Obamacare and Nursing.. what do you think? Obamacare and Nursing.. what do you think? - pg.9 | allnurses

Obamacare and Nursing.. what do you think? - page 9

I know that I am possibly opening up a can of ugly worms. I hope that in spite of differing opinions, that this thread can remain friendly and a simple exchange of ideas and opinions. As a... Read More

  1. Visit  MunoRN profile page
    Quote from Dewman
    It DOES "force" people to have insurance, or pay a penalty. Unless you are in one of the many groups which have been granted (temporary) exemptions from the penalty.

    But the penalty right now is minimal - so minimal in fact, that it is being ignored, or simply accepted because the penalty costs less than the insurance.
    I'd agree with you that the ACA is "fatally flawed" being that it relies on our already existing system which attempts (poorly) to reverse engineer a system that's designed to exclude people into a system that covers everyone.

    But as you correctly point out, the ACA doesn't actually force people to buy health insurance, or at least it doesn't do a very good job of it, and that it would probably work better if it actually did force everyone to take part.

    I think maybe you misunderstand how our current system works however. The price insurers charge isn't based on the assumption that everyone will pay into the system, it's based on the assumption that many people, particularly young people, won't actually sign up, so it doesn't make it any less sustainable when they don't. What it does do is make it more expensive for those who do sign up, which is potentially unsustainable but not in the way you imply.

    Quote from Dewman
    Another flaw is that even if implemented, it would flood the market with tens of millions of new customers, with no corresponding increase in the supplier base. Supply and demand dictates increased waiting times for scarce resources.
    Are you under the assumption that those who are now obtaining health insurance, who didn't have it before, never got sick before Obamacare? They've always gotten sick and they've always ended up in our hospitals, they only difference is now they're covered.
  2. Visit  toomuchbaloney profile page
    Quote from Dewman
    Well, since we're being political:
    Obamacare is fatally flawed by design. It is financially unsupportable, primarily because the "young immortals" who would pay premiums but not financially drain the system, are simply NOT signing up, BECAUSE they believe they are young and immortal, and simply don't need it.
    Also, the TRUTH does NOT become "myths and lies" just because you call it that.
    It is important to remember that the concept of the ACA is a conservative approach to the problem. It was born in The Heritage Foundation and trialed by a Republican governor on a state level.

    The "liberal" approach would be to consider single payer as a response to the problems in our unsustainable health care system.
  3. Visit  Dewman profile page
    "It is important to remember that the concept of the ACA is a conservative approach to the problem. It was born in The Heritage Foundation and trialed by a Republican governor on a state level."

    I'm sorry, but none of this is true.
    You are repeating a overused talking point that claims that Obamacare is simply a national version of Massachusetts plan developed during the tenure of then-governor Mitt Romney - often referred to as Romneycare.

    Obamacare is NOT Romneycare writ large, and it is CERTAINLY not conservative. Although to be fair, it is not as liberal an approach as government single-payer. Those in power realized that the country would balk at government single-payer. So Obamacare's principal value is as a vehicle to single-payer.

    Once Obamacare destroys the private insurance sector, and then financially collapses as designed, the public will clamor for government to implement single-payer. IOW, the public will want the government to solve a problem that the government created in the first place.

    Single-payer may or may not be a good idea on its own merits. Personally, I think SOME form of it will be someday adopted, since it DOES have some merits, and other countries have implemented forms of it with varying success.

    But using Obamacare as a back-door way of getting there is dishonest.
  4. Visit  toomuchbaloney profile page
    Quote from Dewman
    "It is important to remember that the concept of the ACA is a conservative approach to the problem. It was born in The Heritage Foundation and trialed by a Republican governor on a state level."

    I'm sorry, but none of this is true.
    You are repeating a overused talking point that claims that Obamacare is simply a national version of Massachusetts plan developed during the tenure of then-governor Mitt Romney - often referred to as Romneycare.

    Obamacare is NOT Romneycare writ large, and it is CERTAINLY not conservative. Although to be fair, it is not as liberal an approach as government single-payer. Those in power realized that the country would balk at government single-payer. So Obamacare's principal value is as a vehicle to single-payer.

    Once Obamacare destroys the private insurance sector, and then financially collapses as designed, the public will clamor for government to implement single-payer. IOW, the public will want the government to solve a problem that the government created in the first place.

    Single-payer may or may not be a good idea on its own merits. Personally, I think SOME form of it will be someday adopted, since it DOES have some merits, and other countries have implemented forms of it with varying success.

    But using Obamacare as a back-door way of getting there is dishonest.
    You are certainly allowed your own opinions about the ACA but not your own facts.
    http://The-irony-of-Republican-disapproval-of-Obamacare
    How the Heritage Foundation, a Conservative Think Tank, Promoted the Individual Mandate - Forbes

    It may be a fear that the ACA is a backdoor attempt to achieve single payer but that is simply a conservative fear with little basis in reality. The ACA was an attempt to actually achieve some measure of reform to a system that was/is not sustainable without reform. The ACA was promoted as a way to discover bipartisan support given the conservative origins of the mandate concept. No one was prepared for the "all in" republican opposition to anything and everything related to the Obama presidency from day one. No liberal or progressive was apparently aware that the republican leadership of the Congress would be willing to harm the country and the citizens in order to damage the legacy of a president that they disapprove of.
  5. Visit  laborer profile page
    ... will you stop your BS and move on please
  6. Visit  nurseprnRN profile page
    Quote from Dewman
    Well, since we're being political:
    Obamacare is fatally flawed by design. It is financially unsupportable, primarily because the "young immortals" who would pay premiums but not financially drain the system, are simply NOT signing up, BECAUSE they believe they are young and immortal, and simply don't need it.
    Also, the TRUTH does NOT become "myths and lies" just because you call it that.

    You probably also missed the part where young people are signing up for insurance.
  7. Visit  Dewman profile page
    "You are certainly allowed your own opinions about the ACA but not your own facts."

    This cliche' is what people say when they want to infer that OTHER'S opinions are baseless, but THEIR opinions AREN'T.

    That you are in the tank for the current president is obvious.

    No further comment is necessary.
    Last edit by Dewman on Jul 16, '14
  8. Visit  Dewman profile page
    I didn't miss anything of the sort.
    Most young people AREN'T signing up.
  9. Visit  toomuchbaloney profile page
    Quote from Dewman
    "You are certainly allowed your own opinions about the ACA but not your own facts."

    This cliche' is what people say when they want to infer that OTHER'S opinions are baseless, but THEIR opinions AREN'T.

    That you are in the tank for the current president is obvious.

    No further comment is necessary.
    It doesn't matter to me if you assume that I am some sort of Obamabot...you clearly are in the habit of ignoring facts as evidenced by your refusal to consider the conservative origins of the ACA. Even when presented with evidence from a typically accepted source (Forbes) you ignore facts and make your comment personal. This is not about whether or not my opinions are more valuable than yours, it is about basing one's opinions upon falsehoods and then insisting that they actually have validity, as you have done with your opinions about the ACA.

    Perhaps you could support your opinions and comments with some sources which verify their accuracy.

    More than 1 million young people (18-34) have signed up for the ACA to date. Many others opted to stay on their parents health insurance plan while they are of an appropriate age to do so. It is interesting that some of the conservative propaganda surrounding the ACA contributes to the overall ignorance of consumers relative to the exchanges, the subsidies, and how the mandate works; which in turn contributes to reluctance of some to engage the system.
    Low ACA Knowledge And Health Literacy Hinder Young Adult Marketplace Enrollment - Health Affairs Blog
  10. Visit  nurseprnRN profile page
    With an estimated 4.7 million losing their plans, and many switching plans, some argue that the ACA did more plan switching than insuring the uninsured. But the fact is the uninsured is down from a high 18% to an impressive 13.4%. This new low uninsured rate is aided by the fact that nearly 6 out of 10 of the 8 million who enrolled in the marketplace were previously uninsured. Most of them hadn't had insurance in the past two years.
    New Kaiser Survey of People with Non-Group Insurance Finds Nearly Six in 10 People Enrolled in Marketplace Plans Were Previously Uninsured | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation



    WASHINGTON — Health insurance premiums went up an average of 10% a year in the three years before the Affordable Care Act was enacted, a report released today finds.
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/06/05/premiums-grew-average-of-10-before-affordable-care-act/9960093/

    Here are some additional sign up statistics about the number of uninsured from a July study by the Commonwealth Fund. This data looks at open enrollment only (unlike total numbers which take into account all ACA related sign ups since it was signed into law). Notice that their data for uninsured rate is a few points higher both before and after the ACA then the April Gallup study.
    • The uninsured rate for people ages 19 to 64 declined from 20 percent in the July-to-September 2013 period to 15 percent in the April-to-June 2014 period.
    • An estimated 9.5 million fewer adults were uninsured during the above period. Young men and women drove a large part of the decline: the uninsured rate for 19-to-34-year-olds declined from 28 percent to 18 percent, with an estimated 5.7 million fewer young adults uninsured.
    • By June, 60 percent of adults with new coverage through the marketplaces or Medicaid reported they had visited a doctor or hospital or filled a prescription; of these, 62 percent said they could not have accessed or afforded this care previously.
    Gaining Ground: Americans' Health Insurance Coverage and Access to Care After the Affordable Care Act's First Open Enrollment Period - The Commonwealth Fund
  11. Visit  Dewman profile page
    "...I am some sort of Obamabot..."

    If the shoe fits...

    I am not the one who started with the political slander in this convo. If you want a factual, non-biased discussion, then remain factual and non-biased yourself.
    Last edit by Dewman on Jul 16, '14
  12. Visit  toomuchbaloney profile page
    Quote from Dewman
    "...I am some sort of Obamabot..."

    If the shoe fits...

    I am not the one who started with the political slant in this convo. If you want a factual, non-biased discussion, then remain factual and non-biased yourself.
    In case you haven't noticed, this thread is not about me and is not about Obama and is not about liberals...it is about the ACA.

    I do want a factual discussion which is why some of your statements have been challenged. It is one thing to state something as your opinion or your POV and quite another to state something as if it is factual and represents something other than just your opinion or POV. For instance, you may state that you don't believe that the ACA was based upon a conservative design and approach, but if you want to state that it was not IN FACT born out of the Heritage Foundation it would be adviseable to support that with a link or two (preferrably to something other than an opinion column or blog). Similarly, you may believe that young adults are not signing up for the ACA and it is okay for you to have that opinion but not okay to state that as fact without providing some supporting evidence.
  13. Visit  Esme12 profile page
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