Should Healthcare Be Funded As A Basic Human Right? - page 10
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Dec 6, '12Quote from MunoRNThere is a difference between giving your money away, and having it taken from you to service several trillion dollars in debt. When I give, I am choosing to do so, not being compelled.If you have health insurance or purchase any healthcare services then you're already giving your money away, that ship has already sailed.
I am not opposed to universal healthcare, in fact, I want it. I am also not unwilling to pay my share to make it possible. I am opposed to my government compelling me to purchase a service that our rullers have decided I should have. I am opposed to politically motivated boon-doggles that will saddle our children with a debt they cannot pay, to fund a system that cannot be sustained.Last edit by CountyRat on Dec 6, '12
Dec 6, '12Quote from Pets to PeopleI feel for people in this situation. I do.Of course they could if THEY HAD INSURANCE, that's the whole point. Most employers, especially those who pay low wages, do not offer insurance and even if they do, or if the person choses to purchase insurance on their own, they cannot afford it. This cost is more than they pay in rent, even if they are not on section 8 (which by the way does not cover the entire amount of rent), heck for us it's more than we make in month. Insurance through my husbands job would cost us $900 a month for the three of us and he makes $700.
But another reason that I brought up how people find money to pay for luxuries but not insurance is also because of this...
Let's say a 40 yr old man was to take out a health insurance policy for the first time in his life today. His premium would be MUCH higher than the premium paid by a 40 yr old man in similar health who has had insurance with the company since he was say 25 or so. The man who had insurance all along is getting by with much smaller premiums because he was RESPONSIBLE the whole time. The 40 yr old man who "Could never afford insurance when he was younger," but still spent the equivalent amount of money on Cable and HS internet is now paying for the poor choice. So why should the rest of us pay for his IRRESPONSIBILITY? And make no mistake. When you are a 25 yr old non smoker, whether you're male or female you can find health insurance coverage for even less than the cost of cable and internet.
...And don't even get me started on the irresponsible guy's nice car, either.Last edit by PRICHARILLAisMISSED on Dec 6, '12
Dec 6, '12Quote from CountyRatYou're compelled to contribute to other people's health care if you have insurance, I don't know of any insurance company that gives you the choice.There is a difference between giving your money away, and having it taken from you to service several trillion dollars in debt. When I give, I am choosing to do so, not being compelled.
I am not opposed to universal healthcare, in fact, I want it. I am opposed to politically motivated boon-doggles that will saddle our children with a debt they cannot pay, to sustain a system that cannot be sustained.
Dec 6, '12Quote from MunoRNI CHOOSE to have insurance, and if others benefit from my money, I am glad. It is not about money, it is about liberty. I treasure my liberty more than I treasure my money or my health. I am willing to die poor if I must, but, whether I do or not, I will die a free man!You're compelled to contribute to other people's health care if you have insurance, I don't know of any insurance company that gives you the choice.Last edit by CountyRat on Dec 6, '12
Dec 6, '12Quote from Pets to PeopleAn MRI can cost $3million... It takes a long time to recoup that kind of money. Plus it cost money to maintain.I'm sure they pay them off completely within a few years, if not less.
And as someone else said "ain't nothin free", well then how about not free but affordable, based on a persons income, so that it's not a handout but they can still have healthcare access?
It is also not realistic to charge healthcare fees based on someones income. If a procedure cost the hospital $100k, they would LOSE money every time they performed it.
Dec 6, '12Quote from Pets to PeopleAnd I congratulate you on your accomplishments. Now shouldn't others work as hard as you did to obtain their independence? And government funded healthcare IS a handout. A noble one but a handout it is. "Hand up" implies that the help is only there until the individual can take care of it on his/her own. "Hand out" implies permanence and it is there for as long as they want it.Why do people assume that people are poor because they are lazy or unwilling to help themselves? There are so many other factors involved, and sometimes a person just needs a little help, and some need a lot. They don't need a handout, they need a hand up. Who determines who's worth it? Aren't we all worth it? And not you or anyone else will ever convince me otherwise.
And I can assure you I have lived without rose colored glasses since my first memories. I have seen the absolute worse in people and have been drug though hell and back, but it has not hardened my heart. I I am an example of someone who can come from the worse type of life and with a little help and a lot of determination, can become a self-sufficient, tax paying college graduate.
As for the bolded portion of your quote. My answer is simple. We all have problems and obstacles in life. As adults we overcome them. That is how we become stronger. People need to take ownership of their own lives and not sit back and wait for the government to fix their problems. In short, they need to "GET OVER IT!"Last edit by PRICHARILLAisMISSED on Dec 6, '12
Dec 6, '12Quote from woohYou're right. I just imagined the entire neighborhoods of people I grew up in the middle of that were exactly as I claim. I must've made them all up. I must have made up my family members who abused the system and purposely did all they could to stay on and milk it. I'm obviously very bitter because I wasn't hugged enough as a child, so now I'm lashing out. Who am I to believe what I witnessed first hand.It's not as many as you imagine it is. (But I'm sure imagining it's a lot calms your conscience.) So punishing those lazy you people imagine are lurking on every street corner is worth thumbing your nose at folks like PforP that can't afford insurance?
I really wish I knew how to put in the rolling eyes emoticon about now...
Dec 6, '12Quote from MunoRNWouldn't you rather that they paid for it themselves? Over decades if necessary, but have some ownership in their own health? Just a thought.We pay either way, but we can chose what it is that we're paying for to some degree.
It's pretty rare that someone shows up to the ER saying they have a family history of DM, MI, and stroke and need to be screened to prevent their risk in the future. Far more often they show up in the ER years after that screening should have happened, now with a stroke, MI, etc. Would you rather pay for a screening at a doctor's office or open heart surgery, 3x/week dialysis, etc?
Dec 6, '12>>>When you are a 25 yr old non smoker, whether you're male or female you can find health insurance coverage for even less than the cost of cable and internet.<<<
Not if you have a pre-existing condition. Been there tried that at 25. I'm now 51 and have insurance for the first time.
Dec 6, '12Quote from FuzzyFair enough. Please keep in mind that I am not so one tracked that I will not be OK with exceptions being made for people wit pre existing conditioned. I do understand that, as part of society we all (including me) should have to be there for the other members. I have no problem with that, but that is a different discussion. I DO NOT believe that Healthcare should be funded as a right. I do understand that the taxpayers will wind up paying into healthcare for others. I'm ok with helping. I am. I am NOT ok with doing it all. I posted previously that I just want all of us to take ownership of our own situations and not just expect the government to do it.>>>When you are a 25 yr old non smoker, whether you're male or female you can find health insurance coverage for even less than the cost of cable and internet.<<<
Not if you have a pre-existing condition. Been there tried that at 25. I'm now 51 and have insurance for the first time.
My main problem with healthcare funding being a "Right" is that it will make it even easier for the lazy and useless parasites (YEAH, USELESS PARASITES) to take advantage of the system.
Also, because I know some of you will jump to arms over this let me clarify yet again that by "USELESS PARASITE" I mean ONLY, yes ONLY those abusing the system and purposely doing all they can to stay on it. If it does not apply to someone they not be offended because it is not meant for them. If it does apply to them then I ask them to "Please get off their lazy *** and fix their own damn problems." Be an adult for probably the first time in your life.
Dec 6, '12Quote from woohBecause, anecdotally, that has not been the norm, though such things do happen. I was referring, however (while failing to mention it), to more emergent things like cancer screenings when other diagnostics point toward it, organ failures, and the like. And chest pain will get me a room right away.Strange, I've waited over 16 hours in an ED. A couple months for testing. Longer for surgery. And that's here in the good ol' USA. And then I had great big bills after all was said and done. How is that better than socialized?
I don't know about where you live / work, but in my ED, if I go in with the worst headache of my life, I get an immediate head CT. If something shows, and immediate MRI. Same with bad abdominal pain - CT. They find a brain bleed or clot, immediate surgery. They find seriously blocked small intestine, immediate admit and treatment.
I remember reading a few years back (may have changed by now) that *all* of Canada had only as many MRIs as Detroit.
/shrug YMMV. I can only go off of my experiences and those with whom I communicate / read about.
Dec 6, '12Quote from Pets to PeopleI agree. I literally listened to this girl rant about "Obamacare" and how it was going to impact working people's lifestyle (as if everyone who would benefit from Obamacare doesn't work when it's the exact opposite) and then literally five minutes later announced that she was going to put her first big paycheck towards plastic surgery. Really? I replied with something like, "Wow. I don't really consider not being able to upgrade to the latest, greatest version of a phone or TV to be impacting my quality of life that much when there are people who are going without." I mean, if I have to "suffer" with a 52" TV when I really could've gotten the 64" if my taxes were less...and that means someone else can go see a doctor when they're sick...then so be it. I honestly feel bad for people who can't see beyond themselves. What's even more scary is that they are nurses...supposedly some of the most compassionate people.How about we all take care of each other and stop worrying about how much it's going to cost us? Maybe then we wouldn't have children starving to death while we throw enormous amounts of food in the garbage, or people dying of diseases we have medicine/cures for simply because they can't afford it...
What's really sad is that it is absolutely possible for there to be worldwide freedom from hunger, fear, poverty, most diseases and so on, but it will never happen because human beings are inherently selfish despite all those people who argue against evolution claiming that we are nothing like "monkeys" because of our higher intelligence, the most important of which is our ability to empatize, love and show compassion, yet we let our own people freeze to death on the street, let children starve to death, we fight with each over things that don't matter and it doesn't even have to be that way, we make it or allow it to be that way! But we can't change things because it's "too complicated", requires too much effort from us when we might have to miss the lates episode of American Idol or it might cost us a little extra in taxes even though we blow thousands each on nonsense items such as $800 purses and twenty pairs of shoes and eat out 5 days a week. Come on, do some of you people even listen to yourselves?
Our world is BROKEN people and it is only getting worse. You can't say you don't see it because it is right there in front of our faces everyday on the news, in the newspapers, the way we see other people behave these days and everytime we flip on any random channel on TV.
I find myself withdrawing more and more from society each year...within a few years I expect our farm to be completely self-dependent, we will have money and time set aside to help different local charities (because we ourselves had to learn how to work our way up from homeless and next year we will be college graduates thanks to help from only a few kind hearted people and government "handouts") but other than our few select friends, the only outside contact we will have to deal with will be employment. I don't even watch TV anymore, just movies with no commercials.
Sometimes my husband gets upset with me when I will take one of the only two dollars I have to bUy me something unimportant, like an energy drink or snack and give it to one of the random people begging on the corner by the local store. He says I've seen that guy at the store buying cigerettes or beer or whatever, and I tell him I don't care what he uses it for, he says he needs it and I have it so I GIVE IT, because others have given to me. I do not claim to be God so I cannot judge someone, I cannot claim to know someones life story or why the do or are the way they are...WHEN SOMEONE ASKS YOU FOR HELP YOU GIVE IT AND YOU DON'T ASK FOR ANYTHING IN RETURN, THAT'S THE MEANING OF GIVING!!!!!!!!!!!!
On a different note, when I see people boast on Facebook about the food they gave a homeless man or the money they dropped in a donation bucket, I wonder how sincere they are and how much good they REALLY do that they have to tell everybody in the world about it when they do something nice for someone else. Oprah said one time, "Do something nice for someone else and don't tell a soul about it" or something of that sort. When you think about it, that's really hard for most people to do. I think everyone should try it. I do what I consider "random (small) acts of kindness" and I don't tell anyone. Next time you use a dollar that you would've wasted and put it toward a homeless man, don't tell your boyfriend. You'll feel good about it and your husband won't even know to complain.