately we are ALL going to pay a lifetime of hightaxes servicing debt with few if any of the government services the current generation of retirees enjoys.
3. As for the government "running" Canada's healthcare system per your continued infantile insistance, ONCE AGAIN, everything from the pharmaceuticals to the major healthcare providers to the employees in Canada are PRIVATE. The government is no more "running" healthcare than they are in the USA because the government happens to pool funds for medicare.
If you want to persist with your perpetual rant that it's somehow different than get off your carcass and provide for us the major pharmacies and healthcare providers in CA and list for us the percent of government ownership. (Try ZERO). Not anecdotal spammings.
Since you obviously won't do any of this, than perhaps you should stick to the free republic, rush limbaugh or whatever other crackpot site, your sort of personal vitriol and uninformed drivel will actually serve to impress somebody..
At a minimum I don't want this forum to be polluted with unsubstantiated ideological rants, and if I'm somehow encouraging you to behave that way than perhaps it's time to end this "discussion". you jus declare victory and convince yourself you're the man.
Apr 10, '07You want to call ME ignorant, and yet you seem to think (and I have NO idea how you could come up with THAT) that CBS is a 'right wing' site?!?? I think you just finished shooting your own credibility in the foot.
Oh and Geeky, you have NO idea what 'rude vulgarity' is, if you considder my statements to be such. As for our healthcare system, I have logged 19yrs taking care of patients in one aspect of our system or another, I think by now I have SOME idea as to what has or hasn't been working. I learned by doing, not by reading some books about it, and listening to professors who may or may not have had any actual tangible experience in it.
But hey, to each his (or her) own.
As for your claiming my ignorance, do you REALLY expect me to respond to trashtalk like that? Grow up.
I do seriously think we should back off a bit.
This site has rules about people getting too personal, and I dare say that BOTH of us are kind of skirting that. I like this site, and by and large people (even those who disagree) have reasonable discussions. Its obvious to me that this is getting pretty close to being beyond that standard. You certainly have no cause to encourage ME to behave in any semblance of what you seem to think is 'acceptable'. You should climb out of your ivory tower once in a while and see what the real world is like.Last edit by Gromit on Apr 10, '07
Apr 10, '07By the way, the Frasier Institute -which I mentioned had the list about waiting periods on healthcare systems with examples among others, the Canadian and the UK, is not a 'right wing' site either.
Before calling someone else 'ignorant', you should do some research of your own.Last edit by Gromit on Apr 10, '07
Apr 10, '07From the same article. It seems quite complicated.
Government licensed health professionals and facilities. It is not perfect but there are standards. Just like what we read about in Canada we have horrible things in our facilities.
Doesn't each Province administer their Medicare?
Not right or left wing. The article says good and bad about the Canadian system.
...Despite the financial burden, Canadians value their Medicare as a marker of egalitarianism and independent identity that sets their country apart from the United States, where some 45 million Americans lack health insurance.
Raisa Deber, a professor of health policy at the University of Toronto, believes Canada's system is one of the world's fairest.
"Canadians are very proud of the fact that if they need care, they will get care," she said. Of the United States, she said: "I don't understand how they got to this worship of markets, to the extent that they're perfectly happy that some people don't get the health care that they need."
Canada does not have fully nationalized health care; its doctors are in private practice and send their bills to the government for reimbursement.
"That doctor doesn't have to worry about how you're going to pay the bill," said Deber. "He knows that his bill will be paid, so there's absolutely nothing to stop any doctor from treating anyone." ...
BUT ...George Zeliotis told the court he suffered pain and became addicted to painkillers during a yearlong wait for hip replacement surgery, and should have been allowed to pay for faster service. His physician, Dr. Jacques Chaoulli, said his patient's constitutional rights were violated because Quebec couldn't provide the care he needed, but didn't offer him the option of getting it privately.
A ruling on the case is expected any time.
If Zeliotis had been from the United States, China or neighboring Ontario anywhere, in fact, except Quebec — he could have bought treatment in a private Quebec clinic. That's one way the system discourages the spread of private medicine — by limiting it to nonresidents. But it can have curious results, says Day.
He tells of a patient who was informed by Ontario officials that since Ontario couldn't help him, they would spend $35,000 to send him to the United States for surgery.
Day said his Vancouver clinic could have done it for $12,000 but the Ontario officials "do not philosophically support sending an individual to a nongovernment clinic in Canada." ...
Apr 10, '07Why can't members just agree to disagree on topic without the mud.
Personal insults ad NOTHING to this discussion. When a topic casuses you to have a meltdown, time to step back get away for the computer... check out our blooming Spring flowers in US or take a cool shower.
Thread closed for cool down and mod review.