Obamacare and Nursing.. what do you think?

[OKNurse2be]

I know that I am possibly opening up a can of ugly worms. I hope that in spite of differing opinions, that this thread can remain friendly and a simple exchange of ideas and opinions.

As a beginning nursing student, I am being told that there is this looming nursing shortage and that there is great job security. A little research on my own shows me that in my particular state, there definitely is a decent population of still practicing nurses who are 60 years and older who will be retiring soon, which would open up the way for us who are just getting started. More and more emphasis is also being put on the new healthcare law and how it will open the doors for more people to access medical care which again will increase the need for staffing.

I grew up in a country with a socialistic government, which also includes healthcare for everyone. I have seen how the hospitals are understaffed, and you are lucky if you get to spend 5 minutes with your physician, and you are not in control over which healthcare facility you can go to. I know that the new bill isn't necessarily socialistic, but there are socialistic principles in it.

As a nursing student, I can't help but wonder how this is going to affect my future as a nurse. I know that nurses talk among themselves and things trickle down from above onto the floors. Nothing is going to keep me from becoming a nurse. I am not in it for the money, but rather I feel somehow "called." However, I believe that it's good to be prepared for times ahead so that I can adjust accordingly.

How do you think that Obamacare is going to affect how care is delivered?

By the way, this is NOT a homework assignment of any kind. I am merely looking for for a friendly exchange of ideas and opinions.

[pmabraham, BSN, RN]

Good day, toomuchbaloney:

"I will be as bothered by these "lies" and the passage of a conservative fix to the health crisis "

What healthcare crisis? The # of ER visits Obamacare was supposed to lower, but doesn't?

Affordable healthcare insurance that isn't affordable through Obamacare unless you qualify for subsidies? Even then, the person may not be able to afford the extremely high deductibles.

The idea that healthcare insurance doesn't mean healthcare access? I.e. the healthcare provides do not have to (in a free country) accept any insurance no matter the insurance company.

goes over the conservative fixes, all of which the Democrat controlled Senate rejected. Furthermore, Dr. Carson offered a number of viable fixes that would work, but President Obama and the democrats don't listen.

"The ACA is an insurance reform which was based in a very conservative notion that all people should be mandated to obtain health insurance."

NO, that is not a conservative notion. Freedom = conservative notion. Oh, add to the lies of Obama stating it is not a tax for the penalty... but then it is a tax.

If you want conservative notions, here is a small, non inclusive list:

* Freedom of choice -- which includes the freedom to NOT have insurance

* Free markets without anyone picking winners or losers other than actual consumers

* Competition across state lines

* Torte reform

* Health savings accounts

BTW, if you look at how much money was spent on the Obamacare Website (still not complete), promoting Obamacare, having VA works work on Obamacare issues vs. taking care of patients, etc. and divide that money up among the legal approximate 320 million Americans, and you have several million dollars per American to go into a health savings account. Then a person has real choice for how they spend the money they were given... and it is once and one except for many new legal Americans who never had $ put into it.

Part of the reason why you don't have cooperation is that it is hard to have a relationship with anyone who is a habitual liar who cannot be trusted. No relation, no reason to compromise or cooperate. And when you have people who don't care that the President and democrats lied to pass a 100% partisan bill that will harm our country, there's even greater reason to stand firm rather than "cooperate." Honesty and integrity do need to matter, always.

Thank you.

[Dewman]

Absolutely correct, pmabraham, on all counts.

[toomuchbaloney]

Good day, toomuchbaloney:

What healthcare crisis? The # of ER visits Obamacare was supposed to lower, but doesn't? Are you really unaware of the unsustainable nature of our for profit health system? Is it true that you are unaware that the US health system is the most expensive in the world with some of the worst health outcomes?

Affordable healthcare insurance that isn't affordable through Obamacare unless you qualify for subsidies? Even then, the person may not be able to afford the extremely high deductibles. Are you really unaware that millions of people received health insurance rebates and have lower monthly premiums secondary to the ACA? Are you aware that many people prior to the ACA paid top dollar for health insurance that was essentially junk with enormous deductibles and copays and no preventative care coverage?

The idea that healthcare insurance doesn't mean healthcare access? I.e. the healthcare provides do not have to (in a free country) accept any insurance no matter the insurance company. Are you aware that uninsured people have a very difficult time acquiring a primary care health provider and may not be able to access specialty care at all? Are you aware that most medical providers participate with health insurance companies that also participate in the ACA exchanges? Are you advocating that medical providers be required to participate with insurers in the area?

goes over the conservative fixes, all of which the Democrat controlled Senate rejected. Furthermore, Dr. Carson offered a number of viable fixes that would work, but President Obama and the democrats don't listen.

"The ACA is an insurance reform which was based in a very conservative notion that all people should be mandated to obtain health insurance."

NO, that is not a conservative notion. Freedom = conservative notion. Oh, add to the lies of Obama stating it is not a tax for the penalty... but then it is a tax. The notion of the individual mandate was a conservative idea, ask Newt, ask Romney, ask Forbes. The Heritage Foundation is trying hard to distance itself from the ACA, but it really is not difficult to connect the dots. Unless one is not interested in the truth relative to that issue.

If you want conservative notions, here is a small, non inclusive list:

* Freedom of choice -- which includes the freedom to NOT have insurance Freedom to be subjected to unnecessary lady partsl ultrasounds when seeking reproductive care that offends conservative legislators. Freedom to NOT have Medicaid in your Republican controlled states. Freedom from the ability to utilize your health insurance to purchase some contraceptives because your conservative boss is offended by your choice.

* Free markets without anyone picking winners or losers other than actual consumers A free republican health care market where the losers are anyone who is poor and cannot afford the escalating cost increases in a for profit health care system. The actual consumers then are those who have insurance or the financial means to purchase whatever care they prefer to have.

* Competition across state lines Provided by the ACA

* Torte reform Puts caps on what a victim may obtain from a negligent or malpracticing health provider. It has not reduced costs in any remarkable measureable (maybe a 0.1% reduction) fashion in Texas where it has been enacted.

* Health savings accounts HSA have been around for quite awhile now, they have not slowed the exponential growth of health care costs, they have not saved folks from medical bankruptcy, and they have not replaced a need for further reform to the system.

BTW, if you look at how much money was spent on the Obamacare Website (still not complete), promoting Obamacare, having VA works work on Obamacare issues vs. taking care of patients, etc. and divide that money up among the legal approximate 320 million Americans, and you have several million dollars per American to go into a health savings account. Then a person has real choice for how they spend the money they were given... and it is once and one except for many new legal Americans who never had $ put into it.

Part of the reason why you don't have cooperation is that it is hard to have a relationship with anyone who is a habitual liar who cannot be trusted. No relation, no reason to compromise or cooperate. And when you have people who don't care that the President and democrats lied to pass a 100% partisan bill that will harm our country, there's even greater reason to stand firm rather than "cooperate." Honesty and integrity do need to matter, always.

Thank you.

While I an appreciate your opinion about Obama specifically and you consider that all blame for lack of cooperation falls at his feet I will respectfully disagree. It is sort of hard to blame Obama exclusively when Senator McConnell pointed out plainly that they (Congressional republicans) would not be working with the POTUS on legislation, rather they would be working to insure that the POTUS was viewed as a failure. It is hard to blame Obama for wasting millions of dollars on government shutdowns, repeated votes to repeal a law, multiple re-investigations of Benghazi when republicans have boasted about the success of these activities.

Republicans have offered legislation more than 50 times to either repeal or reform the ACA. Most were designed to gut or kill the legislation or to eliminate some critical portion of the law. It is rather foolish to expect that the POTUS would sign any offerrings that are so obvious in intent to kill the law, in my view. It is sort of sad to take a peek at this list.

http://the-house-has-voted-54-times-in-four-years-on-obamacare-heres-the-full-list

[Dewman]

Pmabraham: Did you ever notice how some people are so deep in the tank, that sunlight cannot penetrate to them?

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

MODERATOR NOTE:

This thread is about how the ACA will affect nursing.

If you wish to debate politics please start a thread in the breakroom.

[SC_RNDude]

Conservatives frequently make the argument that Obamacare wasn't the right way to do it, the evidence for that argument is what the better way or ways would be, which I have yet to hear a conservative argument address. The alternative ideas tend to be as different from Obamacare as 6 is different from half-a-dozen.

As the post below yours points out there has been plenty of ideas for healthcare reform discussed by conservatives.

Whereas, the only idea liberals like to discuss is how to have people depend on government for their healthcare.

You and I have had a pages long discussion on alternative ideas.

You may not agree with the alternatives (as I believe you favor single-payer, for which we are currently headed for), but let's not pretend you haven't heard of any.

[tntrn, ASN, RN]

And then there is the very (un)cooperative Harry Reid, who just plain refuses to bring any of the GOP bills passed in the House to the Senate to even debate. Yep, there is so much cooperation with those Democrats.

[pmabraham, BSN, RN]

Good day:

As it relates to healthcare including nursing, as Obamacare is a 100% partisan sold on a lie (see

for starters) where health insurance does not equate to healthcare access, it is reasonable that there are going to be changes in healthcare. You have more and more doctors dropping out of the system, and nurse practitioners are becoming more and more popular; and, there's a push to have NP's and related being able to practice as a doctor under their own license.

As the liberals continue to push their pro death agenda, you are going to see more and more nurses fired for standing up for their faith/religious beliefs when they refuse to participate in murdering an innocent baby. New Jersey Nurses Threatened with Job Loss for Refusing to Assist in Abortions | SBA-List and Hospital Tried to Force Nurses' Help in Abortion | National Review Online for example (please note I'm not stating these are Obamacare related, but as Obama and the democrats push abortion through Obamacare and other venues, it will most likely become more prevalent).

As the lies that sold Obamacare continue to be proliferated with money not growing on trees, our national deficit will continue to expand as our country is not living within its means, and sooner or later, there's going to be a downfall of our country. For those that don't know, the CBO stopped scoring Obamacare. See GAO Report: Obamacare Adds $6.2 Trillion to Long-Term Deficit | National Review Online , Social Security Institute | CBO: Obamacare Would Increase National Debt, Spend Medicare 'Savings' (btw, another Obama lie that Obamacare would be deficit neutral).

Thankfully we do have a number who are using their freedom to rebel such as The Voice of Hippocratic Medicine in America | , We Stand FIRM , and others who believe honesty, integrity (review the posts for those that review to discuss the lies that sold Obamacare - does that mean they are ok with being dishonest and lacking integrity; I don't know, but it does raise the question as to the value of telling the truth to sell something vs. lying about it), and freedom matters to try and promote change.

As it has been shared over and over again, the Democrat controlled senate has blocked every conservative measure for change; so it is a straw person argument stating the conservatives don't care or don't have any ideas to for positive improvement. President threatens to veto, democrat controlled senate refuses to bring up things for a vote... then either lie or be ignorant about the facts the conservatives have spoken, have tried, and continue to try to resolve the problems created by a 100% partisan bill sold on lies.

Thank you.

[LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN]

MODERATOR NOTE:

This thread is about how the ACA will affect nursing.

If you wish to debate politics please start a thread in the breakroom.

...and it seems as though no one wants to listen.

It will be a shame that this thread would have to be shut down because of it too.

[Not_A_Hat_Person, RN]

Good day:

As it relates to healthcare including nursing, as Obamacare is a 100% partisan sold on a lie (see

for starters) where health insurance does not equate to healthcare access, it is reasonable that there are going to be changes in healthcare. You have more and more doctors dropping out of the system, and nurse practitioners are becoming more and more popular; and, there's a push to have NP's and related being able to practice as a doctor under their own license.

More NPs would be a good thing for nursing. If significant numbers of MDs refuse to accept Obamacare, NPs will get a chance to show what they can really do.

[Dewman]

Perhaps. But as an increasing amount of primary care is transferred to NPs, they will begin to experience the same kind of problems that lead to physicians' refusing to accept Obamacare - ever-increasing paperwork costs, ever-increasing Liability Insurance costs, and ever-increasing legal costs, all in the face of ever-DECREASING compensation from the third-party entity that regulates that compensation - in this case, the government.

That said, I think that many areas of primary care CAN and SHOULD be handled by NPs. It's cost effective (for now, at least), and from a selfish standpoint, it elevates the status of my chosen profession, nursing.

At any rate, it's already happening, and will continue to do so, Obamacare or not.

[MunoRN, RN]

And then there is the very (un)cooperative Harry Reid, who just plain refuses to bring any of the GOP bills passed in the House to the Senate to even debate. Yep, there is so much cooperation with those Democrats.

The GOP has passed fixes to Obamacare in the house?