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- Feb 14, '12 by CFitzRNNO, I'm not implying anything of the sort. There is absolutely ZERO correlation between your analogy and mine. Whatsoever. The fact you can't see that leads me to believe this is a futile exchange but I will try.
If someone has a disease and they choose not to receive treatment for it, it is a choice they make for their own life. There is not another human being in the balance. How could it be equal to murder? Who would be the murderer in that scenario?
As to your last paragraph; I so wish women would stop seeing their OWN offspring as a "me against an intruder" type of deal. "The rights of the mother trump the rights of the unborn fetus"?? Really? Since when did the innocent party in this scenario become the enemy? Did they ask to be conceived? What has happened in our culture to cause a woman to want to fight and kill her own offspring? It is a sickness that has pervaded almost every segment of our society. It is incredibly sad.
- Feb 14, '12 by nicurn001Using the logic expounded by CfitzRN , the executioner , is a murderer so should be executed as well , logically we must do away with the death penalty , which in any case being pro life I take it you support the abolition of the death sentence .
- Feb 14, '12 by PMFB-RNQuote from CFitzRN*** Your question is based on a false presuposition. Your question presumes that pregnant women choosing abortions, or to kill their baby is some how new, or unique to our culture. It is neither. The obvious answer to your question is of course "nothing".What has happened in our culture to cause a woman to want to fight and kill her own offspring? It is a sickness that has pervaded almost every segment of our society. It is incredibly sad.
For further reading:
Infanticide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
- Feb 14, '12 by PMFB-RNQuote from CFitzRN*** We, as a society do not, and never have, had the power or abiliety to prevent abortion on demand. We are in no position to "allow" or "disallow" abortion on demand and never have been.When we allow abortion on demand, .
What we as a society can decide is where such abortions will take place, who will preform them and to some degree limit the number preformed. Simply making something illegal does not eliminate it. Murder had been illegal for a long time and yet I reguarly hear about people commiting murder.
- Feb 14, '12 by needshaldolMaybe everyone here needs to agree to disagree? This is a touchy subject. But it comes down to the fact that the woman has the right to an abortion. Whether you agree or not, in this day and age it is important. Please Fitz do not compare this to someone being on trial for murdering a fetus. Makes no sense. We are talking about rights. An embryo has no rights. I wonder what you feel about "comfort care" which we know is often morphine drips being upped and upped. Are you against that also?
- Nicurn, you aren't expounding on my logic in the least. You are making a totally baseless assumption.
PMFB, I understand abortions are PERFORMED whether legal or not, but this does not even begin to address my questions about inherent value of human beings. Just because something is done anyway does not mean our nation should make it legal or advocate for it. That's just ridiculous.
Haldol, I never ONCE compared this to "someone being on trial for murdering a fetus" and I have no clue where you got that. ??? Do people actually read these posts?
To answer your question, if morphine is used SOLELY as a comfort measure to allow someone very near death some relief, I of course agree with that. It is when a nurse or a doctor decides the person is near enough to death to give them a lethal dose of morphine to stop respiration that I begin to have major issues. I have seen it happen many times and it is WRONG. It is a very gray area because the patient is so near death anyway, so it almost always goes unnoticed and would be impossible to prove. It is NOT a health care provider's right to knowingly administer an amount of morphine they know will stop respirations. Human beings deserve to die a natural death regardless of their disease process. I know it is tough to gauge the amount of morphine that will shut down respirations but I have witnessed hospice nurses knowingly give too much to "end the suffering." Again, NOT THEIR CALL.
- Feb 15, '12 by needshaldolWhat is wrong with ending someones suffering? Is it because it is "not natural"? If I am suffering and there is no chance of survival with some quality of life, please give me the morphine. Please do. Let someone be there holding my hand and some sweet quiet music and give me the morphine. I also want some lorazapam.
- That is called EUTHANASIA, and it is still (thank God) illegal in this country. I pray to God you are not a hospice nurse, or in any position to make this call for another human being. You have NO RIGHT to make this call. If someone has morphine as a comfort measure and they are not suffering, they do not need you to decide to end their life - for the love of all that's holy, are you serious?
- You have no idea what may be happening inside a patient's head. Yes, they are near death. And yes, it is humane to offer them comfort measures. But what if they're praying for past transgressions or remembering their childhood or thinking about their loved ones, and Nurse Haldol comes in and, in her almighty omniscience, decides the patient doesn't have any "quality of life" or reason to live, so she pulls the plug (lethal dose of morphine) before the patient was ready. You're telling me that's your call to make, really?
- Feb 15, '12 by needshaldolCFitz I did not say that at all. I said that if I am suffering and there is no chance, please help me endure the suffering with pain relief. I agree with you regarding Hospice at times. I have had bad experiences with Hospice. I believe that they serve a purpose but a little part of me believes that Hospice truly gets some sort of pleasure from their over drugging. Please any hospice nurse out there, I appreciate what you do for some but not for a lot. I want to stick to our thread and not go off on another subject.