Should Healthcare Be Funded As A Basic Human Right? - page 6

The United States of America is a nation known and heralded worldwide for its democracy, freedom, and wealth. Through our commerce, we have become a prosperous nation. Through our commonalities we... Read More

  1. Visit  trufflelilyRN profile page
    4
    We all grew up learning that socialism is bad. That is not necessarily true. Other industrialized countries do a very good job with government supported health care. Check out this organization:

    Physicians for a National Health Program
    Physicians for a National Healthcare Program

    Last I checked the data the U.S. ranked 49th--yes, 49th--in infant mortality. Given the resources of the United States, this is a disgrace. As a nation, we are only as strong as our weakest segment of the population. Just sayin'. . .
    silenced, VanLpn, Fuzzy, and 1 other like this.
  2. Visit  trufflelilyRN profile page
    0
    How are we going to pay for it? Expanding Medicare to cover everyone is an extremely good suggestion. Support education--train and educate our youth so they have jobs and pay taxes. Bring corporate jobs to America. Corporations who ship jobs overseas should be paying dearly through taxation. Stop fighting needless wars. WMD? The Bush administration wanted the war with Iraq. We attacked another country on false intelligence? We spent enough in Iraq to fund health care for quite awhile. Afghanistan? They do not think like the western world, and do not want our interference. Religious zealots flew airliners into the World Trade Centers. It was a trajedy. Absolutely. Did we think what war with Afghanistan would mean? We cannot win that war. Could we have strengthened our own borders instead of getting into emotional, religious battles that has cost us, I think, about four trillion dollars?

    So, yes, we could pay for health care. The U.S. needs to establish healthy priorities.
  3. Visit  NRSKarenRN profile page
    1
    Please remember our Terms Of Service:

    We promote the idea of lively debate. This means you are free to disagree with anyone on any type of subject matter as long as your criticism is constructive and polite. Additionally, please refrain from name-calling. This is divisive, rude, and derails the thread.
    The nursing students capstone project post was a well thought out article. Please try and post in same vein professionally.

    NRSKarenRN
    PRICHARILLAisMISSED likes this.
  4. Visit  neurorn6 profile page
    1
    In answer to your remark about being able to pay rent or pay for medications. The answer is yes! Some of us have gone hungry (and I mean for more than a few hours) so our children could eat. Yes, some of us have gone without insurance, but made sure that our children were taken care of. We worked 2-3 or more poor paying jobs, while we went to school. We paid our bills, including hospital and doctor bills and made due with what we had. Unfortunately, over the years, we have become a nation of "give me" instead of "I will do". Generations are being raised on welfare and government hand outs. While I love being a nurse, I have seen a decline in personal responsibility. Helping people does not necessarily mean giving them money. You can feed someone from your own kitchen, you can give them clothes, you can teach them to stand on their own two feet. Once upon a time our parents and grandparents survived the Great Depression. I find it sad that if that happened today, most Americans would be unable to do the same. So by the Grace of God, I have grown and have been able to become a nurse.
    PRICHARILLAisMISSED likes this.
  5. Visit  wooh profile page
    0
    Quote from neurorn6
    Yet we found away with the help of God and CHOP to give him the best care possible.
    CHOP would be? If it's Children's of Philly, who do you think was paying for that care if you weren't?
  6. Visit  wooh profile page
    0
    Quote from PRICHARILLAisMISSED
    Then don't worry, because most of them ARE perfectly willing to stay poor and take the free bees. And remember, medicaid IS a free bee.
    So how do you (and others agreeing with you) respond to those who have said IN THIS THREAD, that they can't afford healthcare, even though they are working, not sitting around waiting for a handout?
  7. Visit  CountyRat profile page
    3
    I have a question. As I type this it is 12:50 pm in my time zone. I am starting to get hungry, and plan to have lunch in a few minutes. Here is my question:

    Do I have a right to eat food? After all, I will die without food much sooner than I would without healthcare, so the same argument should apply.

    The answer is, yes, I do have a right to eat. However, that begs another question: Since I have a right to eat, are not the people posting in this blog obligated to take me to the grocery store and buy the food I need? Or, should I just be allowed to go to the grocery store and take whatever I want without paying. After all, it is my right, so you have to give it to me, right?

    Wrong. My possession of a right to sustain my life with food does not obligate you to provide the means of enjoying that right out of your pocket. I have the right, but I still have to pay for what I need. This is the gaping flaw in the "healthcare is a basic human right" argument. Even if that proposition were true, it does not justify forcing my neighbor to provide me with the means to enjoy my rights by taking money that he has earned honestly away from him.

    Please read this: I want universal healthcare, just as I want everyone in my country (and the world, for that matter) to have the food, shelter, and clothing that they need. I am also willing to help my impoverished neighbor obtain healthcare, even if it costs me something. I do not object to healthcare reform, I think that we need it; I just recognize that any program based on the false assumptions and economic fantasies is doomed to failure.

    Oh, one last thing; the original article identified the phrase "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" as a quote from the U.S. Constitution. It is not, the Constitution contains no such language. The quote is from the Declaration of Independence, and refers to the illegitimacy of an authoritarian government interfering with a person's right to pursue these things, as the writer, Thomas Jefferson, believed the English king was doing. It expresses the American belief that government should not be allowed to limit or restrict individual choice. The fact that some people use this quote to justify increasing the U.S. government's power over our lives is beyond ironic, it is sad.
  8. Visit  Conqueror+ profile page
    3
    I might agree with people arguing against universal coverage if I didn't have thousands of dollars in income yanked from me each year. I have no children in school but a chunk of my taxes go to public schooling. Is that fair ? I don't begrudge other children an education but I work and cannot afford insurance for my family but I am essentially paying for someone else's child to attend school. It's backwards.
    GM2RN, HM-8404, and wooh like this.
  9. Visit  JudyGVA profile page
    1
    I find what most proponents of healthcare as a human right mean is that everyone should receive the top level of healthcare for free or a nominal cost. It does not, it means that everyone is forced to have the healthcare that the median citizen can afford, for the amount of money he pays. It means everyone is to die from the same fatal diseases that the inability to pay for treatment dooms lower-income patients to an early death or dimished quality of life. It means lower payments to doctors and fixed salaries and benefits for medical staff. It means no money for research to finance the development of new treatment methods. This is what happened in all the countries where it has been implemented so far. It won't be different here.
    PRICHARILLAisMISSED likes this.
  10. Visit  Conqueror+ profile page
    1
    Actually I agree with a paid option and a free/low cost option. I believe in getting more if you work more. I just don't agree with no access for a sick person. I also believe in beggars can't be choosers and NO that doesn't include someone who has worked their entire life or been disabled fighting for their country.
    PRICHARILLAisMISSED likes this.
  11. Visit  MunoRN profile page
    1
    Quote from CountyRat
    I have a question. As I type this it is 12:50 pm in my time zone. I am starting to get hungry, and plan to have lunch in a few minutes. Here is my question:

    Do I have a right to eat food? After all, I will die without food much sooner than I would without healthcare, so the same argument should apply.

    The answer is, yes, I do have a right to eat. However, that begs another question: Since I have a right to eat, are not the people posting in this blog obligated to take me to the grocery store and buy the food I need? Or, should I just be allowed to go to the grocery store and take whatever I want without paying. After all, it is my right, so you have to give it to me, right?

    Wrong. My possession of a right to sustain my life with food does not obligate you to provide the means of enjoying that right out of your pocket. I have the right, but I still have to pay for what I need. This is the gaping flaw in the "healthcare is a basic human right" argument. Even if that proposition were true, it does not justify forcing my neighbor to provide me with the means to enjoy my rights by taking money that he has earned honestly away from him...
    Our society does view food as a right, my money get taken away to pay for food stamps, mother/baby nutritional assistance, reduced/free school lunches, food subsidies etc.
    wooh likes this.
  12. Visit  Ntheboat2 profile page
    2
    Quote from MunoRN
    Actually I think the problem is that we try and separate them too much. Morals are how determine rights. Not all moral beliefs are rights, but all rights are based in moral beliefs. It's morally good to help an old lady cross the street, but it's not a "right" in that someone is required to help her. It's also morally good not to punch that old lady in the face, however that is a moral belief that has risen to the level of "right". I think some would like to separate the two, and say no aspect of healthcare is a "right", yet there a clearly some aspects of healthcare that these same people would consider a moral requirement, but for whatever reason refuse acknowledge the moral requirements as "rights".
    That reminds me of something Stephen Colbert said:

    "If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit that we just don't want to do it."

    Love him.

    "whatever reason" would be: MONEY. It's a right as long as it doesn't involve money.
    wooh and Conqueror+ like this.
  13. Visit  VBRNJD99 profile page
    2
    In response to some posters, actually, one can die without medication much faster than without food. I believe medication falls under the umbrella of healthcare. There are many services that " my hard earned money" pays for that I haven't used. I'm sure some of the posters have used pell grants, subsidized and unsubsidized student loans, fire and emergency services, bridges, roads, phone poles, electricity, and courthouses. My tax dollars pay for farm subsidies, oil and gas subsidies, prisons, state, local and federal government. And in finitum. I pay for people I don't know to go to college, go to work, stay warm, travel, stay safe, etc. There are a lot of misconceptions about universal healthcare, about the cost, the quality of care, the wait for services, etc. The point is that no one should have to die in the street because they can't afford basic healthcare.

    The next point is that ER services and emergency hospitalizations are not cost effective and are not basic healthcare. I have worked in the ER for many years and in LTC for many years, I have seen both ends of what happens to people who have no insurance, most of whom were like my parents, the working poor, lower middle class, hard workers, with no insurance.

    Or people who fall on hard times, lose jobs, lose benefits take insulin every other day to make it last, lose their legs and kidneys. LTC for life. Or, take their htn meds 3x a week, massive CVA, LTC for life. And on and on. But yet, "healthcare" is too expensive, it's not a basic right.

    Cost/benefit analysis; prevention much less expensive than catastrophic care plus extensive custodial care for years. Prevention for many still less expensive than catastrophic care, long term care.

    In addition, healthcare is a business right now, CEOs getting rich off of the poor. RX too costly, procedures expensive, tests, etc. What about cost containment? What about price caps? The govt regulates meat, dairy, phone, electricity.

    The constitution grants us the right to life, liberty, and property. Isn't access to physicians and medication part of the right to life? IMHO
    wooh and Conqueror+ like this.


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