Schwartznegger on Hannity and Combs tonight.. - page 2
In case anyone is interested, I just saw an ad for Hannity and Combs on Fox News Channel tonight saying that Arnold will be on tonight. In a few minutes, actually. Have no idea what the discussion... Read More
Mar 9, '05If writing letters and signing petitions is all that we need to solve our problems, why hasn't it happened yet? Why is it that nothing other than a union has been able to get ratios put into law to protect ALL nurses, union and non-union alike?
I constantly hear people complain about unions, but no one will give me an example of another group of nurses who have accomplished what unions have. Maybe I'm just simple minded, but I'll go for what has been proven to work in the past before trying to reinvent the wheel. What's your alternative to unions? The ANA? Letting individual nurses fend for themselves without any sort of professional organization/group? Where has that gotten nurses as a group? This is what I really don't understand.
Mar 9, '05Nancy, CA is the ONLY state in the union to have mandated RN to patient ratios---NOT "nurse to patient ratios" mind you, but RN to patient ratios!!! CNA has helped us achieve that, and has also been largely responsible for ensuring public education about the role of RNs as patient advocates by their ad campaign utilizing the slogan, "Every patient deserves a Registered Nurse!"
We also do not put up with manadatory overtime or having to go home early, without pay, when the census is low. We don't have to. Our union ensures that management is aware that "mandatory overtime" is an excuse for management not doing their own jobs and staffing approprialtely--and that WE won't put up with it---and they call being sent home early what it is---an involuntary layoff--which is a grievable offense, and entitles the person sent home early to back pay and possibly more, when it happens--but it seldom happens. Management respects us in CA.
CNA also helped hospitals to get lift teams--mostly composed of big, buff, body builder type guys who LOVE to lift heavy objects in the gym, anyway, and getting paid for it makes it all the better--to cut down on on the job back injuries among nurses. Lift teams are now mandated in Hospitals by CA law.
I am proud to be a member of the CNA. I have said this many times--I LIVE in OR, but CHOOSE to work in CA, because working conditions, pay, and respect for RNs are so much better than in OR. In OR, at least with OFN--well, let's just say that OFN has always slept with management. They are a disgrace.
And if we can get a kick *** Teamster on our side--hey, more power to us!!! Teamsters have always been able to command respect and get better working conditions for both men and women!
Mar 9, '05Quote from stevieraestevierae - unfortunately, schwarzenegger vetoed ab 2532 - the lift-team bill. my hospital has had lift teams in the past and has a definite written policy and procedure for lifting. we are currently working on another plan to develop a lift team.lift teams are now mandated in hospitals by ca law.
he also vetoed:
ab 2874 that required more public notice of hospital or emergency room closures, and provided assistance to local communities that seek to maintain a private hospital threatened with closure. another one for his hospital buddies.
sb 1555 that would have made it illegal for private insurers to sell policies that exclude pre-natal and other maternity coverage. one for his insurance buddies.
are we surprised? he does not care.
Quote from nancy2so what? rn's across this country need a voice.since you admire cna so much, are you aware of their strategic plan of becoming the union for rns across the country...
Quote from nancy2well, then maybe the more than 40 million uninsured people in this country will be able to relax in knowing that they don't have to worry about getting sick or having a catastraphic healthcare event in their life or the lives of their children. don't even bring up the "costs" of such a plan. there is a way to do it and that is not what this discussion is about anyway....and pushing for socialized medicine here in the us?
Quote from nancy2won't we need someone who will speak collectively for us and lobby washington? will you be our leader? hope you have deep pockets. or should we all call and make appointments with the various politicos and pay our own way as we go one at a time? not gonna happen.if rns from this site agreed on an issue and wrote letters to politicians, signed petitions, notified state agencies of unsafe conditions and organized ourselves without paying someone else to do it (which is only a fraction of what unions spend this money on) you would see change.
thank you cna for all you've accomplished. like nancy has stated, i do admire you! the ratios taking effect didn't really change the way i work in the icu because of the longstanding title 22. but the ratios will and do affect the patients that i transfer out and the nurses who will now be able to keep a closer eye on those patients.
Last edit by begalli on Mar 10, '05
Mar 9, '05I have been a nurse in the state of California for almosty 31 years, as a bedside nurse in ICU. I have worked union and nonunion before. My hospital that I have worked in for the last 20 years in northern California went union with CNA 3 years ago. I will never, never work non union again. We have a voice in working conditions and patient care. We have a commitee that goes over patient safety issues once a month with administration. We have a contract that means the hospital can't change the rules whenever they want. Such as calling us off in 4hr. blocks when over staffed and not paying us call time while we have to be avialable. A limit to maniditory overtime. Not only does my union dues pay for collective bargaining( union workers make 15% more than nonunion workers by the way) it also covers belonging to my profession association (CNA) thay fights for my rights and safety at the bedside, such as title 22 which has staffed the ICU's in the state of california with a maxium 1:2 for 30 years, now we have new staffing ratio's to protect nurses in other areas of the hospital such as med-surg, were we loss the most nurses due to unsafe working conditions. I want to know what you anti-union nurses have done to promote improved working condition at your hospitals. Talk is cheap, we are responsible for our profession. In my last 12 years(Iam 53) of bedside nursing I will be the sweaky wheel that gets changes for the safety of my patients and bedside nurses. I know I can speak up with out fear of being fired because I have someone standing behind me all the way and that is my union the California Nurses Association.Quote from begalliWhile some of those who are against nursing unions do not support the work that unions do to ensure safer and more rewarding work environments for all nurses resulting in safer delivery of patient care, YOU reap those benefits as a non-union nurse as well. And if you're in the state of CA, there's NO WAY you can deny that.
Nursing unions, specifically the CNA, are getting and have gotten things done. Which cannot be said about other large organizations claiming to represent the recognition and betterment of professional nursing. In my opinion, I am sick and tired of reading blah, blah, blah about study after study of this and that problem in nursing by the talking nurse heads in our professional journals!
I come to these message boards and find hundreds upon thousands of posts by mistreated, unhappy bedside nurses. Last night I read an AJN that was filled to the brim with this problem in nursing to that problem in nursing saying we need to do this and that. How long has this been going on? What's been done to address these problems? To me, these representatives of nursing look FAR more whiney and embarressing than ANY nurse protesting for change. Big deal! They can do research. Can they evoke change?
Screw the political games! Lets get something done! Policies written about in our journals like Open Visitation in ICUs, for example, by nurses with a string of the alphabet following their names DOES NOT make for safer or more satisfied nurses or delivery of patient care. I want to be sure that when I or someone I know needs nursing care, they will get it from a nurse who has the TIME to provide this attention. I also expect nurses to be able to deliver this care.
I can say that I have had this experience first hand as a family member of a dying patient whose nurse was not available to be with the family because of her overwhelming patient load that day. It was gut wrenching for family and I'm sure it was gut wrenching for the nurse as well.
Nancy2 - I take exception and resent your generalization that unions promote "laziness and complacency." This is calling ME lazy and complacent. I'm proud to be an RN and take this responsibility very seriously.
I'm here, as well as thousands upon thousands of other nurses I'm sure, with ears and eyes wide open to listen to and implement ideas that will get the results that have been obtained by the CNA from those who disapprove of the way the CNA gets things done. How DO we do it your way?
I think sometimes people are so short-sighted when things are going well for them personally. This happens in ALL areas of life. We must look beyond the tip of our own noses in many situations. This is one of them.
Mar 9, '05Quote from mattsmom81And if one is a manager would you please say so and argue your point of view instead of simply cutting down the unions?My feelings: any nurse who doesn't believe mandating nurse patient ratios is good for the public and good for nursing is NOT a nurse. They are a manager first and foremost...
Mar 9, '05Quote from pabamickUnfortunately, as I posted recently on another thread, there are hospitals in CA whose ICUs choose to interpret Title 22 as 1 NURSE to 2 patients, NOT 1 RN to 2 patients. AB 394 clarifies the language--that is, mandates that a Registered Nurse---NOT an LVN--be responsible for no more than 2 patients in ICU.Not only does my union dues pay for collective bargaining( union workers make 15% more than nonunion workers by the way) it also covers belonging to my profession association (CNA) thay fights for my rights and safety at the bedside, such as title 22 which has staffed the ICU's in the state of california with a maxium 1:2 for 30 years, now we have new staffing ratio's to protect nurses in other areas of the hospital such as med-surg, were we loss the most nurses due to unsafe working conditions. I want to know what you anti-union nurses have done to promote improved working condition at your hospitals. Talk is cheap, we are responsible for our profession. In my last 12 years(Iam 53) of bedside nursing I will be the sweaky wheel that gets changes for the safety of my patients and bedside nurses. I know I can speak up with out fear of being fired because I have someone standing behind me all the way and that is my union the California Nurses Association.
I was auditing charts at a tiny desert facility (they had flunked a previous JCAHO inspection) up near Palm Springs where they were utilizing LVNs in ICU and stating that it was allowed "per Title 22--" when I objected, loudly, to nursing management, they told me scornfully that they didn't have to "go by anything put out by CNA." They often had only 1 RN to as many as 4 very sick ICU patients; when I was there, 2 were on vents and had many co-morbidities in addition to the reason for which they were in ICU. Management chose to simply ignore what was mandated by AB 394, and wanted their nurses (RNs and LVNs alike, who were mostly travelers; most of the staff had left) to believe that AB 394 was CNA propaganda. The travelers were afraid to speak up. The few remaining STAFF were afraid to speak up. If they had been CNA members, they would have had a voice to speak FOR them.
I hoped they flunked JCAHO this time around, too. Patient care was atrocious, and it was absolutely the fault of management, who refused to staff appropriately, according to AB 394 and according to patient accuity, which they did not utilize.
Mar 9, '05Quote from begalliHuh, every place I have worked in San Francisco or Oakland still has a lift team--but then, they are all CNA facilities.Stevierae - Unfortunately, Schwarzenegger vetoed AB 2532 - the lift-team bill. My hospital has had lift teams in the past and has a definite written policy and procedure for lifting. We are currently working on another plan to develop a lift team.
One of the most fun things to do is call certain lift team members into the room just before our patients wake up (in preparation for transport to PACU) and ask them to lift their shirts and show their 6-packs to all the admiring females (and some admiring males) in the room......but I digress.......
Oh, man....some of those guys could be movie stars...and most look a lot better than Arnold ever did in his own body builder days....
Mar 9, '05Quote from begalliAnd if one is a manager would you please say so and argue your point of view instead of simply cutting down the unions?
Not a manager . . .
I had to be dragged kicking and screaming into just being the ER nurse/supervisor occasionally . . . I do not have "manager-brain" . .I avoid all manner of management decisions at all costs :uhoh21:
When I work as the sup my major job is being the nurse in the ER. We have one ER RN, two EMT's and the doc. There are three beds.
Mar 10, '05Quote from Nancy2Deja Vous!!!!!!!!You are right about our need to look beyond the tip of our noses. Since you admire CNA so much, are you aware of their strategic plan of becoming the union for RNs across the country and PUSHING for Socialized Medicine here in the US? This is America, we have power to change things. If RNs from this site agreed on an issue and wrote letters to politicians, signed petitions, notified state agencies of unsafe conditions and organized ourselves without paying someone else to do it (which is only a fraction of what unions spend this money on) you would see change. Relying on someone else to "take care" of something that you could do yourself is lazy and complacent!
Where have I heard that before??? And in the same bold faced type?????
Mar 10, '05You know what I find interesting? If CA is such a great place to work because of the unions why is their nursing shortage worse than everywhere else? CA has 30% fewer nurses per capita than the national average. Something to think about for everyone that is so much "for unions"
Mar 10, '05Quote from stevielynnsteph.. :icon_hug: but, not because you are not a manager (just because).Not a manager . . .
Mar 10, '05Quote from ERNurse678First, it is an expensive state to live in.You know what I find interesting? If CA is such a great place to work because of the unions why is their nursing shortage worse than everywhere else? CA has 30% fewer nurses per capita than the national average. Something to think about for everyone that is so much "for unions"
Second, there are many older Americans/nonEnglish speaking immigrants/etc in certain areas. They drive the population up, and use many healthcare dollars/time. Yet very few of them work as nurses, as health, education, social issues provide a barrier. Thus many people needing healthcare plus fewer of the able to work as RNs equal shortage. The same issues affect Arizona and Florida disproportionately.
Third, the ratio has only been in force since 1/1/2004, and the crisis has been easing since then. Prior to that time, the hospital associations have been fighting tooth and nail against implementing it. They have been fighting against appropriate break coverage and RN vs LPN coverage. My friends that have worked in California (and left) can tell you about med/surg ratios of 1 licensed caregiver for 10 patients, RNs having to cover that load plus an LPNs, and never going to lunch because there was no one to cover their patients.
The initial ratio that the hospital associations proposed was 1:10, by the way.
The CNA has fought a long uphill battle for this. And the shortage is now easing, but it will take time for nurses to gain faith in California to do the right thing.
Especially with Ahnold in office.